>SOTO Weapon Master should give offhand weapons burst skills<

[someguy.4107]

Torch- "Sundering Leap" animation towards an enemy to plunge your torch in the Earth creating flame geysers for up to 5 targets. (Flame geysers: 240 radius, last 3secs, leave fire fields and pulse burning every second.)

Pistol- Fire a Scorpio wire to pull you and the enemy closer hitting them with a reloading strike. Reload pistol ammo based on the adrenaline spent. Can "Overload" pistol ammo stacks. (Single target. Pull yourself if the Scorpio wire hits terrain)

Dagger- Spin to strike foes while evading. Evading projectiles reflects them. (1sec spin-to-win & 5 target)

Warhorn- Sound Reveille breaking stun, granting stability, cleansing 1 condition and healing yourself & allies. (Channel Reveille for 3secs pulsing the effects 3 times. One pulse per second. 1sec stabilities) (Play different parts of the song Reveille in game for the channel)

Mace- Shatter the terrain with unyielding force. (300 radius, 2sec knockdown, 5 stacks of confusion. 5 targets)

Shield- Strike foes with your shield building momentum. Enhances Shield Bash on hit. (Leap range per strike 240, strike twice, 5 targets. Enhanced Shield Bash launches 5 targets 240 range.)

Sword- Brace your stance to hurl your sword at a foe knocking them off their feet. If knocked down, pull the sword through hemorrhaging & weakening them. (Single target knockdown 2sec, 2 stacks of bleed on throw/ Pulling inflicts 6 stacks of bleed, and 3sec of weakness) (I know it's another sword 4 impale/rip, but throwing swords is fun.)

Axe- Bring down the axe with a great vertical cleave bleeding and slowing your foe. (Single target, 4 stacks of bleed and 3sec of slow)

I'd love to see more burst skills for warrior. SOTO beta showed just how lacking offhand weapons can be for warrior. Hopefully the concept of offhand burst skills will be added in the future :j

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

I find that to be a bandaid fix for what is a core problem on Warrior's design:

Bursts should work like Guardian's Virtues: They should be long cooldown attacks that should be an "i win" button or at least a extremely strong ability that puts the Warrior in winning state enough that they are able to deal with their depleted Adrenaline. Warriors should get stronger as the fight gets longer as their adrenaline raises, and the way to deal with them should be by kiting and condi or spike damage.

Instead, the design of Warrior right now is having extremely weak or mediocre weapons that are balanced around their Bursts being core part of their rotations. In a game where active defense is so prevalent that connecting a melee hit is harder than finding Nemo.

Personally, my way of fixing it would be to make the Adrenaline-Burst mechanic similar to the Morale mechanic in Warhammer: RoR - You basically gain Morale as you fight slowly. You then free up levels of morale that allow you access to specific skills, up to 4 levels, and the last level is a massively powerful skill.

I would buff all Warrior weapons to make them strong standing alone. I would then proceed to make Adrenaline raise slowly in combat, but also deplete slowly out of combat. I would make so level 1/2/3 bursts were graduately powerful skills with level 3 being on level of Elite skills, or even beyond, but they also would take massive ammounts of Adrenaline to get there. They would basically be Ultimates, again, similar to how Guardian Virtues work. I would rework all Adrenaline traits to make it benefit you within your level of Adrenaline, instead of when you use a Burst, unless it was a interesting interaction.

Bear in mind, this is a personal view of mine, but i don't believe Adrenaline or Bursts should be spammable skills but instead long CD skills with extremely strong effects, for instance i would make Eviscerate create a shockwave of lava that damages everything in a line behind the target hit as the Warrior splits the very earth below his feet and his rage effects even the elements. I would make Earthshaker create a massive quake in the area, crippling people and knocking them down. I would switch Final Thrust with Flurry and i would make Final Thrust, now the Burst, a "charge in a line" execute move that instantly kills/downs everyone below 15% hp or doing massive damage to everyone below 50% as the warrior charges forward, sword in thrusting motion.

But history has a tendency of repeating itself, and here we are, pretending we can compete with our mere outdated weapons on a world of blue fire, pink illusion and green nature magic.

[someguy.4107]

3 minutes ago, Shadowpeixera.2918 said:

I find that to be a bandaid fix for what is a core problem on Warrior's design:

Bursts should work like Guardian's Virtues: They should be long cooldown attacks that should be an "i win" button or at least a extremely strong ability that puts the Warrior in winning state enough that they are able to deal with their depleted Adrenaline. Warriors should get stronger as the fight gets longer as their adrenaline raises, and the way to deal with them should be by kiting and condi or spike damage.

Instead, the design of Warrior right now is having extremely weak or mediocre weapons that are balanced around their Bursts being core part of their rotations. In a game where active defense is so prevalent that connecting a melee hit is harder than finding Nemo.

Personally, my way of fixing it would be to make the Adrenaline-Burst mechanic similar to the Morale mechanic in Warhammer: RoR - You basically gain Morale as you fight slowly. You then free up levels of morale that allow you access to specific skills, up to 4 levels, and the last level is a massively powerful skill.

I would buff all Warrior weapons to make them strong standing alone. I would then proceed to make Adrenaline raise slowly in combat, but also deplete slowly out of combat. I would make so level 1/2/3 bursts were graduately powerful skills with level 3 being on level of Elite skills, or even beyond, but they also would take massive ammounts of Adrenaline to get there. They would basically be Ultimates, again, similar to how Guardian Virtues work. I would rework all Adrenaline traits to make it benefit you within your level of Adrenaline, instead of when you use a Burst, unless it was a interesting interaction.

Bear in mind, this is a personal view of mine, but i don't believe Adrenaline or Bursts should be spammable skills but instead long CD skills with extremely strong effects, for instance i would make Eviscerate create a shockwave of lava that damages everything in a line behind the target hit as the Warrior splits the very earth below his feet and his rage effects even the elements. I would make Earthshaker create a massive quake in the area, crippling people and knocking them down. I would switch Final Thrust with Flurry and i would make Final Thrust, now the Burst, a "charge in a line" execute move that instantly kills/downs everyone below 15% hp or doing massive damage to everyone below 50% as the warrior charges forward, sword in thrusting motion.

But history has a tendency of repeating itself, and here we are, pretending we can compete with our mere outdated weapons on a world of blue fire, pink illusion and green nature magic.

Thank you for taking time to put all this thought into your reply :j I'd love to have a sword burst that jets you forward like Stinger from DMC!

   I do disagree with you though. Warrior burst skills cannot be on long cooldown due to there only being one button. Only having the one button means that offense, defense and/or utility is tied to it. Every traitline alters the burst skill in those ways. Core warriors problem is that the burst "options" haven't been updated with the times. Some bursts have aged very well. Continuing to cover options like closing gaps, setting up longer combos or finishing lower health opponents. While others don't have the damage, mobility or utility for a modern GW2. This applies to weapon skills too. 

The problem I'm hoping to address is the lack of impactful options some offhand warrior weapons have. Take torch for example. Torch is only a vehicle for greater damage due to King of Fires procs in the Berserker line. Without King of Fires, torch doesn't do a lot aside from a moving fire field and some condi cleanse. If you attach a burst skill to cover the lacking damage and utility, then torch becomes a more appealing option to take. The rest of the recommendations are the same. Help damage connect, give mobility to the profession that doesn't have teleports and synergize the offhand weapons with other traitlines and themselves.

[GigityCat.7529]

Interesting idea, & I like the suggestions put forth. I like this as a compromise for not getting core Gunsaber (probably) or if the use of a burst skill: main or off fits with your adrenaline consumption method: i.e. all for core/zerker & 1 bar for core. Hell, it could even be "activated" by the useless arms Grandmaster Dual Wielding similar to how Zerker can cancel their Zerk Mode selectively now.

It's an interesting starting idea however I don't know how practical it would be to implement because:

1) 2-H weapons would need something if it wasn't trait-specifc. Maybe charges or reduced adrenaline use on their bursts or something.

2) You'd have to develop Primal Bursts for off-weapons and balance whatever implementation 2Hs get (see above ^)

3) Bladesworn would need something. At that point you'd have about 4 trade-offs by equipping it. So unless you really just liked doing 1m+ dmg in PvE I think it would be tragically even more useless and less fun than it already is.

I like the idea & effort tho! Warrior definately needs something to modernize it & bring it out of 2013. Personally I think they should just fix literally all of the useless traits & the fact that compared to other professions nearly every weapon skill either sucks, doesn't land, only hits 1 target, or all 3 of the above. Then I'll know they've started to at least pretend to give a kitten about Warrior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

If you are doing OH bursts, then you'd need to give 2H weapons a second burst. I posted the idea several times in the past, even as a new mechanic for elite spec concepts called Tactical Bursts.

[Shadowpeixera.2918]

11 hours ago, someguy.4107 said:

Thank you for taking time to put all this thought into your reply :j I'd love to have a sword burst that jets you forward like Stinger from DMC!

   I do disagree with you though. Warrior burst skills cannot be on long cooldown due to there only being one button. Only having the one button means that offense, defense and/or utility is tied to it. Every traitline alters the burst skill in those ways. Core warriors problem is that the burst "options" haven't been updated with the times. Some bursts have aged very well. Continuing to cover options like closing gaps, setting up longer combos or finishing lower health opponents. While others don't have the damage, mobility or utility for a modern GW2. This applies to weapon skills too. 

The problem I'm hoping to address is the lack of impactful options some offhand warrior weapons have. Take torch for example. Torch is only a vehicle for greater damage due to King of Fires procs in the Berserker line. Without King of Fires, torch doesn't do a lot aside from a moving fire field and some condi cleanse. If you attach a burst skill to cover the lacking damage and utility, then torch becomes a more appealing option to take. The rest of the recommendations are the same. Help damage connect, give mobility to the profession that doesn't have teleports and synergize the offhand weapons with other traitlines and themselves.

Having bursts as part of the core rotation and not as additional power is one of the reasons why the weapons themselves aren't buffed by Anet. And when the burst falls apart, the entire weapon falls apart on that spec, like the Arc Divider change.

Just adding more bursts and more buttons won't do anything besides making Warrior a harder class to play to achieve the same ammount of effectiveness that a Guardian achieves. We wouldn't have a problem with Bursts being long cooldowns and only one button if the weapon skills themselves were worth a kitten.

Warrior's main problem is being stuck in 2012. Other games don't have that problem, and it's not a issue to take a look at them for inspiration. Trying to solve everything in a vacuum, looking only at the state ot the game and pretending everything else doesn't exist is a very Anet/Blizzard thing to do, and generates the problems we have right now, like most of the game revolving about Quick/Alac upkeep when in any other MMO, a buff that would increase your dps by that much would be a long CD Bloodlust.

I do agree that bursts require updating, but that's not just them. The entirety of Warrior requires updating, and having wapon rotations tied to burst are what make Anet always look at adrenaline and burst first and skills last. Their weapons need to be stronger by themselves, not hostage to the burst mechanic, and Adrenaline should be a resource that turns you more dangerous as you gain it, not a resource that makes you a incomplete class as you lose it.

Edit: If we're going with your idea, then here's my suggestion. Warriors should get a similar version of the Thief 3rd slot skill change, since we're the weaponmaster class. It would make sense for us to use specific combos for specific results.

That could be our secondary burst, having a specific skill for Sword+Mace/Mace+Sword/Axe+Shield, etc etc. It would both create a more interesting ground for buildcraft, and it would force Anet to update all the weapons to 2023 to make them usable with their newfound bursts. Twohanded weapons also get their specific new burst.

Else we'll still have the same problem of everyone using OH Axe/Dagger/Torch only.

Edited July 3, 2023 by Shadowpeixera.2918

[someguy.4107]

15 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If you are doing OH bursts, then you'd need to give 2H weapons a second burst. I posted the idea several times in the past, even as a new mechanic for elite spec concepts called Tactical Bursts.

Two bursts for all warrior weapons would be fantastic. Core just needs more options to keep up with the modern game. Hammer's second burst would be Banish from Guardian hammer ^^ Wouldn't have to make more skills for Berserker, SpellBreaker or Bladesworn, as those already offer unique offense, defense and utility.

[someguy.4107]

23 hours ago, GigityCat.7529 said:

Interesting idea, & I like the suggestions put forth. I like this as a compromise for not getting core Gunsaber (probably) or if the use of a burst skill: main or off fits with your adrenaline consumption method: i.e. all for core/zerker & 1 bar for core. Hell, it could even be "activated" by the useless arms Grandmaster Dual Wielding similar to how Zerker can cancel their Zerk Mode selectively now.

It's an interesting starting idea however I don't know how practical it would be to implement because:

1) 2-H weapons would need something if it wasn't trait-specifc. Maybe charges or reduced adrenaline use on their bursts or something.

2) You'd have to develop Primal Bursts for off-weapons and balance whatever implementation 2Hs get (see above ^)

3) Bladesworn would need something. At that point you'd have about 4 trade-offs by equipping it. So unless you really just liked doing 1m+ dmg in PvE I think it would be tragically even more useless and less fun than it already is.

I like the idea & effort tho! Warrior definately needs something to modernize it & bring it out of 2013. Personally I think they should just fix literally all of the useless traits & the fact that compared to other professions nearly every weapon skill either sucks, doesn't land, only hits 1 target, or all 3 of the above. Then I'll know they've started to at least pretend to give a kitten about Warrior.

Thanks for the time and effort in your response ^^

   These offhand bursts shouldn't be tied to one traitline, because all of warrior's traits alter/enhance burst skills in unique ways. No need to change roots that deep in how warrior works. I don't think offhand bursts would need to be made for any of the elite specs either due to each of them adding offense, defense and utility in their own ways. Core needs the extra tools to keep up with other professions in my eyes. Adrenaline management wouldn't need to be changed due to the adrenaline building traits excelling in that area already (Wish "Furious" had something appealing for power builds though). Big RIP we didn't get Gunsaber for other specs lol Primal Dragon Triggers when?

   As for implementation, I believe the hardest part would be repurposing skills not on warrior to warrior. New animations would be cool, but I know that's time, money and effort. All those attacks could just be reskinned with a different flashy animation effect. The torch one could use Sundering Leap animation with elementalist lava font AoEs at the end. 

   I know none of these are ever making it into the game. Like to offer solutions to problems I see :j I don't know if they're the correct solutions, but they should be fun ones.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 hours ago, someguy.4107 said:

Two bursts for all warrior weapons would be fantastic. Core just needs more options to keep up with the modern game. Hammer's second burst would be Banish from Guardian hammer ^^ Wouldn't have to make more skills for Berserker, SpellBreaker or Bladesworn, as those already offer unique offense, defense and utility.

Go dig up one of my old threads on the topic and see what I did. There is one from a few months ago about adding F2s to core where I copy and pasted from my espec idea threads.