Don't be mad when ele outskills you.

[Flowki.7194]

12 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 hmm i mean i can't Play ele cause i never tryed it also I do not like the class. But as mutch as i hear even from some ele Mains. The class is actually hard to learn but once you get it its Just litterly god Mode rn xd

The same is said about chrono and untamed, some say its easy, some say its hard. I've never played either spec but I tend to think where there is smoke there is fire. Ele, chrono and untamed are difficult classes/specs. From the classes I have played, condi/power necro, zerker/SB, Hollow/scrapper, all revenent. Of those, support vindi has been the hardest, but not as hard as power cata. Seems to me people equate effectiveness with difficulty way too much in this playerbase; If its not effective ''its hard to play'' if its effective ''its easy to play''. For example, core ele is moderatly hard to learn, and only moderately effective even if you are really good. Power necro is easy to learn, yet more effective than core ele, being why you see so many power necros compared to core eles.

 

On the other hand I played some core ele with the new signet build and its a lot more effective, but it still seriously lacks mechanical sustain (like cata stability, tempest heals//mitigation, overload stunbreaks etc).

Edited July 11, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Greyrat.2378]

Depends on what you consider effective. If it's about amount of tools you have that you can mitigate damage with which makes the build ultimately hard or easy when it comes to PvP, and then you slap on top of it ability to easily pressure your opponent while still being able to mitigate most of the damage, that's when you can ultimately make safe conclusion that the specific build is easy to play.

Ele suffers from this stigma that it has too many buttons to press = hard profession to learn, which is probably the only saving grace why the PvP scene is not completely overrun by signet cata or any similar iteration of the signet build.

Easiest thing you can do is to go play that build, play others and then compare it.

 

[Vancho.8750]

all is vain

[Flowki.7194]

56 minutes ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

Depends on what you consider effective. If it's about amount of tools you have that you can mitigate damage with which makes the build ultimately hard or easy when it comes to PvP, and then you slap on top of it ability to easily pressure your opponent while still being able to mitigate most of the damage, that's when you can ultimately make safe conclusion that the specific build is easy to play.

Ele suffers from this stigma that it has too many buttons to press = hard profession to learn, which is probably the only saving grace why the PvP scene is not completely overrun by signet cata or any similar iteration of the signet build.

Easiest thing you can do is to go play that build, play others and then compare it.

 

I mostly agree with this, I think its the horrible matchmaking system that allows bad condi catas (or any tocix spec played by newbs) to just sit in a group where some of the players are good.. and then spew out their easy damage. Power/condi necro are by FAR the biggest offenders of this, awefull positioning etc.. but get away with it all to often. If they were playing something like herald, or power cata, no way.. they die in 2 second.

 

However, for me, thief is the biggest offender when it comes to mitigating the most damage while spitting out its own. While thief may not have the ''face tank'' staying power of ele.. DD is nion unkillable. He can risk far more situations, test the enemy out, get a kill or get out. Its by far the lowest risk highest reward spec in the game.

[Greyrat.2378]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

However, for me, thief is the biggest offender when it comes to mitigating the most damage while spitting out its own. While thief may not have the ''face tank'' staying power of ele.. DD is nion unkillable. He can risk far more situations, test the enemy out, get a kill or get out. Its by far the lowest risk highest reward spec in the game.

That's due to how stealth is implemented in this game (which seems to be polarizing topic here). 

Agree with the necro, reaper specifically, which seems to be quite forgiving if you make mistake while being able to heavily pressure enemies in team fights.
Scourge can be opressive as well but it's far more easier to shut that spec down.

[Flowki.7194]

14 hours ago, Greyrat.2378 said:

That's due to how stealth is implemented in this game (which seems to be polarizing topic here). 

Agree with the necro, reaper specifically, which seems to be quite forgiving if you make mistake while being able to heavily pressure enemies in team fights.
Scourge can be opressive as well but it's far more easier to shut that spec down.

And that is why I always defend power cata, as over performing as it may be at the highest level, no power necro is going to jump on power cata and do anything useful for at least 3 month. I topped damage my first 4 games in a row playing power necro (no to brag) the only thing I kept messing up was forgetting to replace wurm. There is far more to mess up on power cata.

 

Dps tempest is also quite difficult, not as hard as cata mechanically, but I find it harder playing dps tempst in practice. People still think you are support, so you spend most games being attacked by 3 players when ever you show your face. Its hard to do much damage when always under attack, I dare say most of the damage comes from self inflicted fire aura.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 i don't want to defend Necro here but ...... necro is by far not as good as cata is rn. The simple difference is Necro is hardly countered by cc's and got a second health bar to compensate this issue while ele get Access to many Stabi, blind, dmg reduction and maybe Blocks. Simple answer ele got for real everything rn (Stabi,Blocks,dmg reduction,blinds,melee dmg, ranged dmg, cleanes Heck even teleports invuln and stuff) and this is also the reason why its broken xd!

(Only thing ele does not have is stealth to be fair)

Edited July 12, 2023 by Myror.7521

[Flowki.7194]

7 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 i don't want to defend Necro here but ...... necro is by far not as good as cata is rn. The simple difference is Necro is hardly countered by cc's and got a second health bar to compensate this issue while ele get Access to many Stabi, blind, dmg reduction and maybe Blocks. Simple answer ele got for real everything rn (Stabi,Blocks,dmg reduction,blinds,melee dmg, ranged dmg, cleanes Heck even teleports invuln and stuff) and this is also the reason why its broken xd!

(Only thing ele does not have is stealth to be fair)

Im talking about effort for reward, like for example, scrapper is just a watered down easier virsion of power cata. Fine if it is not doing as good as cata, but if it was, why play cata. Same with power necro, if it is doing as well as power cata, what sense in all the extra difficulty or punishments for mistake in playing power cata?

 

Can apply that to virt mesmer, sb, most ranger specs, and so on.

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 yea i get that ele need to be Strong cause it is "Harder to Play" than letz say necr, Ranger, warr. But in the end ele rn is waaasyyyys too strong. 

Letz say it like this:

A class that is hard to Play should get rewarded with acutually good punishment against enemys. But this does not mean it should not be punish able. 

Best example for this are Glass Builds. You get rewarded by doing hard dmg means you could kill Players faster. But you are in fact so glassy that you could get fast killed while doing a mistake. 

Ele now get rewarded by get Played good. That is not wrong. What is wrong is that it get that mutch rewarded for been playing good that it is infakt unkillable while also dish out Tons of dmg. 

This class rn is in the state of Warr Back when Spellbraker was released. The only difference is that spell got nerfed like instantly while cata now get still buffs.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

I'm sry but I can't read ele is hard to play anymore lmao like wtf, a lot of us are gamers and have a good grasp of keybinds, ele may have more presses and rotational demand than other classes but in the grand scheme of things NO class in gw2 is hard to play. Any player that's half way comfortable on his keyboard can go to the mists or open world and practice the rotations and within a few days will have them down solid. Quit using ele is more difficult so it should be stronger as a excuse, it maybe mechanically harder to play than say necro but it also has far more defenses where as necro has no blocks, invuln, just shroud, barrier(some builds), and 2 tele's that have heavy parameters ie one leaves a trail u know where they will tele to and the sec requires smart placement(wurm).

Many necro players choose necro for theme and animations and are just as capable to play ele as any ele player within a very short time if chosen to. Also some may argue the lack of blocks, evade frames aside from dodge, invuln, and restricted ports makes necro harder to succeed with than ele due to importance of proper positioning, on ele wtf needs to worry about positioning.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Thron Stal.9367]

On 7/5/2023 at 5:43 AM, zyra.7860 said:

When you are yourself playing OP spec like willbender, untamed, reaper, spellbreaker - dont get mad/angry when getting outskilled by ele in 1v1. 

If you lose to any other ele spec than signet cata, its 100% skill issue. Its ofcourse good excuse to say "I WAS NOT BAD, OTHER SPEC WAS JUST OP!"

 

There is certain ranger main at forums who plays one shot sic em build and gets angry when he gets his @ss handed by ele, who dodges his burst. 

I just killed two ele's on my Warrior this evening... piece of cake.

[Flowki.7194]

30 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 yea i get that ele need to be Strong cause it is "Harder to Play" than letz say necr, Ranger, warr. But in the end ele rn is waaasyyyys too strong. 

Letz say it like this:

A class that is hard to Play should get rewarded with acutually good punishment against enemys. But this does not mean it should not be punish able. 

Best example for this are Glass Builds. You get rewarded by doing hard dmg means you could kill Players faster. But you are in fact so glassy that you could get fast killed while doing a mistake. 

Ele now get rewarded by get Played good. That is not wrong. What is wrong is that it get that mutch rewarded for been playing good that it is infakt unkillable while also dish out Tons of dmg. 

This class rn is in the state of Warr Back when Spellbraker was released. The only difference is that spell got nerfed like instantly while cata now get still buffs.

Yes effort and reward should be in line, but it isn't.

 

For example, SB is not hard enough to even warrent how useful it is right now. The average SB just rushes far, thinking they are a 1v1 god, while a decent SB locks down the attack target in a group fight, so it can be absolutely obliterated by friendly other dps. Or they sit on a healer/high dps etc to keep them busy.. very busy. Its far harder to avoid an SB in a group fight (and still actually do damage and healing) than what the SB is doing, low effort, very high impact. It is only that ranked is not more coordinated (full teams, all using mics) that we don't see how truly broken SB is, what it achieves, for essentailly 6 main buttons.

 

I can actually garuntee that if stability on signets is removed, many good eles will go back to power cata. The condi damage tanks if you have to keep jumping attunements for stability, thats why power cata became a thing, good physical damage in every attunement. That way, tempest and core ele still have signet builds, which are good, and nobody really complained about it (I played signet condi temepst for months before patch). And ofc, cata still has power, while dagger offhand is at least a more viable choice than it was (people moaned about focus a lot).

[Nepster.4275]

Seeming my man is a ele main and still gets owned by half of the classes xD

 

[Hotride.2187]

On 7/12/2023 at 3:14 PM, Flowki.7194 said:

For example, SB is not hard enough to even warrent how useful it is right now. The average SB just rushes far, thinking they are a 1v1 god, while a decent SB locks down the attack target in a group fight, so it can be absolutely obliterated by friendly other dps. Or they sit on a healer/high dps etc to keep them busy.. very busy. Its far harder to avoid an SB in a group fight (and still actually do damage and healing) than what the SB is doing, low effort, very high impact. It is only that ranked is not more coordinated (full teams, all using mics) that we don't see how truly broken SB is, what it achieves, for essentailly 6 main buttons.

Ah yes, spb, the teamfight spec. The things I read on this forum. You know why the spb is going for 1v1s? Cause every other build in the team is better in a team fight. 1v1 is the one thing spb is good at.

[Flowki.7194]

6 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Ah yes, spb, the teamfight spec. The things I read on this forum. You know why the spb is going for 1v1s? Cause every other build in the team is better in a team fight. 1v1 is the one thing spb is good at.

 

The average SB (like the average DH) rushes the point, stands on it, and thinks they are unkillable. I have seen a few very good SB who don't play like that, and create havoc in team fights, becuase of better positiong, more patient timing, and far better target selection/switching. I much prefere an enemy SB who goes far.. where its an easy +1.

Edited July 14, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Chromazene.4807]

[deleted]

Edited January 14 by Enduronex.4865