"Loot Crates" and GW2

[Ohoni.6057]

@Loosifah.4738 said:Oh for the love of the gods; how many of these threads are we going to see before people quit making duplicates?

Depends on how long it takes for ANet to actually fix this issue.

@maddoctor.2738 said:Although the game is not rated 18+, a minor 13-17 (the game is rated for 13+ so can't legally go lower than that) requires consent by an adult in order to play it.

EULAs are nonbinding on minors (and questionably binding on adults), but having a game EULA say that you should be an adult to play is a different thing entirely than having an adult-only rating or actual age verification.

@RabbitUp.8294 said:Does your country treat trading card games as gambling, because I'm pretty sure those are legal everywhere. You buy booster packs with random content, and that's exactly how mount adoption licences work. In fact, the licences are more honest, since you are guaranteed no duplicates.

I don't believe they've been challenged in court yet. Doesn't mean they couldn't be.

@OneYenShort.3189 said:While a lot of talk is being done about how "mmos" are going to be hit by it... really the mmo market for PC is very small. Where it will have a huge effect will be the mobile market.But as yet that whole pay to win aspect seems to be ignored there. Go figure.

It's all part of the same ecosystem. BFII was the game that got the most attention, and MMOs are being discussed here since this is an MMO, but any legislation passed would likely hit mobile too, and hit hard. Mobile's a bit too wild west for lawmakers to focus on it yet.

@maddoctor.2738 said:If the Mount Adoption License was going for 20 gems (600 gems for the entire collection) I honestly wouldn't care at all.

I probably wouldn't care either, because in that case the total price would be well within the "chump change" range, but I can't imagine ANet making out well on 30 skins for $7.50 deal. The main issue here is that the total cost, $120, was unreasonably high for anyone who wanted less than a complete set, while there was no option to get the specific skins you wanted short of the total package. The best solution for ANet would be to charge a reasonable amount for each skin. They could still get their $120+ from people who legitimately want all 30 skins, but they aren't owed that amount from players who only legitimately want 1-10 skins.

[Loosifah.4738]

@Turial.1293 said:

@Loosifah.4738 said:Oh for the love of the gods; how many of these threads are we going to see before people quit making duplicates?

Probably plenty more until Anet have been reprimanded in some way by law or on the very slimmest of chances they offer an apology and revert their lootbox practices. I am just personally waiting for the joint boycott as a protest to all this.

They already said they're not changing the current licenses; but they wouldn't be adding any more to the loot boxes. They're not going to go any further than that. This is just beating a dead horse.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

@Loosifah.4738 said:

@Turial.1293 said:

@Loosifah.4738 said:Oh for the love of the gods; how many of these threads are we going to see before people quit making duplicates?

Probably plenty more until Anet have been reprimanded in some way by law or on the very slimmest of chances they offer an apology and revert their lootbox practices. I am just personally waiting for the joint boycott as a protest to all this.

They already said they're not changing the current licenses; but they wouldn't be adding any more to the loot boxes. They're not going to go any further than that. This is just beating a dead horse.

They won't be adding any more skins to the current mount license. The "next planned (mount skin) releases" will be bundles or up-front price single skins. ANet has left plenty of leeway to put out more RNG purchases going forward. In fact, the newest (3000 gem) bundle includes pick-a-weapon-type-and-get-a-random-weapon-skin. The horse, in this case, never died.

[Ohoni.6057]

@Loosifah.4738 said:They already said they're not changing the current licenses; but they wouldn't be adding any more to the loot boxes. They're not going to go any further than that. This is just beating a dead horse.

Then it's a good thing I'm a licensed Equine Necromancer, because this issue is not going away until the existing thirty skins are made available through direct purchase.

[Zok.4956]

@Kheldorn.5123 said:A good developer would just abandon rng boxes altogether, no matter ih these are p2w or just cosmetics. Gambling is bad

yes, it is bad.

, the game is not rated 18+ so dev should act reasonable to its target audience. Since market was unable to regulate itself with lootboxes, regulators are stepping in. If it hurts anet in the process it's their fault only - they don't need gambling boxes to earn money. But they chose to use them.

If A-Net would not make money with this gambling, it would not be in the game anymore. The bank always wins.

[Zok.4956]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

When you buy a mount license you are guaranteed always an equal return (subjective opinion doesn't matter as far as which skin you prefer). Since you can't sell or exchange skins you are literally getting your monies worth plus the total amount of available skins gets reduced.

No, you dont. You can get a skin, that you do not want and that as a consequence has no value for you and if you really want a specific skin you may have to purchase/gamble again.

If the user could chose the skin he/she gets, it would not be gambling, but then A-Net would not earn so much money with this kind of gambling.

[RabbitUp.8294]

@Matick.4132 said:

@RabbitUp.8294 said:

In fact, the licences are more honest, since you are guaranteed no duplicates.

Well, if we're getting into THIS topic again. It should be well debated and stated by now, that if you want one you're walking into the likelihood that you have to buy 20/29 lootboxes to get the one desired. By that you'd spend a >>> swearword of your delight <<< of real world money, because as a normal person, you'd have to provided for your family with an IRL job and you can't waste 5 hrs of mind boggling farming each day in GW. So instead you have to have some extra cash besides you, if you wanna actually play the game and not farm it.

And because skins/customising your chars is a huge part of the endgame – and we've been there too by now – this isn't just the easy way of deviating this as

'Oh, it's just skins why even bother? duh!'

So. If we agree on the fact that

customising is a core part of the game

, making a core part of the game only available thru

spending real cash IS exploitation

by it's best!

It's the same for trading card games. If one is legal, you can't say the other is gambling.

@Zok.4956 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

When you buy a mount license you are guaranteed always an equal return (subjective opinion doesn't matter as far as which skin you prefer). Since you can't sell or exchange skins you are literally getting your monies worth plus the total amount of available skins gets reduced.

No, you dont. You can get a skin, that you do not want and that as a consequence has no value for you and if you really want a specific skin you may have to purchase/gamble again.

If the user could chose the skin he/she gets, it would not be gambling, but then A-Net would not earn so much money with this kind of gambling.

That's subjective value and is meaningless.

It's the same as getting a card you don't want/need out of a booster pack.

[Korval.3751]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Korval.3751 said:Black Lion Chests are for random vanity items. The loot crate system in SWBF2 was a Pay-2-Win model. My fear is both will be treated as the same.My

hope

is that they'll be.

I buy gems from the gem store as my way to help fund the game and also to cover people who never pay. Since 10/3 I've spent a combined $350. I'm pretty sure that's covered about 50-75 GW2 players.

[Korval.3751]

@Laosduude.1690 said:

@Korval.3751 said:Black Lion Chests are for random vanity items. The loot crate system in SWBF2 was a Pay-2-Win model. My fear is both will be treated as the same.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Material_Bag

Discontinued, but renders your first sentence invalid.

But you can get all those items through normal play. They're non-ascended common crafting materials. Have you seen what the loot crate system in SWBF2 is? It's literally like you buy a crate with real money and you have the chance to unlock a usable skill. Apples and oranges.

[Turial.1293]

EA lost over $3 billion dollars due to their loot crate fiasco, I hope Anet is taking note that mountgate RNG just won't stand.