Not seeing any mesmers out in OW and it's not surprising

[Polar.8634]

try relic of midnight king with dagger mirage. vigor comes from mirage alone normally, some bd from rune should cover it. 

can also be played hybrid with chaos instead of domi for the cost of boon strips but geting ton of boons and condi damage.

[Waffles.5632]

6 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

try relic of midnight king with dagger mirage. vigor comes from mirage alone normally, some bd from rune should cover it. 

can also be played hybrid with chaos instead of domi for the cost of boon strips but geting ton of boons and condi damage.

Just tried this relic using staff/dagger+pistol Mirage and it is amazing. Perma 25x might/fury/regen/vigor I love it so much. This + Nov 28th patch gonna push Mes to the top IMO.

[Curunen.8729]

Dagger mirage is probably my favourite thing about this expansion.

Haven't yet tested in wvw (in part due to playing on mobile internet across regions...) but can't believe they went through with this insane spammable 1200 range piercing daze from you and all clones with IH and massive bleed stacks.

D/F is seriously fun to group and burst while also bringing the fashion, and you don't even have to worry about virtuoso problems like normal dodge and cast times on shatters.

It's probably only balanced out by the auto being mediocre, and everything being stacked on the ambush. Tbh I reckon they will adjust it in the future given it doesn't seem to be in line with their direction on cc and damage.

 

My only complaint is actually the animations - they're all pretty much the same. Ok ambush is slowed down but would be a nice quality of life update in the future to get some unique animations for dagger 2/3, and maybe even an auto chain for some variety.

[Livian.1458]

7 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Just tried this relic using staff/dagger+pistol Mirage and it is amazing. Perma 25x might/fury/regen/vigor I love it so much. This + Nov 28th patch gonna push Mes to the top IMO.

Could you share the build please? Im assuming this is a condi build? and is it good in fractals? I only play open world and fractals mostly so I'm looking for any advice 🙂 

I tried to play the axe build and I really do not vibe with the axe and I'm looking for a change. 

[Waffles.5632]

26 minutes ago, Livian.1458 said:

Could you share the build please? Im assuming this is a condi build? and is it good in fractals? I only play open world and fractals mostly so I'm looking for any advice 🙂 

I tried to play the axe build and I really do not vibe with the axe and I'm looking for a change. 

Got you.

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAYhrlRwwYSsLmJW2P9PNA-DSRYVRBzMixHSPChwkAZqCU6AA-e

So I filled it out to what I'm currently using, but for utilities, you can literally go with whatever ones you like most. They're all flex slots. I take blink, jaunt, and Illusionary ambush because I love them. Arcane thievery kuz i want quickness in open world, and oasis kuz the mirage mirror = extra ambush

For stats you can also go whatever. I go half cele/half vipers kuz for me that's the best middle ground between dps and survival. You can go full cele or full vipers however.

Same with sigils and runes. For Runes I go tempest because with the Chaos Trait line, I'm able to get up to like 80 or 90% condi duration... on everything. I just love that.

The only sigil you absolutely need is sigil of energy kuz more dodges = more ambushes.

Here is video of build in action, it can kill the bat champ HP in HoT in under 40secs.

 

I'm still messing around with it so it's not 100% optimized yet, but it's wickedly strong imo. The relic of midnight king really ties it all together nicely. On staff you're pumping out alac+might+fury and then on dagger you're pumping out CC+Might+Fury. Tremendous value either solo or in any group IMO. Enjoy!

[Waffles.5632]

5 hours ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Dagger mirage is probably my favourite thing about this expansion.

Haven't yet tested in wvw (in part due to playing on mobile internet across regions...) but can't believe they went through with this insane spammable 1200 range piercing daze from you and all clones with IH and massive bleed stacks.

D/F is seriously fun to group and burst while also bringing the fashion, and you don't even have to worry about virtuoso problems like normal dodge and cast times on shatters.

It's probably only balanced out by the auto being mediocre, and everything being stacked on the ambush. Tbh I reckon they will adjust it in the future given it doesn't seem to be in line with their direction on cc and damage.

 

My only complaint is actually the animations - they're all pretty much the same. Ok ambush is slowed down but would be a nice quality of life update in the future to get some unique animations for dagger 2/3, and maybe even an auto chain for some variety.

These are my exact thoughts as well. I was convinced dagger ambush would have gotten nerfed hard by now but nope... Anet seems to think it's fine as is! LOL

And I also hate how dagger literally has one animation and that's it. Definitely needs more visual variety, and I would like more mechanics on dagger 2 and 3. 1 is nice because every 3rd auto summons that storm or w/e, but 2 and 3 are just so...boring to use. I wish they applied some condi's by default or something idk.

[Livian.1458]

34 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Got you.

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAYhrlRwwYSsLmJW2P9PNA-DSRYVRBzMixHSPChwkAZqCU6AA-e

So I filled it out to what I'm currently using, but for utilities, you can literally go with whatever ones you like most. They're all flex slots. I take blink, jaunt, and Illusionary ambush because I love them. Arcane thievery kuz i want quickness in open world, and oasis kuz the mirage mirror = extra ambush

For stats you can also go whatever. I go half cele/half vipers kuz for me that's the best middle ground between dps and survival. You can go full cele or full vipers however.

Same with sigils and runes. For Runes I go tempest because with the Chaos Trait line, I'm able to get up to like 80 or 90% condi duration... on everything. I just love that.

The only sigil you absolutely need is sigil of energy kuz more dodges = more ambushes.

Here is video of build in action, it can kill the bat champ HP in HoT in under 40secs.

 

I'm still messing around with it so it's not 100% optimized yet, but it's wickedly strong imo. The relic of midnight king really ties it all together nicely. On staff you're pumping out alac+might+fury and then on dagger you're pumping out CC+Might+Fury. Tremendous value either solo or in any group IMO. Enjoy!

Thank you very much! I'm looking forward to trying this build! Would this be okay in fractals too?

[Waffles.5632]

8 minutes ago, Livian.1458 said:

Thank you very much! I'm looking forward to trying this build! Would this be okay in fractals too?

oops my b! Yeah, it should be good for fracs as well!

It won't do the most dps or anything like that, but will definitely pull it's own weight and then some.

[Mevelios.4809]

7 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I wish [the dagger skills] applied some condi's by default or something idk.

I disagree. I'd rather see a few tweaks to the otherwise boring scepter that's stuck with a terribly lengthy channel (I don't mind its block, in PvP it's punishing and can still be made use of in PvE by walking into AoEs) and its overall slow-paced play for which we're about to lose the attack speed (however the CD reduction will be integrated by next update, like the axes). It wouldn't stack with quickness so it can be compensated by the mirage e-spec or a quickness chrono in any environment (or any quickness provider in group play), but all other profiles will be stuck back with its slow rhythm. The tweaks to Mirrored axes don't look that much interesting on mirage so I know I'll opt for mirage mantle on my favorite e-spec even when using the axe (and even if the mantle on that weapon is utterly useless for PvE), but if playing any other e-spec, scepter will always be off for me.

When it comes to condi weapons, we already have a large choice; power weapons much less. The dagger is the only power-based, single-handed ranged weapon at our disposal; if it were to integrate conditions on every attack it would come at the expense of power modifiers, sending us back to the time it were GS, GS or GS at range. Meaning it'd then deny the potential of three power offhands from range (sword, focus, shield). Too much to lose on this; I don't care much for my own way to play since I love diving into the melee, but looking around me I can tell I'm an oddball on that point amongst mesmers. Let's leave the dagger condi build to a mandatory passive for virtuosos, so other specs do not get stuck again with GS exclusively!

[Curunen.8729]

19 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

These are my exact thoughts as well. I was convinced dagger ambush would have gotten nerfed hard by now but nope... Anet seems to think it's fine as is! LOL

And I also hate how dagger literally has one animation and that's it. Definitely needs more visual variety, and I would like more mechanics on dagger 2 and 3. 1 is nice because every 3rd auto summons that storm or w/e, but 2 and 3 are just so...boring to use. I wish they applied some condi's by default or something idk.

It's quite mad.

I've gone D/F D/P dom/duel/mirage viper with krait runes and max cheese with adventurer relic. Pistol cools down so fast sometimes it's ridiculous. Not optimised at all in the limited time I've had to play soto, but this ambush is so overloaded lol.

Not tried the boon option for might stacking, which sounds like great fun, I'll make a template to mess about with that!

[Waffles.5632]

On 11/9/2023 at 6:27 AM, Mevelios.4809 said:

I disagree. I'd rather see a few tweaks to the otherwise boring scepter that's stuck with a terribly lengthy channel (I don't mind its block, in PvP it's punishing and can still be made use of in PvE by walking into AoEs) and its overall slow-paced play for which we're about to lose the attack speed (however the CD reduction will be integrated by next update, like the axes). It wouldn't stack with quickness so it can be compensated by the mirage e-spec or a quickness chrono in any environment (or any quickness provider in group play), but all other profiles will be stuck back with its slow rhythm. The tweaks to Mirrored axes don't look that much interesting on mirage so I know I'll opt for mirage mantle on my favorite e-spec even when using the axe (and even if the mantle on that weapon is utterly useless for PvE), but if playing any other e-spec, scepter will always be off for me.

When it comes to condi weapons, we already have a large choice; power weapons much less. The dagger is the only power-based, single-handed ranged weapon at our disposal; if it were to integrate conditions on every attack it would come at the expense of power modifiers, sending us back to the time it were GS, GS or GS at range. Meaning it'd then deny the potential of three power offhands from range (sword, focus, shield). Too much to lose on this; I don't care much for my own way to play since I love diving into the melee, but looking around me I can tell I'm an oddball on that point amongst mesmers. Let's leave the dagger condi build to a mandatory passive for virtuosos, so other specs do not get stuck again with GS exclusively!

I agree that scepter needs serious work. No argument there.

However the latest Thief weapon, Axe, is both condi and power. There is no reason Dagger cannot be the same. In fact all Mesmer weapons should be both condi and power imo, it would open up the class a lot instead of pigeonholing us into specific weapons because those are the only options.

17 hours ago, Curunen.8729 said:

It's quite mad.

I've gone D/F D/P dom/duel/mirage viper with krait runes and max cheese with adventurer relic. Pistol cools down so fast sometimes it's ridiculous. Not optimised at all in the limited time I've had to play soto, but this ambush is so overloaded lol.

Not tried the boon option for might stacking, which sounds like great fun, I'll make a template to mess about with that!

I'm gonna try out focus now because of you lol.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Waffles.5632

[Mevelios.4809]

16 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

However the latest Thief weapon, Axe, is both condi and power. There is no reason Dagger cannot be the same. In fact all Mesmer weapons should be both condi and power imo, it would open up the class a lot instead of pigeonholing us into specific weapons because those are the only options.

Let's stick to the mesmer only, we're no thieves; my opposition to such an idea is because as mesmers we have no other ranged mainhand weapon that is power-based. If any weapon were turned into a hybrid, there would be no reason to make any set other than viper; power modifiers would inevitably suffer too from the transition to hybrid. Down the drain for a single damage dealer gameplay as there would inevitably be a single BiS weapon set standing above all others! That's the undeniable risk - look at how staff fares (and will be strengthened for team play with coming chaos changes) against scepter/X or axe/X. Hopefully the integration of CD reductions for both of these weapons will bring them closer to one another!

17 hours ago, Curunen.8729 said:

I've gone D/F D/P dom/duel/mirage viper with krait runes and max cheese with adventurer relic. Pistol cools down so fast sometimes it's ridiculous. Not optimised at all in the limited time I've had to play soto, but this ambush is so overloaded lol.

Try the mirage 2*Sw/D+F interrupt build I've listed elsewhere, going down the chaos spec iso dueling for chaotic interruption; you'll like it even more!

[Curunen.8729]

1 hour ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I'm gonna try out focus now because of you lol.

Tbh iWarden still sucks so I'm not sure on your how much you might get out of it in pvp at the moment. But with 4 being our only pull (ignoring that new relic), that into ambush volleys is insane. And I like aurene's gaze enough to look past having one and a half weapon skills. xD

37 minutes ago, Mevelios.4809 said:

Try the mirage 2*Sw/D+F interrupt build I've listed elsewhere, going down the chaos spec iso dueling for chaotic interruption; you'll like it even more!

I would love to but unfortunately have been seriously turned off mainhand sword since they sped up the blurred frenzy animation - not for gameplay but for how it looks off. 😞 Also it used to be silent/not voiced most of the time on asura female, but now every time there is a really annoying voiced shout that goes with it. I don't mind swapping to sword for mobility when needed but, don't like using it anymore.

That and sharper images with pistol trait stacks absurd amount of bleeds for the effort, and having both deceptive evasion and self deception is fun to set up shatters between all the dagger pew pew.

Though I can see the benefit of faster focus 4 cooldown from CI is nice. Omg can you imagine if chaotic interruption did the immobilise on interrupt - would be so broken with dagger.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Curunen.8729

[Mevelios.4809]

4 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

sharper images with pistol trait stacks absurd amount of bleeds for the effort, and having both deceptive evasion and self deception is fun to set up shatters between all the dagger pew pew.

Phantom razor is OP on this particular set, it largely deserves a nerf considering its efficiency anytime you can maintain vigor, use cloak/mirror skills, or rely on stamina sigil & endurance food. Combine them all together and you can blindly spam the ambush, while indeed your pistol can fire away 13/14 stacks of bleeding at a frightening frequency (and you can still add Ineptitude's effect to the list). I get it's the only way on mirage to turn the dagger into a condi weapon, but seriously, that efficiency is unhealthy! It's almost a good thing the daze is bugged on clones and doesn't trigger.

49 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

Though I can see the benefit of faster focus 4 cooldown from CI is nice. Omg can you imagine if chaotic interruption did the immobilise on interrupt - would be so broken with dagger.

Fortunately it isn't possible! The sword can do that (illusionary leap into Swap) but has fewer targets, max 3.

59 minutes ago, Curunen.8729 said:

I would love to but unfortunately have been seriously turned off mainhand sword since they sped up the blurred frenzy animation - not for gameplay but for how it looks off. 😞

What offsets me the most is the blur duration (and associated damages from the length); I definitely preferred the 1.5s former effect because under quickness, it'd match mirage cloak. Since it's shorter, I still end up at times overestimating its duration and missing my timing!