Can't Defend Structures because...

[Riba.3271]

20 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

5 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Disorganised clouds can easily defeat organised groups.

True, if the organized group is heavily outnumbered. Even numbers no way, unless people are really bad at staying together with bad uptime. Then they're really not that organized.

Now, an organized cloud is a different story. An organized cloud can definitely crush a boon blob, but that is mostly due to exploiting  ignorance, arrogance, and complacency.

Disorganised = not on voice, not with parties and/or bad party comp. Having good players on your server does not mean your cloud is organised.

20 minutes ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

5 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

Good comp and putting extra effort in to group up is rewarded less than transferring to cloud servers with good numbers.

Which is why almost every group with more than 2 similar guild tags runs a boon ball all the way from map queue to 5 person "roaming" party?  I really hesitate to believe they're all handicapping themselves because boon spam is high skill gameplay, especially when people are willing to take any edge they can get.

The superiority of stacking sustain and instat res carry me skills simply cannot be denied, beyond user error and skewed numbers.

My words do not mean clouding is ever best strategy, just that the defending bonuses are stronger than strategy granted defending players bring enough damage (f/e not random 0 damage rangers) and actually builds that work in that situation.  You completely misunderstood what I was saying.

The same defending groups become completely useless when they try to go open field or attack an objective. Why? Because they overly relied on defending bonuses. Now since one side has already went on voice comms, fixed their comp and organised, and the other side hasn't, it is quite clear who has more room for improvement, even though neither side can take objectives from enemy.

Balance should never promote stalemates and defence focused gameplay.  After all, all disorganised clouds need to be come semi-organised is for 1 good player to press "Create Squad" button. Balance should never be skewed enough for defending side to be able to defend against voice tags without this occuring.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Riba.3271

[ArchonWing.9480]

24 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

Disorganised = not on voice, not with parties and/or no designated comp. Having good players on your server does not mean your cloud is organised.

Ah, I see our definitions of organization is different. I don't think anything but the third, "designated comp", is sufficiently necessary for organization. Though obviously voice comms is greatly desired.

However, IMO the difference should be even greater. I simply cannot fathom people on voice with a set comp who are serious about winning fights losing to people that have equal numbers (and don't). Even just saying who to focus is already a significant advantage. If you care about winning at all, then the benefit should be self-evident.

When I think of Organization, I simply think of a group that has common goals, and where everyone takes the personal responsibility to choose the proper roles to help achieve said goal. The key here is whether or not people wish to take on personal responsibility or just treat it as some casual pip farm.

When I think of disorganized, I think of a free for all, where you do not care about your server mates, nor do you care about contributing or helping your servermates succeed. (eg pip farming, chasing orange swords and taking turns wiping to the same group)

I do not think merely being in a comp, following a tag, and pressing 1 means you are organized, especially if you do not strive to do your role well. (Certainly that might be better than being on your own doing very little though). But a group of 4 gank classes targeting the same target would have a higher level of organization.

24 minutes ago, Riba.3271 said:

My words do not mean clouding is ever best strategy, just that the defending bonuses are stronger than strategy granted defending players bring enough damage (f/e not random 0 damage rangers) and actually builds that work in that situation.  You completely misunderstood what I was saying.

The same defending groups become completely useless when they try to go open field or attack an objective. Why? Because they overly relied on defending bonuses. Now since one side has already went on voice comms, fixed their comp and organised, and the other side hasn't, it is quite clear who has more room for improvement, even though neither side can take objectives from enemy.

This seems to be localized to your own experiences, hence the misunderstanding.

I think all players should strive to improve. While I agree that groups that only defend tend to be lacking in other aspects, especially in open field combat, I think you are also downplaying some strategy that these players may have that you don't. Granted, the strategy aspect of WvW has been greatly diminished due to game mode neglect and general apathy.

But I'm just going to say that "already went on voice comms, fixed their comp and organised," is only the beginning.

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by ArchonWing.9480