the one stat to rule them all - minstrel thread #45323

[graishak.5406]

I suggest modifying the Minstrel gear stats by changing it from a 4-stat combo to a 3-stat combo, with a focus on maintaining its support-oriented nature. The proposed stats would be:

++Healing Power
 +Toughness
 +Concentration
Alternatively, vitality could be swapped with toughness.

The intent  is to address the current state where support/healer builds can be overly tanky. While it's reasonable for support roles to have some level of tankiness, the current setup feels disproportionately defensive, given the extensive utility they already provide (heals, cleanses, boons, etc.).

The goal is not to eliminate support tankiness but rather to introduce a more balanced trade-off. As it stands, encounters often involve highly resilient support builds, leading to fights feeling less interactive. The proposed adjustment aims to maintain the support's defensive capabilities while ensuring that the extra tankiness comes at a reasonable cost.

Ofc boons are a big reason why those builds are so tanky, but i dont think boonspam will be resolved by a few small changes so it wont happen for quite some time, and even if - the survivability discrepancy between dps and supports should not be this big.

[Riba.3271]

They just need to nerf concentration stat because Minstrel is the problematic gear making largescale fights braindead, and celestial is the stat making small scale fights braindead. Reason being? If your boons have permanent uptime (stability, protection, quickness etc) then you don't need to time those boons. They're just there forever and only way to counter them is boon stripping, which is only available to handful of classes and boons removed are random.

So what they need to change is following

1% boon duration per 15 concentration -> 1% boon duration per 25 concentration.

After that we might start seeing other stats seeing play.

 

Also if Minstrel needs even further nerfs, they could change vitality to major stat instead of toughness. The healing effectiveness that minstrel provides scales with toughness, but not vitality.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Riba.3271

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

5 hours ago, graishak.5406 said:

++Healing Power
 +Toughness
 +Concentration
Alternatively, vitality could be swapped with toughness.

You are just suggesting reworking Minstrel into a Giver's Variant, AND giving it even more Boon Duration than it had, while saying boon spam is an issue.
Not only would the change to the stat affect PvE, it won't even help the situation much, if at all, in WvW.

The idea of changing Boon Duration stat formula natively for WvW is way better than, this complicated extra work for no reason.
 

[graishak.5406]

i think the people critizising this because they see higher concentration are missing the point a bit. i didnt propose this to fix the boonmeta - i want fighting groups that have a lot of healers to be more engaging by introducing risk.
my issue here is with the design of supports that combine the roles of tank, healer and boonsupports. Minstrel's statspread is just so optimal that healers get everything they could want and as such is unhealthy and pushes out any other stats that have heal.

And any Fallout introduced by more boon duration can fixed by adjusting concentration, like pointed out, or adjusting durations/cooldowns. which i also want, but that is something already discussed to death so i dont want to talk about that.

[graishak.5406]

the reason why nerfing concentration/boons would do nothing for the design issue i laid out, is that if boons are nerfed in order to kill a minstrel in a reasonable amount of time, then non tank builds are equally effected.
Minstrel gives about an increase in armor of about 60%. you would need +60% damage to counteract that. if you turn that damage at marauder builds, i guess they would just melt without much counterplay, and they would need to blanket nerf damage to compensate and we are back to unreasonably tanky healers.
i would like to be wrong here, but it just feels like people give an overly simplistic solution -. i dont think like 15% less boon duration would solve the issue here.

Edited November 28, 2023 by graishak.5406

[Jobber.6348]

22 hours ago, Riba.3271 said:

They just need to nerf concentration stat because Minstrel is the problematic gear making largescale fights braindead, and celestial is the stat making small scale fights braindead. Reason being? If your boons have permanent uptime (stability, protection, quickness etc) then you don't need to time those boons. They're just there forever and only way to counter them is boon stripping, which is only available to handful of classes and boons removed are random.

So what they need to change is following

1% boon duration per 15 concentration -> 1% boon duration per 25 concentration.

After that we might start seeing other stats seeing play.

 

Also if Minstrel needs even further nerfs, they could change vitality to major stat instead of toughness. The healing effectiveness that minstrel provides scales with toughness, but not vitality.

Ngl sounds more like Boons themselves need rebalancing.

I mean if you nerf boon uptime, it'll just shift meta gradually toward builds that CAN uptime better. It'll be never ending wack a mole until we end up at the same conclusion: Boons be wildin'

I'd honestly much rather Boons got a competitive split than stats get rebalanced.

[graishak.5406]

11 minutes ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Ngl sounds more like Boons themselves need rebalancing.

I mean if you nerf boon uptime, it'll just shift meta gradually toward builds that CAN uptime better. It'll be never ending wack a mole until we end up at the same conclusion: Boons be wildin'

I'd honestly much rather Boons got a competitive split than stats get rebalanced.

yes, boons would need a lot or balancing.

i just dont think anet will ever put in that much efford(not blaming them, it would be a lot) so i proposed a bandaid solution

[Aeolus.3615]

just cut the max of % boon duration achievable with max boon duration stats  possible so max boon duration from stats would be 50%

Edited November 28, 2023 by Aeolus.3615

[MithranArkanere.8957]

I'd rather have a new ++Healing, +concentration, +vitality stat altogether. Call it something like "Martyr" or "Monk".

I would not be against getting Wizard, Avatar, and Sage, which are only available in PvP.  Those would have been really great new SotO stats.

[Caffynated.5713]

Member when it was meta to take 3x +15% boon duration rune set bonuses, and it was so stupidly overpowered that they moved boon duration further up the rune so you could only get +20% boon duration?

I member.

Somewhere along the line they just magically forgot that boons are incredibly strong and boon duration is more valuable than almost any other bonus you can get.