"Elite Spec" mechanic on weapons

[Madminds.1723]

So after running around with Ranger maces I feel there is something that might be an issue, that is adding what would probably have been part of an elite spec, but it's only tied now to specific weapons, in this case the Ranger maces but I noticed the same thing when running Ele pistol.
I kept having the feeling that the Natures Strength part of the maces was missing actual traits to augment and adjust this, I'm aware we are going away from getting elite specs and I understand the reasons, but then adding what would have been part of an elite spec but locking it to specific weapons I see a problem arise.
This is mostly coming from a WvW player tbf so I will not speak for PvE CM's and such where the thought might be different. So the problem in question: having this unique mechanic is ofc fitting into the balancing aspect of the maces and in general I found the skills quite nice, but when I then choose to run just offhand mace because I might wanna do axe, sword or dagger mainhand, the Natures Strength mechanic becomes basically none functional, since with the cd's on skill 4 and 5 it takes almost a minute camping that weapon set just to get the actual buff. And then what if I have to do a weapon swap at a bad time in terms of the buff upkeep but the correct decision in the moment of the fight, well then the stacks might run out and I now have to start over trying to actually get the stacks once again.

If this was part of an elite spec there would surely be traits to change up different aspects of Natures Strength and let you build it up in different ways even when using other weapons that just maces, but since we don't get this it just feels like one half of a thing, a half that just don't feel good but instead very strict and locked in terms of how to play it if you actually wanna get proper use out of the mechanic.
I got the same feeling with Ele pistol, on paper they looked really cool, but in practice they were actually just really annoying to try play around, simply because it again felt like there were suppose to be a trait line that fed into the mechanic.
This is all personal after playing around with the weapons in the beta and I might be wrong and if that's the case so be it.

I just wanna put forward this for the Devs to consider. It's lovely and creative work as always but if you don't intend on giving trait lines to us anymore then I think it's a mistake adding unique mechanics to a specific weapon. If you do wanna play around with this in the future, I think you have to consider doing "elite spec" trait lines that feed into this mechanics making them more well rounded to use in practice. You don't even have to call them elite specs, or give them extra features like Harbinger Shroud, Soul Beast merge or Weaver dual attunements, just a trait line that actually feed into the mechanics you add making them more versatile and not feel like a tagged on gimmick.

Long post I know, which is why I can't do Twitter.
Have a nice day!

[Fueki.4753]

For me, Nature's strength is not really a gimmick or mechanic to "plan" around how I play with the Maces. I see it as a bonus when it pops and nothing more.

And I think it shouldn't be more than that. Just having fun bonking enemies with Maces would be enough for me.

Edited December 5, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Dadnir.5038]

I wouldn't say that it's at the level of an "elite spec", it's more "thematic illusions" whose purpose is to rekindle player's interest in the game.

But, yeah, I agree, those mechanisms thoroughly lack support from the traitlines. I'd say that the devs are thinking to much "out of the box" while still producing "more of the same".

[Madminds.1723]

Oh I did really enjoy playing with the maces, I found them to actually be really nice skills with solid use cases. I just always had this feeling that Natures Strength either didn't actually function in practice if I as an example ran it only in offhand or I had to focus way to hard on actually proccing it to the point where it became a drawback.
So I ended up just kinda feel that it was missing the usual traits you would get to augment it to fit as said in wvw/pvp engagments where in pve I'm sure it's way easier since you can more play into a planned rotation to benefit as much as possible from it.
I just don't believe that skill balancing won't take it into account, that it is a thing that is part of the skills and it ending up holding maces back.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Tbh after they said tehy are no longer making adfitional specs but still make wepaons. They might consider making new traitlines as well or reworking old ones.

[Silvoshipnos.2089]

On 12/5/2023 at 8:32 AM, Dadnir.5038 said:

I wouldn't say that it's at the level of an "elite spec"

I agree, it's probably at the same level as untamed. Not a full blown elite spec, just some hints of it

[frazazel.7501]

I didn't try out the maces myself during the beta, but from what I've seen, the maces look like a very good weapon set even without Nature's Strength. But the cooldown refresh and +25% damage/heal on activation is another BIG benefit. As an optimizer, I can't imagine using a ranger mace, and not trying to squeeze some use out of this mechanic. So if I'm using offhand mace, then I'm going to either space out my 4 + 5 + weapon swaps to make sure I hit 6 stacks on my second time through the weapon skills, or I'm going to run mainhand mace alongside offhand mace.

But honestly, I can't see myself ever running the defensive offhand mace in PvE without also wanting the damage/support mainhand mace. In fact, mainhand mace feels pretty overloaded. As Untamed with only mainhand mace, I expect to be able to hit 6 stacks within a single weapon swap: Ambush -> 2 -> 3 -> autoattack chain x2 -> 2 (NS!) -> 3 -> 2.

Using both together, you won't even need to autoattack to trigger NS. Ambush + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 gets you to 6 stacks, and refreshes all your mace skills so you can do them all again. I think being able to chain 4 hard CCs in a row for a total of 10 seconds of shutdown with just your weapon skills will be pretty busted.

There skills need to actually hit something for the stacks, though, so I expect cries of frustration whenever opponents dodge/block/are invulnerable to these attacks. Should be a non-issue for most PvE content, though.