Signet Skills and Trait

[XECOR.2814]

I think we need to have a discussion about what kind of effects do we want on some the signet skills and traits because what he have now is not interesting (especially traits) and unusable in most scenarios.

I made this post cause I don't see how the new life steal addition on Signet of Suffering trait will make people take the trait and I wanted to gather feedback so Devs can see what players want from this skill and what will make them take it.

- The problem arose when in a previous change we lost the ability to gain passive functionality and enhanced effects of signets while in shroud.
- Before this change, the trait had its niche uses.
- After the change the playability had sunk into the floor. Because the effects of 1 boon rip on hard cd (no reduction in shroud) is very low value for a necromancer whose whole defense revolves around those utility skills.

Now, I'm working under the assumption that they don't want those passive effects in shroud back, because people have clearly criticised this change and we have only received silence on this so I have to assume as such.

The problem with the current effect is that it is of no use in pve, pvp and wvw altogether.
- In pve, you either take dps or support traits and your basic weapon skills do enough boon remove/corrupt to handle all scenarios. So taking 1-2 extra single timeuse, long cd boon rip through utility would be quite frankly, idiotic and a wrong decision.
- In pvp/wvw removing 1 boon is like taking a cup of water out of the sea. No matter how much you time it, you will never remove what u want because of constant spam, not to mention all of the signets can be blinded and blocked.

As for the life steal on the trait: 
It is a very weak effect for a proper casted skill on a medium to high cd with single hit effect.
It has the same drawbacks of having high probability of getting blinded, blocked, cc'ed and line of sighted essentially giving no power at all to the trait in practical. 

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Changes I would personally suggest that will make signets more interesting again but different from past effects that we prolly wont get would be:

1. Signets of Suffering (Trait in Spite) : 
 Grant 2-3sec resistance and few stacks of un-blockable when Signet skills are used and remove the boon rip component if required to fit in the power budget.(You have enough data, nobody uses this trait for boon rip still, its a dead end). The boon rip already competes with another boon rip trait Lesser Spinal Shivers.
- This change alleviates the blind and immob pressure which is an actual utility that necro might need if they are taking signets instead of other skills like consume conditions, spectral walk, spectral ring, well of power, well of darkness, wurm etc.
- Resistance+un-blockable would go well with theme of spite compared to lifesteal thats for sure.

Idk if many people tried the signet relic with signets but it does feel alright to play except the fact that relic gives resistance on every second signet use and investing that much signets into utility+heal skill just tanks the value that you get comparatively. If the resistance was available on signet use straight up it will give a fluid gameplay experience.

2. Plague Signet (Stun Break Utility Skill):
Passive should give reduced condition duration (25%?) not condition damage.
This will help with managing various debilitating conditions other than damaging conditions too, just like the previous change.
Active should gather conditions from allies on activation and send them in 1 go.
This allows for more engaging gameplay and keeps the flavour of the skill.

3. Signet of Vampirism (Heal Skill)
Passive needs its radius increased to 240 because it is not useful at all. Its capped at 1 enemy anyway. Also it needs to life steal, the life siphon effects is just making the tooltip longer and making the skill complex for no reason. The numbers can be balanced.
Active effect is fine. Mechanically it would be better if the stack stayed on you and you spent it on targets rather than it sticks to 1 enemy and get wasted if enemy dies or moves away or allies steal your stacks etc. There  are like only 1-2 situations where u get value out of stacks and million of situations where u dont.
Also the active duration is pretty low, should be bumped up probably.

4. Signet of Undeath (Resurrection Utility Skill)
Passive life force could be bumped up a tiny bit in competitive modes now that the passive effects in shroud is gone.
Active is fine with its health cost.

5. Signet of Locust (Boon rip + move speed Utility skill)
Passive needs to give 33% move speed not 25% to be useful thats just it. The slot is extremely competitive and this skill is way too difficult to get value out of.
We had availability to 33% move speed with enhanced effect through old Signet of Suffering. Since that has changed, its just a bad effect all in all.
Active is kinda ok if you manage to get full value but its still situational and it follow the same weakness of being blinded and blocked easily so it gives no value to user when they actually need it.

6. Signet of Power (Dps skill) 
Passive and Active are fine

Do give your opinions or if you want something else.
I do believe that just asking for the previous effect is in vain.
It seems like its time to rack your brains cause the life steal effect is not it.

Edited February 17 by XECOR.2814

[Dadnir.5038]

1- I disagree with your "solution" for signet of suffering. With the incoming swords, what the necromancer need the most is a trait that reward the stupidity of sacrificing one's life. I do believe that signet of suffering can add this depth to the active part of signets skills (also, the more life one sacrifice, the higher the reward should be, which should reward handsomely the use of SoU).

Signet of suffering: Signets active now have a 1400 health cost. Gain 5% LF and reduce shroud CD by 1 second for every 1000 health sacrificed.

2- I do think signets' passive should be looked at by the devs. I do think necromancer fit more this kind of passive:

• 20% incoming condition duration reduction.
• 20% incoming condition damage reduction.
• 25% incoming crowd control duration reduction.
• 10% incoming strike damage reduction.
• 10-20% outgoing barrier to allies.
• 10-20% life force gained from all sources.
• ... etc.

3- Actives are mostly fine. Some CD could afford to be lowered but the skills effect are already good enough as they are.

[Birdie.3869]

Signets of Suffering
Should just give the passive of signets in shroud like it use to. Nothing else is needed.
Not asking for the previous effect, simply asking for it to do one thing. Passives are active in shroud. No cooldown reduction, no bonus effects in shroud.

The rest of these are assuming signets of suffering doesn't get changed outside the coming changes. Because we all know that's how it's going to go.

Plague Signet
This is ok as it is. The coming change of reduced condition damage instead of pulling condi's onto self leads to less imploding when allies all take condi's from various sources, and fixes bugs it has with taking otherwise unremovable condi's off ally npcs, like wounded solder's 11h cripple.
If it's a risk-reward signet, though. So imo it should be 240 aoe on target, 3 targets max. Risk the condi dmg on you a little longer to group up enemies before spitting out the condi's for a big return.

Signet of Vampirism
Make it aoe to make it interesting, but it'd need a nerf on the number of lifesteal on hit effect it puts out. Having it be 5 but up to 5 targets would make it more useful for solo, and make it a more selfish sustain. Like vampirism usually is. Solo you can only rip 5 stacks off whatever you put on max before the duration runs out anyway.
That said, that's just theme and personal desire and it's technically fine as it. I'm also sure it sees some minor use from support necro when said necro forgets that well of blood exists.

Signet of Undeath
This one needs a rework or big buffs. It's lifeforce generation outside shroud is laughable. Weapons usually generate enough life force during shroud cooldown, or just use spectral grab on large groups and your lifeforce will be full.
12% lifeforce in the 10 seconds shroud is down is nothing. +3 seconds in shroud, at most. Less for some shrouds. Harbinger gets 15% (3s in shroud) just for going into shroud passively.
Losing a large chunk of health to res 1 person every 75s is crazy weak. If it keeps its health loss, it should res 3, if it doesn't, then 1 is ok.
You can't even choose who in the circle gets res'd. It's pretty much random. Meaning if one person can be resed the other is at low with poisoned it can hit the poisoned person not resing them and now both are still downstate.
At the very least, this should work with the trait signets of suffering in some way. Currently, it's just a utility with no synergy with anything on necros kit. If swords get stronger the less health you have overall, then there's easier ways to drain your health than burning a utility slot on doing otherwise nothing when solo or with a group that's not going down.
It should have damage tacked on to it, if nothing else. So if it hits enemies it will rip 2 boons in an aoe off enemies while resing 1 target. Then the added lifesteal will work with it too replenishing some or all of the sacrificed health.
If you want to only focus on it's res and want to be a light armor res support, go ele and take the glyph you can choose between to be a single target full heal from downstate, or a 3 person res that has a similar cooldown and doesn't require you to burn half your health bar. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Renewal Just an added 15 seconds, no ripping your own health bar open, and either 1 but a full heal, or 3 (and 2 other 1 res uses including a self res and teleport the downstate to you).

Signet of Locust
This is a second heal skill you can take. That's it. It can either be a 2k heal, or a full heal depending on what you fight. Passive is fine, necro was never known for speed or mobility.
The place where it was most useful, in reaper shroud, it is no longer usable in. So leaving it a heal skill and a half decent mobility boost when not used is pretty good considering necro lacks proper self sustain outside dagger 2, shroud, lifesteal (which hardly counts considering how weak it is), harbinger regen and heal skills.

Signet of Power
It's good on both power and condi builds. On power builds it gives the passive power, and cripple, weakness and blind on demand. On condi builds, it's active is an on cooldown usable single target dps boost.
I agree, fine as is. I do want it to be a 240 aoe around the target, though. 3 targets max. It'd feel a bit better to be able to combo it with something like spectral grasp so it plays with necros kit a little.

Edited February 17 by Birdie.3869

[XECOR.2814]

22 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

1- I disagree with your "solution" for signet of suffering. With the incoming swords, what the necromancer need the most is a trait that reward the stupidity of sacrificing one's life. I do believe that signet of suffering can add this depth to the active part of signets skills (also, the more life one sacrifice, the higher the reward should be, which should reward handsomely the use of SoU).

Signet of suffering: Signets active now have a 1400 health cost. Gain 5% LF and reduce shroud CD by 1 second for every 1000 health sacrificed.

My changes are more in the realm of possibilities. You are trying to add on a mechanic previously not present on traits. (Gain lf for sacrificing health and reducing cd of shroud).
Aside from it being a new mechanic that would need to be introduced, the effect itself is not in theme with spite nor does it make a coherent build in the traitline and pigeon holes you into taking signets to do anything because cd decrease on shroud which is the singular most important imp thing on neromancer.
And finally, the effect itself would create too much disturbance to current gameplay loop in all modes (including pve rotations) and doesn't solve any of the holes that are there except introducing new gameplay that may make 1 build super op.

Again some of the changes to the trait could be:
- Signet Skills convert 1 boon to 10 vulnerability on target(Just like how reaper does). Signet skills cannot be blinded , or 
- Signet Skills give might+resolution on use. Resolution is more effective (33% -> 50%). And maybe bump up the resolution durations on spiteful spirit too to make a decent build to theorycraft.
- Signet Skills are unblockable and their activation reduces the cd of other signets active by 25% on their use. (This gives value to singular signet skills as well as encourages taking multiple)
There are tons of things that can be done but the current change is just lazy imo.

[Sjentra.3409]

The problem with trying to add a traited lifesteal to signet activation is that you're giving up the passive for a tiny heal.
All signets except locus are single target (wonder if they even thought about Signet of Undeath that only hits a single allie) and unless the lifesteal is some absurd number; you'll probably get more healing from just a single sword auto attack chain.

I think the only way to salvage Signets of suffering is if the lifesteal was on any skill; like Superior Sigil of Blood. Or if it was a passive like Signet of Vampirism where each signet would give you more lifesteal/second. Otherwise since you're using the Spite specialization; Awaken the Pain is just better for power builds.

If you need healing and bool removal, dagger 3+2 is better in basically every way compared to running signets of suffering and 2 signets. And then you even get lifeforce. Now granted most of our utility skills are pretty situational anyways; I'd still take a pet over almost any of the signets 4 of out 5 times.