My grudge with Weapon Master Training.

[jason.1083]

As a feature I don't have an issue with it, it barely affected me and my playstyle regardless. But it introduced a major bug that it's still not fixed today. 

So, some time ago I got a friend to try out Holosmith, and it was all going well until I realized, their sword skills were not the correct ones. Apparently what has happened is that characters created after Soto released defaulted to the (as many of you are probably aware) non-Holo version of the Sword...

That was created as a separate version of Sword skills with higher base coefficiency and slightly tweaked skills to accommodate Sword into Engineer specs that don't have access to the heat mechanic.

Problem is that it applied to Holosmith characters as well, so now my friend is stuck with a Holosmith character that uses a Sword which doesn't interact with the heat mechanic, and before anyone says I should post this on the bugs thread, there have been posts about it there, I've sent both an in-game report and I emailed support about it. This is an ongoing issue since August of 2023, and it's still not fixed.

My friend tried deleting that character and making another one, same issue, now they have 100% map completion on that new character and sunk a lot of resources to gear it up, so deleting it and trying again is out of the question.

I just don't understand why, isn't this considered a game breaking bug? It actively puts the player in a disadvantage, I don't get how it's still not fixed. I'm unsure if that applies to all Engineer's created after SotO or just some, but I doubt it matters.

So I just wanted to get some opinions, I'm not reporting it as a bug, I just want to express now baffled I am.

[Fortunello.9853]

omg is the same bug i am fighting on my other post to be fixed, i have it too like your friend. 

 

[Puck.3697]

Well this doesn’t bold well for my char engi that I’ve made when returning very recently lol, haven’t engaged with content to rly test this so I guess I best find out if this is affecting me 😂

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control, unable to forgive and sinking deeper. Defining, confining, and sinking deeper. Saturn comes back around, lifts you up like a child, or drags you down like a stone to consume you 'til you choose to let this go. 

Choose to let this go. Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.

Let go!

 Other than that, I agree with the rest of your topic.

[Fortunello.9853]

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

Well this doesn’t bold well for my char engi that I’ve made when returning very recently lol, haven’t engaged with content to rly test this so I guess I best find out if this is affecting me 😂

The best way to test it as an engineer post Soto is: as a holosmith, how many edges does your 2 throw, if it's one you are okay, if it's two, like out of holosmith spec (scrapper, mechanist or core) then you are bugged and the sword doesn't recognize the holosmith spec and the heat. (Also for some reason pvp work is only in pve and wvw where the bug happen)

Edited March 21 by gglx.5286

[coffeeScryer.9432]

Still to this day, my sword is still bugged

[jason.1083]

1 hour ago, gglx.5286 said:

The best way to test it as an engineer post Soto is: as a holosmith, how many edges does your 2 throw, if it's one you are okay, if it's two, like out of holosmith spec (scrapper, mechanist or core) then you are bugged and the sword doesn't recognize the holosmith spec and the heat. (Also for some reason pvp work is only in pve and wvw where the bug happen)

Well apparently the new Patch introduced another bug to Sword where Mechanist and Scrapper didn't get the CD reduction from 14 to 12 seconds on Radiant Arc, they didn't even nerf it properly.

Yeah Sword needs some attention both from the balance team and whatever team is responsible for fixing bugs.

I feel lucky I don't experience it myself at this point honestly, since my Holosmith was created back in 2018.

[ShadowKatt.6740]

Oh this is fun. I didn't even know about this bug BUT I recognized immediately that using a Spec Weapon without the spec is stupid. Engi swords needs Holosmith to work properly. Mirage axe can't give Mirage Cloak if you're not a Mirage. Deadeye Rifle can't realize it's potential without malice. These weapons DO NOT WORK outside of their spec, at least not nearly as well.

But to find out that because of this now the Engi sword doesn't even work WITH Holosmith? Oh that's an impressive way to screw things up.

[jason.1083]

Just now, ShadowKatt.6740 said:

Oh this is fun. I didn't even know about this bug BUT I recognized immediately that using a Spec Weapon without the spec is stupid. Engi swords needs Holosmith to work properly. Mirage axe can't give Mirage Cloak if you're not a Mirage. Deadeye Rifle can't realize it's potential without malice. These weapons DO NOT WORK outside of their spec, at least not nearly as well.

But to find out that because of this now the Engi sword doesn't even work WITH Holosmith? Oh that's an impressive way to screw things up.

It's been around since day 1 of SotO and there have been many threads about this, I personally sent a couple in-game bug reports about it and even e-mailed support about it with clips of a Holosmith using non Holo variant skills, the person replying didn't know what I was talking about... After I replied again and tried to make it clear to them, I just got the automated response that they'll look into it, it's been more than a month and a half since that happened.

And now the changes they made with this balance patch didn't even apply properly to all 3 specs.

 

[Fortunello.9853]

6 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

It's been around since day 1 of SotO and there have been many threads about this, I personally sent a couple in-game bug reports about it and even e-mailed support about it with clips of a Holosmith using non Holo variant skills, the person replying didn't know what I was talking about... After I replied again and tried to make it clear to them, I just got the automated response that they'll look into it, it's been more than a month and a half since that happened.

And now the changes they made with this balance patch didn't even apply properly to all 3 specs.

 

i have done the same as you jason, tickets ( with the same pr answer) bug reports, and now im here in the forum fighing so hard for this bug to be acknowledge, because losing one of the only weapons the engineer can use it´s not something i consider a small bug. Seeing another post i found i through the bug came from september of 23 but you saying that this is from the release of soto is even worst. I have been playing since release and nearly no bug i have reported in 12 years has been fixen, so people theres a lot of bugs now with the new patch, if any of you can support the post about this bug and all i have compiled about the problem, more posts, the origen of the bug, visual evidence etc in the bug section so this doesn´t die this time i will be grateful. 

 

[Fortunello.9853]

People i have found the cause of the problem and i posted in in my post in the bug section but in summary after testing all the day, with the weapon mastery training of Soto the thing is that literally you don`t learn to use the sword or the skills you literally just use them compared to other weapons, thats why in pvp this doesn`t happen, the skills are colored and you are supposed to know them already compared to pve. As an engineer you doesn`t learn to use the sword and thats why the weapon apply always the standar values of out of holosmith. This image show the cause of the problemhttps://imgur.com/ABEAOFx

[Puck.3697]

So i have now looked and yes suffer the bug lol So, given this likely will never be fixed how large is the DPS Loss for players suffering this? Lol 

[Fortunello.9853]

3 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

So i have now looked and yes suffer the bug lol So, given this likely will never be fixed how large is the DPS Loss for players suffering this? Lol 

Well, seeing that, in this last balance patch of  march 19th they have to nerf the sword because of the benefit the basic attack and the 2 (the edges) get from heat (and we don´t receive the buff of high heat because of the bug ), and comparing numbers with other engineers this last week that i have been working on this bug more than playing, people like us that have this bug shouldn´t use the sword compared to another holosmith without the bug. In fact in more competitive modes like raids fractals and strikes you are probably doing more damage and bringing more utility with the hammer. The benefict the sword should have as a holosmith is more damage than the hammer, and as a power weapon at least in the golem, the hammer surpassed the sword with more cc utility etc. 

The sword is one of this weapons like the rifle in thief that even with the weapon master training, doesn´t work outside his spec, in this case holosmith, so yeah we are kittened and is even funnier because the ball is only gonna get bigger, as more players create a new engineer after Soto more people are gonna have the problem.

I just want them to acknowledge it after more than half a year man, im not even angry, im just really tired for the first time in 12 years...

Edited March 22 by gglx.5286

[coffeeScryer.9432]

6 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

So i have now looked and yes suffer the bug lol So, given this likely will never be fixed how large is the DPS Loss for players suffering this? Lol 

Condi Holosmith is still okay, since that uses Pistol&Pistol. Unless they decide they don't want Condi Holo to be good anymore.

[jason.1083]

3 hours ago, gglx.5286 said:

The sword is one of this weapons like the rifle in thief that even with the weapon master training, doesn´t work outside his spec, in this case holosmith, so yeah we are kittened and is even funnier because the ball is only gonna get bigger, as more players create a new engineer after Soto more people are gonna have the problem.

And that's the worst part, they introduced the bug in an attempt to make Sword usable by non-Holos and now they decided to crap on Sword and go like "nah don't bother using Sword for your Pdps builds guys, use this hammer instead".

And now all of you guys are being screwed over a feature that no one makes use of anyway, it's mind blowing.

Just revert Sword changes and fix this kitten bug already. 

[Puck.3697]

2 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

nd now all of you guys are being screwed over a feature that no one makes use of anyway, it's mind blowing

Tbh I just came back to the game, kinda wish I found this out prior completing several LWS and have built 50% map completion lol

[jason.1083]

47 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

Tbh I just came back to the game, kinda wish I found this out prior completing several LWS and have built 50% map completion lol

Well hopefully with enough dedication and pressure from enough people we can have this fixed soon enough, and then you won't need to regret anything, you or anyone else in the same position.

And hopefully we can convince the balance team to revert the "balance" charges they made in the meantime.

[Fortunello.9853]

8 hours ago, coffeeScryer.9432 said:

Condi Holosmith is still okay, since that uses Pistol&Pistol. Unless they decide they don't want Condi Holo to be good anymore.

It´s true coffe but condi holo is problably one of the most complicated rotation in the game to play and require viper equipment wich is another big investment at least in fractal, holo power was going pretty fine with the sword to the point they have to nerf it, but to others that build with the sword on the downtime of the forge doesn,t even exist XD

[Fortunello.9853]

Also as i have said already please support the post in the bug section, is the place where i have compiled everything i have found, from post of other people affected by the same thing to the cause of the bug, the effects etc, is probably the most likely place for them to read it seen the "success" /s of the in game reports of this bug, yesterday i even send a message to rubi asking for help to deliver this problem to the company and i cannot do anymore than finding more support of other people affected and being an annoying old man (always whithout losing education) for the first time in 12 years of game until is fixed. 

 

Edited March 22 by gglx.5286

[Puck.3697]

12 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

Well hopefully with enough dedication and pressure from enough people we can have this fixed soon enough, and then you won't need to regret anything, you or anyone else in the same position

Tbh it’s not as much of a regret as a dissapointment, kinda terrible way to re-enter the game to be hit with something alike this. 

there are likely many engineers in game trying to practice holo rotations not understanding why they’re unable to pull numbers without knowing this issue exists,

I’m not a number chaser I play what I enjoy, however being by default lower Dps then players the same class because of the time of rolling my character feels awful. 

[Fortunello.9853]

18 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Tbh it’s not as much of a regret as a dissapointment, kinda terrible way to re-enter the game to be hit with something alike this. 

there are likely many engineers in game trying to practice holo rotations not understanding why they’re unable to pull numbers without knowing this issue exists,

I’m not a number chaser I play what I enjoy, however being by default lower Dps then players the same class because of the time of rolling my character feels awful. 

I mean im not a number player too but considering the low number of weapons the engineer have because of kits, i would like to use all the weapons like the way are intended and the sword hasn´t been working for months already for anything outside of open world (and pvp but because the bug doesn`t exist there) Im pretty sure in fact that they don`t even know about this bug, i want to believe that having a weapon broken for anyone coming new to the class is something big enough to not ignore it.

Edited March 23 by gglx.5286

[Puck.3697]

I haven’t much faith it will be fixed if Anet haven’t spoken of it / fixed it yet after 6 months, but miracles may happen. 

[jason.1083]

1 hour ago, Puck.3697 said:

I haven’t much faith it will be fixed if Anet haven’t spoken of it / fixed it yet after 6 months, but miracles may happen. 

What got me most discouraged was when I emailed support about the issue, with 3 clips of Refraction Cutter being used with a top-down camera view at <50, >50 and >100 heat, 2 blades in all 3 clips, and they still didn't understand what I was talking about, they thought I was talking about the Forge...

Then I was like "yup these guys don't know kitten about this class, can't even bother looking it up.

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

What got me most discouraged was when I emailed support about the issue, with 3 clips of Refraction Cutter being used with a top-down camera view at <50, >50 and >100 heat, 2 blades in all 3 clips, and they still didn't understand what I was talking about, they thought I was talking about the Forge...

Then I was like "yup these guys don't know kitten about this class, can't even bother looking it up.

Unfortunately yeah, engineer I don’t think is one they play at all, so prolly flown under the radar, I imagine it will take a while before enough do, whenever u mention this bug people go silent, no one seems to know this is a current issue,

Likely due to how unplayed the class is to begin with, I tried multiple discords to discuss this, met with 0 response, maybe I should just play my ele or Mesmer for now 

[Fortunello.9853]

20 hours ago, jason.1083 said:

What got me most discouraged was when I emailed support about the issue, with 3 clips of Refraction Cutter being used with a top-down camera view at <50, >50 and >100 heat, 2 blades in all 3 clips, and they still didn't understand what I was talking about, they thought I was talking about the Forge...

Then I was like "yup these guys don't know kitten about this class, can't even bother looking it up.

I only received the usual response of "yeah yeah send an ingame report and our quality asurance team will check it" jajajaja.

17 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Unfortunately yeah, engineer I don’t think is one they play at all, so prolly flown under the radar, I imagine it will take a while before enough do, whenever u mention this bug people go silent, no one seems to know this is a current issue,

Likely due to how unplayed the class is to begin with, I tried multiple discords to discuss this, met with 0 response, maybe I should just play my ele or Mesmer for now 

Talking with more engineers in game trying to find support so people at least report it in game i have find that one of the usual response is that they are not worry because they don´t use sword, the mechanist was the spec that increase the number of playes of the engineer class to the level of the hight ones like guardian ranger etc in open world but crearly holosmith is still not popular even to new players seeing how many new people haven´t notice that the sword is broken in his character.