Hot Take: Boon Strips/Corrupts are not the solution.

[Nash.2681]

7 minutes ago, Zephyrus.9680 said:

[...], we just need boon strips buffed again to a level where there is counterplay. And preferably added to more specs.

Exactly what I wrote. Unfortunatly at the current state of permanent boon farting, there will never be enough boonstrip due to constant reapplication of boons. We would need the ability to constantly remove boons, which would be absolutly silly. Thus the idea of meaningful boon removal opening windows of opportunity. And the only solution I see without changing all classes, traits and skills from scratch would be the addition of a unique and unremovable "prevents the application of boons for x seconds" debuff.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 4/23/2024 at 5:53 PM, Zephyrus.9680 said:

When there's enough, boon strips work fine though. It's only an issue when they're over nerfed. The situation now is that boon balls can even just sit in one spot and with the right comp almost nothing can touch them. From a balance perspective that is silly and looks terrible setting in one spot for 5 minutes taking no damage. But we don't need a silver bullet to make all boons useless, we just need boon strips buffed again to a level where there is counterplay. And preferably added to more specs.

Knowing by Anet fixes... for sure they will had more boons to adress the to many boons rather than change something in the boon spam that adress the reality of the game, actually if they adressed this way i would just say "everything as i foreseen"....

Joking asside IMO changes on how boons stacks and  remove certain stats from game like misntrell (because theres no other perfect stats for boon suport and defense at the same time) would mostly  fix the problem, but the real issue here and  the most serious one is that the problem is the reality that Anet believes game the should happen it is not ment to be anything balanced at all, so at the end Anet will be reluctant to adress anything that improves gameplay for better overall cause the current game we assist and the many issues is how Anet seams to want the game to happen, for example all balances patches that happened is to normalize classes for the boon fart  left & right even making active skills weaker and adding boons to make them more apealing to boon spam gameplay, so the real problem of the game will never be adressed at the end, the problem is ANET itself if they dont change, c´mon they love blob boon balls and PVD and they dotn want it any other way...

And I leave an advice to @ANET* due how blob makes groups strong and VERY dull due how boon works atm, support stats should be difficult to get high boon duration (this way would promote active gameplay in 1st place than stack and spam) reason the removal on minstrell stats should be a must and later reintruduce  celestial and minstrell stats to something more balanced towards other stats, atm this is  what needs to be done to put some sanity check on the game

Game needs more active strong support mechanics rather  the spam and stack  gameplay.

Edited April 28 by Aeolus.3615

[DeceiverX.8361]

On 4/17/2024 at 4:02 PM, ShadowStep.3640 said:

It feels like everyone wants the amount of strips/corrupts to be buffed way up to previous levels and even surpassing it. But combating boon bloat with massive strips just causes the flow of combat to feel like pendulum which is chaotic and wouldn't feel good. The better solution is to change the ways boons are generated, and primarily, shared to other players in WvW. 

Currently, boons are shared giving both the caster and the recipients the same boon duration. Example: Stand Your Ground gives 5 second Resolution and 6 seconds Stability to both the user and allies. Instead boons should give original duration to the user and half duration to allies. If you grant yourself 10 seconds regeneration, allies gain 5 seconds. You grant 4 seconds protection allies receive 2 seconds. This should obviously only be implemented in WvW as it would ruin PvE. Concentration would still benefit boon duration. 

 

Pros:

-Nerfs boon ball while still allowing for lots of boon generation.

-Makes counterplea easier and gives more value to corrupts and strips as boons are more valuable.

-Doesnt affect roamers/users generating boons. Allows them to still feel full impact of their abilities. 

-Raises skill ceiling of coordinated groups needing instances of stability/other high value boons rather than just vomiting them continuously. 

-Keeps individual player agency while still being able to generate support for allies but not allowing it to be excessive. 

-Encourages players to bring their own survivability in the form of utility skills (more value to bring my own stability vs relying on someone else)

Cons:

-Support players will feel their impact go down

-Players would need to adjust

-Low duration boons would be difficult to share

-Does not touch mechanics like barrier, auras, stealth

-idk maybe others.

The problem is and always has been applications being excessive and duration being scaled via the concentration stat in ways which the base durations more or less can't be balanced due to the variance.  Delete concentration and like half the problem goes away.

People saying there need to be more corrupts and strips are looking at the problem just like ANet has historically done with everything else:  nerfing symptoms, rather than source of problems.  If you enable mass corrupts/strips, all builds suffer, not just the ones building for boon support.  There are currently zero viable boonless builds to handle this case because ANet has pretty much made any build that leveraged unique effects also be converted into boons, or the options/available combinations are just bad.  This is especially problematic when it comes to corrupts.  Imagine being hit by permanent weakness because your build generates occasional incidental Might, and the necro you're fighting against is throwing a corrupt out every two seconds.

Nobody cares about Thrill of the Crime or Forceful Greatsword being oppressive boon sources.  But they do absolutely define to some extent how classes like Thief/War can engage and play as a whole within the time frames they provide said power.

[Chaos God.1639]

I think that changing/nerfing how the boons work atm will just make organized/superior teams even more superior.

the changes will create a higher learning curve and players will die more. players will be frustrated more and probably quit wvw even faster or just go afk. it looks like some players think that when you die more, then you will play more and won't get frustrated.

we will get the same situation we are having right now when both teams are equally strong and after they learned how to use the boons correctly.

also keep in mind that this is wvw and not 1 vs 1. this is like a rts game where everybody controls their character. just making the boons to have higher learning curve shouldn't make the team, who knows how to use boons correctly, immortal. Macro gameplay is also important. 

Edited April 28 by Chaos God.1639
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[Aeolus.3615]

15 hours ago, Chaos God.1639 said:

I think that changing/nerfing how the boons work atm will just make organized/superior teams even more superior.

the changes will create a higher learning curve and players will die more. players will be frustrated more and probably quit wvw even faster or just go afk. it looks like some players think that when you die more, then you will play more and won't get frustrated.

we will get the same situation we are having right now when both teams are equally strong and after they learned how to use the boons correctly.

also keep in mind that this is wvw and not 1 vs 1. this is like a rts game where everybody controls their character. just making the boons to have higher learning curve shouldn't make the team, who knows how to use boons correctly, immortal. Macro gameplay is also important. 

That totally depends  how it is executed, less players being carried with tanky and permanent boons all at the same time, by just removing minstrel gear will actually makes new players more effective as well agains a boon ball, all the stats that are left for boon duration don't have  the same  durability/sturdiness which will make groups have to rely  less on stats and boons alone like we have today (boons would be more chaotic and that would be a good thing), if one want high values those stats have no boon duration or one is  still squishy,  the problem is actually being supper tanky will all perma boons.

There's also celestial  stats  that have more total stats than any other stats but imo that's another topic, or maybe.. do  something like:

Change celestial and minstrel stats to:

Celestial stats, gets boon duration and healing power out since it has around more 46 stats if I recall more than the total of other stats.

Minstrell, make this stats similar to celestial but remove toughness and vitality.

Note perma quickness is also to strong, when I am in a small group that beat a bigger one just because we had perm quickness i feel totally carried and stupid...wining by just having a boon permanent over the  enemy  should not happen, sometimes I am on the other side of the fight when Ic a permanent group with permanent quickness I just pull back and see the group wiped instantly, it is just stupid being carried by such boon.

Solution is to make quickness something like superspeed, give it a  static value, this way becomes a windows of opportunity rather a passive due how much stacking happens.

 

TDLR : boons can carry and a lot that is totally the antagonist of a good balance.

Edited April 29 by Aeolus.3615