New PvP update

[Izzy.2951]

1 hour ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

There are plenty of fast paced games that have had success for esports that have done better than any mmo I have ever seen

Which game has fast pace as GW2 as the same time of having from F1 to F7, 10 skills (weapon swap), another 5 utilitys, dodge, weapon swap, cancel skills etcetc.... none. There are fast mobas, shooters etc... and they all have 1/3 of gw2 buttons, aswell as more visual clarity.

Cos i play SMITE for example that is one of the most succesful MOBAS and oh men you dont have the keyboard spam of gw2 by any chance (1/3 of the buttons) aswell as you see whats happening 100% better.

Edited May 16 by Izzy.2951

[Endo.1652]

8 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Which game has fast pace as GW2 as the same time of having from F1 to F7, 10 skills (weapon swap), another 5 utilitys, dodge, weapon swap, cancel skills etcetc.... none. There are fast mobas, shooters etc... and they all have 1/3 of gw2 buttons, aswell as more visual clarity.

Cos i play SMITE for example that is one of the most succesful MOBAS and oh men you dont have the keyboard spam of gw2 by any chance (1/3 of the buttons) aswell as you see whats happening 100% better.

You said i was wrong and said it was the pace. Now youre talking about the complexity and the visual clutter of an MMO which is literally what i said is the problem. It has nothing to do with the pace. 

[Izzy.2951]

4 hours ago, Endorphin.9147 said:

You said i was wrong and said it was the pace. Now youre talking about the complexity and the visual clutter of an MMO which is literally what i said is the problem. It has nothing to do with the pace. 

Yeah it does, its not the same a game that is fast pace or even a bit slower than gw2 with 5 skills than gw2 with 25 skills. 1st) its not popular and its not done in any popular game, 2nd) it create a complete fiesta to watch/play a game and see whats happening.

So yeah having a so fast pace with so many skills, about face etcetc... makes the game a clown fiesta. And its never gonna be popular doesnt matter how much money can Anet drop on it.

However throwing a new pvp conquest map and some changes here and there every 3 years wouldnt hurt anyone.

Edited May 17 by Izzy.2951

[Sahne.6950]

imo, tho pace isnt reaaally the problem....  it undoubtably got faster over the years, but there is games that are doing just fine with way wayyy faster combat.

 

The 1 big, glaring issue is  VISIBILITY.

the problem has 2 facets.  

first:  CLUTTER      i mean... look at that picture... there is supposed to be 5 players there, but you can only see 1... the others are completly flooded with sparkling effects and numbers.... also the AoE´s..... there is roughly 10 red circles there... only 1 of them has a actual animation.. the rest are just red circles.... what they are.... idk.... dont step on them i guess.....

And secondly:  the big disconnection between the animation of skills, and the actual impact, in terms of "how much does it hurt me if i get hit by it".  Best example would be Catalyst spheres.    There is just too many skills that have borderline no animation but will delete 50% of your healthbar.... and there is just as much skills that have the biggest most flashy animation.... and they hit you for 5.

 

Combine those two together, and you have a game that is 1) a nightmare to watch, unless you know the game very well, and 2) a nightmare to pick up for new players... because...well... you cant rely on the visuals.... so the learning curve consists of alot of " dang that actually hurt alot.... what was it?

Those are the biggest problems imo.   

Bad balancing plays its role too... but having clear visuals is even more important, if you want to get new people into the game.

The pace isnt the actual problem.....   the problem is keeping up with the pace, in a game that is near unreadable.  

Edited May 17 by Sahne.6950

[Frequency.6407]

Maybe they designed catalyst spheres to be absolute nukes when deployed (hence, the animation) and then somewhere down the road they decided that they need to tone down the damage.

Can be true for other skills as well, like dragontooth. It used to do very little damage, then they buffed it to do a lot of damage but then it was toned down again. Adjusting damage numbers is easy but playing around with animations might not be that easy.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 5/17/2024 at 7:58 AM, Sahne.6950 said:

 

first:  CLUTTER      i mean... look at that picture... there is supposed to be 5 players there, but you can only see 1... the others are completly flooded with sparkling effects and numbers.... also the AoE´s..... there is roughly 10 red circles there... only 1 of them has a actual animation.. the rest are just red circles.... what they are.... idk.... dont step on them i guess.....

And secondly:  the big disconnection between the animation of skills, and the actual impact, in terms of "how much does it hurt me if i get hit by it".  Best example would be Catalyst spheres.    There is just too many skills that have borderline no animation but will delete 50% of your healthbar.... and there is just as much skills that have the biggest most flashy animation.... and they hit you for 5.

Combine those two together, and you have a game that is 1) a nightmare to watch, unless you know the game very well, and 2) a nightmare to pick up for new players... because...well... you cant rely on the visuals.... so the learning curve consists of alot of " dang that actually hurt alot.... what was it?

 

Spot on. In fact this was in part what caused the original esports attempt to go sour. unreadable game + choices didnt matter anyway because it was a bunker meta and game was dictated by whichever team had the slightly faster guard.

Skill animation disconnect is wild too. the fact that it takes gameplay knowledge to know you can eat CTTB or Executioner's scythe, but not phoenix or larcenous strike, is kinda silly. Not to mention the fact that in an atmosphere where skill balance is designed like that, there happens to be classes built around big showy telegraphs that need to land those to activate half their traitlines...

but insufferable bias digression aside

I still think a healthy meta is doable, and largely we have been moving somewhat in that direction, but it will take a stack of constantly good-direction balance patches to get there. It's gonna be rough. 

Edited May 18 by Azure The Heartless.3261