Haven't Seen A PvP Holo Since the Nerf

[shion.2084]

Great Job Anet.  That's one of the few classes a scrapper has a reasonable chance against 🙂

[working class hero.2175]

I feel like there’s still a decent amount in gold 1-2 where I usually hover (I play it too), it’s a fan favorite for us scrubs. Def feels much worse 

[shion.2084]

I've been looking for my usual opponents since the nerf.... they're on alt toons or not present.  Haven't had one good match-up to test out the effect yet.

[N A T E.3108]

Pre-patch, Holo was relatively high damage in the right hands, but it's heavily telegraphed, largely melee-range-dependent, and very squishy. It also wasn't over performing in comparison to any other meta class before the patch. Damage was its one saving-grace, but with the 50% SD nerf, the Flashbang nerf, and the consequential compounding amount of sustain loss, it inevitably will go sit the bench the rest of the engi specs in oblivion. There are just too many other classes that deal heavy damage, have considerable CC capabilities, sustain like bunkers, and require half the skill to pull off effectively.

Such is the engi way of life.

ALIEN

Edited June 3 by N A T E.3108

[Flowki.7194]

It makes no sense tbf, it isn't as if holo was common, almost enitrely due to it being hard to do well with. Should be encouraging that, not nerfing it. Backwards.

[Sereath.1428]

I figured out a while ago that anything with high skill ceilings will always keep getting nerfed.
They keep trying to reach an imaginary scenario where everything is equally represented, equally rewarding.
And that is completely incompatible with rewarding risk. And so skill expression will continue to disappear.

"We have to make classes and specs with 5 effects in a single button/F1 as rewarding as those that have to cycle through an entire bar or more. Same with resource costs and management. It shouldn't matter, everything should be equally rewarding, no matter how hard or easy it is to do.
Everyone is a winner. Everyone should be equally rewarded for their uNiQue playstyle:
Low Risk / High Reward
High Risk / High Mid Reward"
S0lars's legacy lives on.

Edited June 3 by Sereath.1428

[whooot.5784]

As a thief I personally really enjoy this holo nerf. Lock-on gave me ptsd

[Last Crab.6054]

1 hour ago, whooot.5784 said:

As a thief I personally really enjoy this holo nerf. Lock-on gave me ptsd

A nerf needed for years, not harsh enough imo, but it is a step.

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, whooot.5784 said:

As a thief I personally really enjoy this holo nerf. Lock-on gave me ptsd

You really enjoy the nerf of a high skill floor spec that was one of the few mechanical thief counters? Sounds about right. You don't need to talk about how easy lock on was, we all know it was about as easy as through terrain steal jumps, yet holos were rare, and thieves are a dime a dozen.

Edited June 3 by Flowki.7194

[Shagie.7612]

ok i'll go with the unpopular opinion
holo being utterly immune to conditions was dumb and it really wasn't proportionally weak to strike in exchange for it. it's still really good against them, but it was excessive.
and having a bunch of random zero animation zero cast time damage through traits/toolbelt is also really silly, quite honestly

but i dunno if a 50% nerf to the cooldown of surprise shot/accelerator and a nerf to lock on are the way to go about changing those, rather than some sort of larger overall changes

[Last Crab.6054]

24 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You really enjoy the nerf of a high skill floor spec that was one of the few mechanical thief counters? Sounds about right. You don't need to talk about how easy lock on was, we all know it was about as easy as through terrain steal jumps, yet holos were rare, and thieves are a dime a dozen.

holos must be a synonym for thief, lets not call any engi build high skill floor lmao

[Flowki.7194]

24 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

holos must be a synonym for thief, lets not call any engi build high skill floor lmao

It has a higher skill floor than thief, you just need to abuse thief mobility, learn to +1 (spaming one button is enough) and then you are a semi-useful back capping bot who can +1 players multiple elo higher. As if the avg holo has that impact.

Edited June 3 by Flowki.7194

[Last Crab.6054]

Just now, Flowki.7194 said:

It has a higher skill floor than thief, you just need to abuse thief mobility, learn to +1 (spaming one button is enough) and then you are a semi-useful back capping bot who can +1 a players multiple elo higher. As if the avg holo has that impact.

Odd how the top players don't choose thief as their goto when wanting to make progress. 

I guess when at silver tier, no doubt, thief makes an impact. 

But skill floors change when it matters.

[Flowki.7194]

1 minute ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

Odd how the top players don't choose thief as their goto when wanting to make progress. 

I guess when at silver tier, no doubt, thief makes an impact. 

But skill floors change when it matters.

But again, in reality, for every 1 plat holo, their were probably 50 thieves in gold. Poor thieves, having to deal with 1 decent holo every 100th game or so.

[Last Crab.6054]

4 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

But again, in reality, for every 1 plat holo, their were probably 50 thieves in gold. Poor thieves, having to deal with 1 decent holo every 100th game or so.

More holos in Plat is that what this means?

Like I said

[Flowki.7194]

9 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

More holos in Plat is that what this means?

Like I said

You basically cannot comprehend what I'm saying, there were less holo than thieves, plat or not. The chance of any thief going up against a holo, was far lower than any other classes going up against a thief.

[Last Crab.6054]

7 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You basically cannot comprehend what I'm saying, there were less holo than thieves, plat or not. The chance of any thief going up against a holo, was far lower than any other classes going up against a thief.

I'm basically saying you are delusional in thinking that a holo takes more skill than thief to compete at high levels.

I'll even go as far to say it takes more skill at most levels.

You are trying to say thief is just decap and +1 = success.

LOL, it might be hard for a weaver and cata main to acknowledge skill. (those dont have any)

Edited June 4 by Last Crab.6054

[Flowki.7194]

13 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

I'm basically saying you are delusional in thinking that a holo takes more skill than thief to compete at high levels.

I'll even go as far to say it takes more skill at most levels.

You are trying to say thief is just decap and +1 = success.

LOL, it might be hard for a weaver and cata main to acknowledge skill. (those dont have any)

Again unable to comprehend the skill floor, not the skill ceiling. Less holos are in the game becuase it is a harder, more punishing spec, the same reason there are always less hammer catas, less firebrands, less heralds, less anything that gets hard punished for mistakes, and becomes dead weight unless true gold3 to p1 skill at it. DD thief is low risk past potatoe level play, DE basically put that on steriods.. gets stealth just for not being afk, they have far more impact on the game at sub-pro becuase of the crutch mobility. 

 

There were very few holos in gold, and when I was g3 playing off peak, there were still very few plat holos in my games. That litterally means 95% of thieves probably never faced a p2+ holo.. which is the point I am making. Yet, we all have to deal with low risk thieves +1ing through walls.

Edited June 4 by Flowki.7194

[Last Crab.6054]

33 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Again unable to comprehend the skill floor, not the skill ceiling. Less holos are in the game becuase it is a harder, more punishing spec, the same reason there are always less hammer catas, less firebrands, less heralds, less anything that gets hard punished for mistakes, and becomes dead weight unless true gold3 to p1 skill at it. DD thief is low risk past potatoe level play, DE basically put that on steriods.. gets stealth just for not being afk, they have far more impact on the game at sub-pro becuase of the crutch mobility. 

 

There were very few holos in gold, and when I was g3 playing off peak, there were still very few plat holos in my games. That litterally means 95% of thieves probably never faced a p2+ holo.. which is the point I am making. Yet, we all have to deal with low risk thieves +1ing through walls.

I am saying, that there are NOT LESS holos in the game. 

Reading comprehension bro, I can't even with you...holy sheeeeeet

[Flowki.7194]

10 minutes ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

I am saying, that there are NOT LESS holos in the game. 

Reading comprehension bro, I can't even with you...holy sheeeeeet

Ok bud, good night.

[Last Crab.6054]

26 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Ok bud, good night.

BYE

[Gotejjeken.1267]

1 hour ago, Last Crab.6054 said:

Odd how the top players don't choose thief as their goto when wanting to make progress. 

They do though? 

Lot of top players main DE (like Sidrender), and DE is pretty much in most comp'd scenarios / duos because of the mobility of it.  

It was between holo and DE for what the duo/comp burst class was, but now it isn't even a choice.  

Regardless, there are definitely not more holos in plat than thieves--there's probably more vindicators than holos and that was even before the holo nerf.  

On NA btw

[Last Crab.6054]

Just now, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

They do though? 

Lot of top players main DE (like Sidrender), and DE is pretty much in most comp'd scenarios / duos because of the mobility of it.  

It was between holo and DE for what the duo/comp burst class was, but now it isn't even a choice.  

Regardless, there are definitely not more holos in plat than thieves--there's probably more vindicators than holos and that was even before the holo nerf.  

On NA btw

You named one player, who is probably one of the GOATS...one player lmao

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Just now, Last Crab.6054 said:

You named one player, who is probably one of the GOATS...one player lmao

Boyce is probably one of the ranger GOATs...what is the point? Are we saying there are no rangers in plat?

Why would anyone play holo over DE anyway unless bored? It was far less forgiving no matter what scenario, why would you just choose it to be hipster? 

There's way too many thieves in g3 and above atm.  

[Last Crab.6054]

15 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Boyce is probably one of the ranger GOATs...what is the point? Are we saying there are no rangers in plat?

Why would anyone play holo over DE anyway unless bored? It was far less forgiving no matter what scenario, why would you just choose it to be hipster? 

There's way too many thieves in g3 and above atm.  

i dont see that many, was watching plenty of fotm rangers tho