Idea on making pvp better place.

[CroTiger.7819]

This is what i think would make pvp better place and satisfy both solo quers and ppl wanting to play as full team. I will just jump on actual idea of my copium ranked and unranked and how at-s will act in all of that.

1. Unranked Arena: This is now called Random Arena and you are allowed to only solo que into it. The matches are now not lasting until 500 points but 300 points instead. If you win match the timer starts and if you dont leave in next 30 sec you will stick with your team. If someone leaves you can get another random and still stay with most of the team. Since there is no rating in Random Arena winning match will give you 1 point. Every win in a streak will give you additional 1 point up to 5 wins in a row which is limit. So if you win all games in row (5max) you get 15 points for the title which makes it rewarding to stay in teams over waiting for perfect team. This way communication gets important inside this random teams since you will stick longer with each other and you can choose to not stay in toxic team/too bad comp teams. 

Pros about this: 1. Meaningfull conversation, 2. More fast paced and more rewarding for winning win streak, 3. No more duo ques and more fair random experience while being able to stick with team so you have choice even in random group, 4. No rating loss and no more waiting for 500 points to go to finish because you are forcing new players to concentrate for long matches without actual reason since they are not capable of doing so. 5. Alot more experimenting of builds and ppl sticking to their roles because of reasons 1 and 4.

 

2. Ranked Arena: This now is the full team que and matches last till 500 points. Leaderboard is now affected by playing AT-s too while entrance to monthly AT would be rating of plat1+ (or just top50/100 teams) and there would be no rating loss in Monthlys.

Pros about this: 1. you can finally play with friends and form teams to experiment stuff without need of specific time on top of already busy lifes most ppl live, 2. you can choose to play AT-s for additional rewards and still play as team when it finishes, 3. you cant blame things such as wintrading etc for your lost matches which makes it fair and more valuable information on self improvment.

I could go on but this 3. points is already enough to see how this would improve social aspect of game and in same time make more healthy environment for breaking the loop effects we all experience playing the current version of Ranked.

 

I didn t mentioned the flaws but thats what i want to hear from feedback if there is any... I know what some of you will say about 5man que so ill state this before since i dont wanna hear same loop.

PvP is dead and it would make full premade Ranked death. Answer is let it be death than because it means both AT-s and team play is death in case im writing. Better have fair games where you can only blame yourself than having random aspect as burden/cage of some fictional thing called rating while still playing no less of a death gamemode.

 

Edited June 7 by CroTiger.7819

[arazoth.7290]

What about pvp guildmissions? Some ppl might do that

[Bladestrom.6425]

Before replying we should consider what are the requirements:

- All players should have fair and equal access to ranked and unranked.  This is especially relevant to solo players which forms the majority of the player base (and always does in PVE centric AAA MMORPG)  

- Players who want to group should have access to content where there is enough grouping players to support it.  

- A Pug Groups should NEVER have to face a pre formed group including 2 player teams as this is fundamentally unfair, unless the pug is given a tactical advantage to even the playfield ( an option never discussed, but viable - we see it in other games).  As an rough example, if you are in a pug facing a non pug team then pug players get 5% more vitality.

- Positive play should be rewarded as a way to discourage toxic behaviour such as afking.

With regards to suggested options above it does not address any of these points and is skewed to favour a minority (grouped players).  As a counter proposal I would suggest:

- Both Ranked and Unranked is solo only.  

- Anet setup more tournaments for groups and a new 5 man Ranked Group queue with an independent mirror of the ranking system and stats.

- Additional rewards for those who achieve simultaneously in both Ranked Solo and Ranked Grouped

- Add more Top stats that focuses on positive behaviour and are more generous, for example 'In Combat' Top Stat rewards the top 3 players and gives a decent reward.  

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by Bladestrom.6425

[Flowki.7194]

Lock the MMR range, its so bad you can probably finish top 250 in g2 next season

[Bladestrom.6425]

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Lock the MMR range, its so bad you can probably finish top 250 in g2 next season

That's a side effect of the issues the OP is discussing not a root cause.

[Flowki.7194]

2 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

That's a side effect of the issues the OP is discussing not a root cause.

MMr lock would solve half of the problems, the rest is high reward low effort/risk specs. Coping on virt, spb, druid, SPB.. what ever can give them 150% sustain for 50% effort.

 

Edited June 7 by Flowki.7194

[Bladestrom.6425]

Just now, Flowki.7194 said:

MMr lock would solve half of the problems, the rest is high reward low effort specs

 

no the problem is not MMR, MMR is well evolved, its low population skewing the matching

[CroTiger.7819]

51 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

Before replying we should consider what are the requirements:

- All players should have fair and equal access to ranked and unranked.  This is especially relevant to solo players which forms the majority of the player base (and always does in PVE centric AAA MMORPG)

- A Pug Groups should NEVER have to face a pre formed group including 2 player teams as this is fundamentally unfair, unless the pug is given a tactical advantage to even the playfield ( an option never discussed, but viable - we see it in other games).  As an rough example, if you are in a pug facing a non pug team then pug players get 5% more vitality.

- Positive play should be rewarded as a way to discourage toxic behaviour such as afking.

With regards to suggested options above it does not address any of these points and is skewed to favour a minority (grouped players).

This majority already has all the content in this game why would something considered ranked be so casual driven ?

And what i writen is actually rly fair since you could solo que and everyone else is solo que in random arena. Ofc this type would need unique rewards for reaching certain title ranks and rewards would be same for random and ranked. Only difference is ranked being full premade and rating driven meanwhile random would be solo que title driven. I just don t see why ppl think ranked would need to be this random aswell cus it loose compettive aspect of it and makes toxic environment. That doesnt mean that this random arena wont be competitive just because its not dependent on rating but on title instead.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 7 by CroTiger.7819

[Bladestrom.6425]

5 minutes ago, CroTiger.7819 said:

 

its not fair because it does not address the requirements ( all content for all people and no pug versus non pug)  not giving the majority (solo players) ranked play is also obviously not fair.

[CroTiger.7819]

And due to all respect i would still probly mostly play solo que random arena since i have bad schedule because of real life stuff. I don t rly care for rating even tho i have been from p1-p3 over this decade and mostly playing offmeta stuff and its just the idea of rating that kills the enjoyment for me. Random and Ranked should never be connected. I dont have problem with top teams being top teams and having this At rewards because they invested their time and mind into that. There are currently shady stuff on leaderboards because its not for the skill but most abuse of MMR. This rly push some undeveloped kids to waste their life instead creating fair environment for wheter solo or team.

[CroTiger.7819]

3 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

its not fair because it does not address the requirements ( all content for all people and no pug versus non pug)  not giving the majority (solo players) ranked play is also obviously not fair.

What is not fair about having solo que title based and team que rating based pls ? Do you want to tell me that because some ppl are lazy or busy to create teams need to destroy that option for others just because someone have no time to form team ? And as i say i probly also don t have time to create team now but there was times where i was able and not having this option is crazy for an MMO.

Edited June 7 by CroTiger.7819

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 minute ago, CroTiger.7819 said:

What is not fair about having solo que title based and team que rating based pls ? Do you want to tell me that because some ppl are lazy or busy to create teams need to destroy that option for others just because someone have no time to form team ? And as i say i probly also don t have time to create team now but there was times where i was able and not having this option is crazy for an MMO.

well that would depend on wether you genuinely want fair pvp for all or actually you have an agenda about a preferred format.

[Bladestrom.6425]

Fair pvp is very simple when you look at it with a neutral lens,   Its all types of content for all players (solo/grouped/ranked/non ranked) and fair play (MMR and not grouped v ungrouped)

Edited June 7 by Bladestrom.6425

[CroTiger.7819]

Just now, Bladestrom.6425 said:

well that would depend on wether you genuinely want fair pvp for all or actually you have an agenda about a preferred format.

The idea is to make it fair for all so ofc i want that otherwise i wouldn t write this. Btw i also played gw1 where competitive pvp was also title based with no rating lost but time wasted being only downside of loose and guess what. It was much more competitive than gw2 ever was. So no rating doesn t mean less rewards etc it just means less toxic environment. And yes it had Guild versus Guild where Guilds had their own rating but individuals was only about titles and again there is no reason mixing rating with full premade. But mixing rating with random is definition of not fun and toxic. I guarantee most flaming would stop if ranked was like this since you dont get double punished.

[CroTiger.7819]

1 minute ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

, fair pvp is very simple, its  all types of content for all players (solo/grouped/ranked/non ranked) and fair play (MMR and not grouped v ungrouped)

And what did i writed than wasn t available for all players ? Forming a team doesn t mean its unavailable for ppl btw.

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 minute ago, CroTiger.7819 said:

And what did i writed than wasn t available for all players ? Forming a team doesn t mean its unavailable for ppl btw.

cool as long as solo has access to ranked, and solo players don't have to fight against preformed groups then all is fair.  

[CroTiger.7819]

5 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

cool as long as solo has access to ranked, and solo players don't have to fight against preformed groups then all is fair.  

You have acces to play solo as solo vs others who play solo just because its not called ranked doesn t mean much. The proof is current state of ranked. It is just so you dont split this community even more. Its simple random arena and ranked arena. It is just simply toxic to mix random factor with rating. Random is always more healthy if title based. And winning 5 wins in a row with same random ppl is big of challange so i rly don t see a problem.

Edited June 7 by CroTiger.7819

[Bladestrom.6425]

4 minutes ago, CroTiger.7819 said:

You have acces to play solo as solo vs others who play solo just because its not called ranked doesn t mean much. The proof is current state of ranked. It is just so you dont split this community even more. Its simple random arena vs ranked arena. It is just simply toxic to mix random factor with rating. Random is always more healthy if title based. And winning 5 wins in a row with same random ppl is big of challange so i rly don t see a problem.

so you are not being fair at all.  Solo players want ranked and unraked play just like players who want to group with their friends.  Design a system that is fair for all and it works, be opinionated and it wont. The Toxicity is indeed in part a result of the mixing, but the answer is not take away ranked from solo players, but to give content to grouped and ungrouped.

Edited June 7 by Bladestrom.6425

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

34 minutes ago, Bladestrom.6425 said:

so you are not being fair at all.  Solo players want ranked and unraked play just like players who want to group with their friends.  Design a system that is fair for all and it works, be opinionated and it wont. The Toxicity is indeed in part a result of the mixing, but the answer is not take away ranked from solo players, but to give content to grouped and ungrouped.

absolutely right
best way to 'make pvp a better place' would be solo ranked and team ranked as 2 completely separate ranked arenas
keep unranked, keep ATs, maybe add rewards to unranked
soloqs make up more than 90% of the pvp population so to say they shouldn't have ranked is totally arbitrary and attempts to appeal to a niche teamq demographic that just isn't there

[CroTiger.7819]

56 minutes ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

absolutely right
best way to 'make pvp a better place' would be solo ranked and team ranked as 2 completely separate ranked arenas
keep unranked, keep ATs, maybe add rewards to unranked
soloqs make up more than 90% of the pvp population so to say they shouldn't have ranked is totally arbitrary and attempts to appeal to a niche teamq demographic that just isn't there

Ofc there is 90% solo que population in ranked left and its miserably small overall and thats excactly how we got to that point. You can t have unranked, ranked solo and ranked team because population is too low. So your solution is like ok i want to have Ranked this way and cry on forums about toxic behaviour unfair mm etc and give solutions to low playerbase to split it further more gj im speechless. This is some new woke propaganda on mmos. Im special snowflake i want to play everything solo in fcking mmo. Solution to you is RPG i guess.

Edited June 7 by CroTiger.7819

[CroTiger.7819]

Ranked with randoms is fail and its proven fail which cause toxic behaviour and match manipulations if rating is involved, if you can t see it i have no hope for the genre and im not some tryhard as this sounds. I would think that you are some legendary player from your answers but you are probably just snowflake acting like we all equals, we all should be god of arenas if we want to and totally miss the point of thread. The point is being semi casual mixed with comptetitive random and competitive team ques. I guess you like more full team unranked and its fair to you since you loose nothing but time which you obviously dont take serious since you all time here on forums.

[CroTiger.7819]

I guess its also fair for casuals to go que ranked for dailys and throw your rating to get their daily matches because they should be able to do that if they want to reason.

[oscuro.9720]

5 man queue in ranked, solo queue in ranked. The two pools are non-overlapping but affect individual rank the same. Add a permanent 1v1 mode. 
 

I really think the solo and 2 man queue system of PvP right now serves the dedicated PvP players but makes the experience overall less enjoyable and less engagable for the general population (though I could very well be wrong about this). 
 

I think adding a 1v1 mode with its own seasons would have high appeal to players even remotely interested in PvP because it distills PvP down to really finding out who is better. Duels in this game have been popular for a while and are some of the best expressions of the complexity of this combat system imo. 
 

again, my opinions. I’m sure not everyone will agree. 

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

7 hours ago, CroTiger.7819 said:

Ofc there is 90% solo que population in ranked left and its miserably small overall and thats excactly how we got to that point. You can t have unranked, ranked solo and ranked team because population is too low. So your solution is like ok i want to have Ranked this way and cry on forums about toxic behaviour unfair mm etc and give solutions to low playerbase to split it further more gj im speechless. This is some new woke propaganda on mmos. Im special snowflake i want to play everything solo in fcking mmo. Solution to you is RPG i guess.

its not much of a split if it's 9:1
almost everyone would and already does soloq ranked
i'm not woke i'm anti-woke against multiquetularism - against 5v1 ego-stroking and the majority population being forced to take a backseat to teamq idealists
if you want 5v5, go play ATs fr it's already there. What isn't there is soloq.
this post was fact-checked by real Batman and he says TRUE 👍

[oscuro.9720]

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

its not much of a split if it's 9:1
almost everyone would and already does soloq ranked
i'm not woke i'm anti-woke against multiquetularism - against 5v1 ego-stroking and the majority population being forced to take a backseat to teamq idealists
if you want 5v5, go play ATs fr it's already there. What isn't there is soloq.
this post was fact-checked by real Batman and he says TRUE 👍

I want to say I agree with what I think you’re saying in that you don’t want group-queueing in PvP. Or rather, I agree provided what you really mean is non-equivalent queue sizes.

I don’t agree with the AT argument. Sometimes I want to log in when I have 30-40 minutes, hop into a group with a group of 5 guildies, and run some PvP queues. But I can’t, and I don’t have any motivation to play PvP solo for the multitude of community issues. Unranked is just less competitive, I don’t play for dailies, and I want a competitive experience without having to be bound by tournaments. The game mode is *designed* for 5v5. Allowing 5 man queues is where it should start. Sure, restrict it to other 5 man queues, but the fact it is no an option for a ranked mode is quite silly to me, especially when 60% of pvp’s problem is having to deal with the randoms who sandbag and breathe salt.