How is vindicator balanced?

[Flowki.7194]

Just now, arazoth.7290 said:

more like herald, renegade has a bad design from start 

This ren build is much easier to pressure, not saying it is more effective at higher level, but less experianced revs would do far more dmg on it. Some guy gave me a build, he was using hammer/sword-shield. Its pretty tanky/forgiving for zerker rev.

[arazoth.7290]

4 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

This ren build is much easier to pressure, not saying it is more effective at higher level, but less experianced revs would do far more dmg on it. Some guy gave me a build, he was using hammer/sword-shield. Its pretty tanky/forgiving for zerker rev.

Try shortbow instead of hammer + sword/shield or GS for even more damage. Just being the team dps/ +1'ing, picking the lower ones fast off.

Shortbow is better for it because faster, which translates to faster passive resustain, ironically hammer is for this less good.

It's more forgiving indeed, you have to play more carefull and try to survive/ kite when getting jumped which is harder bc of kalla stance/F skills not helping enough in direct defense.

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 @arazoth.7290 actually i heard that there is a realy strong Renegades build around that is currently even better than hammer vindi but peops evade playing it cause its ways too easy to do dmg and survive on it xD. But don't ask me what build it exactly is ^^

[arazoth.7290]

55 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 @arazoth.7290 actually i heard that there is a realy strong Renegades build around that is currently even better than hammer vindi but peops evade playing it cause its ways too easy to do dmg and survive on it xD. But don't ask me what build it exactly is ^^

I already know which lol.

It has more weaknesses and is less versatile.

But with some more buffs and bc easier to play, this might become (if they keep up buffing it in these weird ways) the thing that will see more play in in low plat and everything lower then it.

It just needs some time for more ppl to see and still getting buffs. But it has more weaknesses imo. I would still prefere Core, Herald and vindi over it

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

10 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Try shortbow instead of hammer + sword/shield or GS for even more damage. Just being the team dps/ +1'ing, picking the lower ones fast off.

Shortbow is better for it because faster, which translates to faster passive resustain, ironically hammer is for this less good.

It's more forgiving indeed, you have to play more carefull and try to survive/ kite when getting jumped which is harder bc of kalla stance/F skills not helping enough in direct defense.

Shortbow is good until something outranges them. Other than that, it's actually kind of strong lately.

No where near as full of **** as Vindicator though. Vindicator seriously needs to be nerfed.

3 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 @arazoth.7290 actually i heard that there is a realy strong Renegades build around that is currently even better than hammer vindi but peops evade playing it cause its ways too easy to do dmg and survive on it xD. But don't ask me what build it exactly is ^^

There is a good build going around and I've been dueling them a lot lately, but I'd say that if Vindi were ranked S+ tier, this Ren build would be like an A- at best.

The Ren build is more of a duelist than it is a conquest build. In conquest, it doesn't survive well when focused by 2+ people. It's nothing like a Vindicator in that regard, who can spam sky dodges and make everyone's burst completely whiff for elongated amounts of time.

[Flowki.7194]

9 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 @arazoth.7290 actually i heard that there is a realy strong Renegades build around that is currently even better than hammer vindi but peops evade playing it cause its ways too easy to do dmg and survive on it xD. But don't ask me what build it exactly is ^^

 

Yeah ive been practicing a lot more over the past day or two on the power ren, played some virsions earlier last month or so, but this current build seems a lot better. Im not really good enough compared to core condi, so I am still learning the 1v1s with it, can't tell atm if it is spec or skill limitation in the fights I struggle with, or if the fights I win are of people who are just not use to fighting it. Decent players seem to kite out razor 1v1 (could be my bad timing for now), I will try Zorashes advice and use shortbow 5 to hold them in it a little longer. I still got slaughtered by decent SPBs, and still got slaughtered by Olive Tree on untamed, and I can't really see that changing, it was not even close, absolute mechanical outshining. On the other hand, it was holding out pretty well vs p1 vindis (could improve with more practive), but I personally would not feel that comfortable roaming alone vsing vindi/spb/good DE or untamed, it seems like +1 at my ability level. It does seem to be good at dueling most other specs aside from that, but again, maybe they are not use to it yet.

 

I kinde hope this doesnt become all that viable, it is quite easy damage in terms of skill floor, the ability to turn on a dime and chunk peoples health with dark-ice is pretty close to being toxic. A person can jump me, I can stunbreak for instant daze, and then follow up with big damage from ice+hammer abilitys for instant counter pressure, despite fking up and getting stun-jumped. Ren does need some kind of "gtf off me", but this doens't feel hard enough for the damage it spews out, really should not be hitting "great" or more status.

Edited Saturday at 04:19 PM by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 yes but you shouldnt compare IT with Spellbreaker or Untamed. Both Untamed and Spellbreaker are too strong when it comes to 1v1s right now. ^^ (specialy untamed since this one can also be played as both 1v1 and roaming)

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 yes but you shouldnt compare IT with Spellbreaker or Untamed. Both Untamed and Spellbreaker are too strong when it comes to 1v1s right now. ^^ (specialy untamed since this one can also be played as both 1v1 and roaming)

But they are in the game at current, and dictate play on sides, so have to be compared.

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

 I will try Zorashes advice and use shortbow 5 to hold them in it a little longer. 

heh, when did I say that for renegade😅, I mean yes it helps but when did I say that 😅

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 yes but you shouldnt compare IT with Spellbreaker or Untamed. Both Untamed and Spellbreaker are too strong when it comes to 1v1s right now. ^^ (specialy untamed since this one can also be played as both 1v1 and roaming)

 

1 hour ago, Flowki.7194 said:

 

Yeah ive been practicing a lot more over the past day or two on the power ren, played some virsions earlier last month or so, but this current build seems a lot better. Im not really good enough compared to core condi, so I am still learning the 1v1s with it, can't tell atm if it is spec or skill limitation in the fights I struggle with, or if the fights I win are of people who are just not use to fighting it. Decent players seem to kite out razor 1v1 (could be my bad timing for now), I will try Zorashes advice and use shortbow 5 to hold them in it a little longer. I still got slaughtered by decent SPBs, and still got slaughtered by Olive Tree on untamed, and I can't really see that changing, it was not even close, absolute mechanical outshining. On the other hand, it was holding out pretty well vs p1 vindis (could improve with more practive), but I personally would not feel that comfortable roaming alone vsing vindi/spb/good DE or untamed, it seems like +1 at my ability level. It does seem to be good at dueling most other specs aside from that, but again, maybe they are not use to it yet.

 

I kinde hope this doesnt become all that viable, it is quite easy damage in terms of skill floor, the ability to turn on a dime and chunk peoples health with dark-ice is pretty close to being toxic. A person can jump me, I can stunbreak for instant daze, and then follow up with big damage from ice+hammer abilitys for instant counter pressure, despite fking up and getting stun-jumped. Ren does need some kind of "gtf off me", but this doens't feel hard enough for the damage it spews out, really should not be hitting "great" or more status.

jup, this renegade build thrives on resustaining by doing damage, the more outgoing, the more incoming healing.

That's the weak spot of the build, if you get weakness condition on urself + are hitting people who have a support or have just lot of damage reduction uptime.

I see this if getting some more buffs being played more in low plat and below more popular. I hope not too much buffs because this is too easy for what it would reward if it would get more of these passive resustain buffs by just doing damage/existing.

[Flowki.7194]

18 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

heh, when did I say that for renegade😅, I mean yes it helps but when did I say that 😅

You said shortbow is better than hammer for ren? Guess I exstrapolated on bow5 to keep them pinned easier.

 

10 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

 

jup, this renegade build thrives on resustaining by doing damage, the more outgoing, the more incoming healing.

That's the weak spot of the build, if you get weakness condition on urself + are hitting people who have a support or have just lot of damage reduction uptime.

I see this if getting some more buffs being played more in low plat and below more popular. I hope not too much buffs because this is too easy for what it would reward if it would get more of these passive resustain buffs by just doing damage/existing.

You know exacatly that if anything, that is wahts going to happen. Its what the game has given in every patch for 2 year straight 😜 Easier damage, easier sustain. Ren is basically looking like the DH of rev.

Edited Saturday at 06:22 PM by Flowki.7194

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

You said shortbow is better than hammer for ren? Guess I exstrapolated on bow5 to keep them pinned easier.

😜

Shortbow in general with these traits because it's faster then hammer the damage coordinated with kalla. Also because it's faster and being able to proc more IO from assassin stance with shortbow for more damage then hammer

Shortbow just feels better with it then hammer and I love hammer 😂

Only downsides less active defenses, shorter range and projectiles. If pulsing blinds was on skill 4, it could solve a few things for revenant.

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Shortbow in general with these traits because it's faster then hammer the damage coordinated with kalla. Also because it's faster and being able to proc more IO from assassin stance with shortbow for more damage then hammer

Shortbow just feels better with it then hammer and I love hammer 😂

Only downsides less active defenses, shorter range and projectiles. If pulsing blinds was on skill 4, it could solve a few things for revenant.

Yeah I am the opposite on this, shortbow is by far my fav weapon but hammer just feels better. I think its the lack of defense in general, so hammer 3 offers something if they have stab/blocks.

 

I've been trying shortbow+hammer though, and the hybrid virsion tonight, with heretic/tablet over shiro. It won a few condi tempests, still not winning SPBs. Something different to play at-least.

Edited Saturday at 08:56 PM by Flowki.7194