Spear damage

[Brandon.8294]

38 minutes ago, Arcosa.9123 said:

If there was a weapon to highlight Weaver, it should have been this one.

Weaver hasn't gotten a great weapon choice since Sword. Our last two weapons, Hammer and Pistol, don't have great functionality on Weaver. Condi Pistol Weaver benches fine, but it's pretty terrible to play.

I actually came around to enjoying pistol on weaver. I just wish it wasn’t so clunky.

[draxynnic.3719]

21 hours ago, wgpa.5047 said:

FA spear power tempest is up to 45k, BttH spear power tempest is up to 42k, Spear power catalyst is up to 43k... Just swap your spec if you want to play spear. Weaver is a bit of a meme on spear right now, but i don't think every spec should be great with every weapon so i feel like thats ok. 

The problem is that tempest and PvE catalyst are still melee specs, so if getting good results means playing one of those, the whole "did we mention that spear is 1200 range" thing is wasted.

[The Ghost.3087]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

The problem is that tempest and PvE catalyst are still melee specs, so if getting good results means playing one of those, the whole "did we mention that spear is 1200 range" thing is wasted.

Exactly, we seriously need the devs to update the Utilities and the Talent system to match that range. Currently, even if you get a Spear you still need to fight close combat as a melee even though you have a ranged weapon, simply because Jade Sphere and Overloads are local casts around you. For example if they update the talent system and add within the Utility a passive skill that detects your weapon and for example if you use a Range weapon like Spear, then the Overloads can be casted on the enemy from a range as a target, and the Ele should still get its buffs even if they are not within the Overload range. Pretty much something like what the "Feel the Burn" does but more like passive reaction to Overloads.

Of course, for players who are within the Overload field will still get these buffs, while the Tempest will get them automatically and then they can use "Feel the Burn" to spread out the buffs to other range characters who aren't within the range of the Overloads. 

Same can be done for Jade Sphere, simply at cast the players who are within the range of the cast will get the buffs, the Catalyst gets them regardless if they are within the cast range or not and then they can use "Relentless Fire" to spread them to other players nearby who weren't within the cast field for example. For balance they can require Relentless Fire to be cast within the Fire Element attunement while Jade Sphere is still active on the field.

Devs should seriously consider that when you are making a range weapon for a class like the Elementalists who has been worked out to be melee, there should be passive buffs with the Spear or the talents system that detects what weapon the player uses and therefore, switch mechs around to benefit the player and not punish him for playing a range class. If they can do that for Chronomancers, I see zero problem why they cannot make it so for Eles. 

Edited August 23 by The Ghost.3087

[Jski.6180]

In wvw at least spear seems like a burst dmg wepon where you can hit for 7k to 10k on your major build up skills. You dmg falls off when you have to do DPS in longer fights.

Skills on long delays and long cast time are the issues with spear more then the raw dmg. Spears skills need to be on 1/2 cast time maybe even 1/4 but 3/4 is way too long for an skill that dose only 2k-3k ish.

[igmolicious.5986]

On 8/23/2024 at 4:03 AM, Arcosa.9123 said:

If there was a weapon to highlight Weaver, it should have been this one.

Weaver hasn't gotten a great weapon choice since Sword. Our last two weapons, Hammer and Pistol, don't have great functionality on Weaver. Condi Pistol Weaver benches fine, but it's pretty terrible to play.

I still very much believe spear could be good on weaver if they'd just add a buff (stacking up to 3x) to its dual skills that pre-charges the next etching cast.

[Bladestrom.6425]

3 hours ago, igmolicious.5986 said:

I still very much believe spear could be good on weaver if they'd just add a buff (stacking up to 3x) to its dual skills that pre-charges the next etching cast.

it also has to do damage for superior elements proc

[Exzen.2976]

11 hours ago, Jski.6180 said:

In wvw at least spear seems like a burst dmg wepon where you can hit for 7k to 10k on your major build up skills. You dmg falls off when you have to do DPS in longer fights.

Skills on long delays and long cast time are the issues with spear more then the raw dmg. Spears skills need to be on 1/2 cast time maybe even 1/4 but 3/4 is way too long for an skill that dose only 2k-3k ish.

You can easily reach those numbers and higher on scepter and dagger skills which also having the ability to combo with others for higher burst, while being far easier to land. It's nowhere near the dmg output or burst of what ele already has. And with of those weapons can be paired with focus to ensure that you have strong defensives etc. I def agree cast times are an issue, spear cc is also mediocre at burst. The radius for the float on air 4 is laughably small. 

[Jski.6180]

8 minutes ago, Exzen.2976 said:

You can easily reach those numbers and higher on scepter and dagger skills which also having the ability to combo with others for higher burst, while being far easier to land. It's nowhere near the dmg output or burst of what ele already has. And with of those weapons can be paired with focus to ensure that you have strong defensives etc. I def agree cast times are an issue, spear cc is also mediocre at burst. The radius for the float on air 4 is laughably small. 

I am talking about the etch comboing you can do some real dmg to ppl. But after that your kind of spaming 1 setting up for the next etch. If the spear was faster and not 3/4 sec cast time i think spear would be a lot better over all. For at least wvw aimed game play.

[Eventine.8024]

On 8/21/2024 at 3:01 AM, ippy.9048 said:

Even if the damage doubled, they'd probably still say 'not enough,' which is a bit comical. I agree that #5 is still quite weak.

(talking about WvW) I literally do 200% more damage with Guardian or Engi wrt ele spear in WvW. And I'm MAIN ele since 2012. Even if the damage would be doubled it would ABSOLUTELY be NOT ENOUGH! Look at how hard you have to go on ele spear: etching, low life, tons of coordination, a lot of damage buffs, tons of skills in the right succession, etc. to do 2/3 of the damage of other classes. Other classes that press 2 buttons and do 10k dps/s and have tons of blocks, invuln, life, etc
Do you even know the meta?

Edited August 27 by Eventine.8024

[Eventine.8024]

BTW I just tested with some videos and the hero pannel open on the side:

•  stats: 3500 power, 100%crit, 255% crit damage,
• Modifiers: +69% damage modifier (nice)
  • +20% of the 3rd skill (NOT included in the 69%)
  • +25% when 4th skill (NOT included in the 69%)

Result: I was dealing 2k/4k crit damage. Sometimes Derecho was doing 6k.

Roughly looking at the base skill damage comparison between PvE vs WvW, it is 1/3 - 1/4 of the damage. And in PvE also the spear is quite bad (please if you are going to talk about golem benchmark Tempest spear read all other posts before commenting).

That's why we need more than double the current WvW damage. Because it is currently 1/4 of a bad baseline.

Just FYI, the auto-attack in fire on the staff is stronger than most of all spear abilities.

Edited August 28 by Eventine.8024

[The Ghost.3087]

On 8/28/2024 at 4:15 PM, Eventine.8024 said:

BTW I just tested with some videos and the hero pannel open on the side:

•  stats: 3500 power, 100%crit, 255% crit damage,
• Modifiers: +69% damage modifier (nice)
  • +20% of the 3rd skill (NOT included in the 69%)
  • +25% when 4th skill (NOT included in the 69%)

Result: I was dealing 2k/4k crit damage. Sometimes Derecho was doing 6k.

Roughly looking at the base skill damage comparison between PvE vs WvW, it is 1/3 - 1/4 of the damage. And in PvE also the spear is quite bad (please if you are going to talk about golem benchmark Tempest spear read all other posts before commenting).

That's why we need more than double the current WvW damage. Because it is currently 1/4 of a bad baseline.

Just FYI, the auto-attack in fire on the staff is stronger than most of all spear abilities.

He is absolutely right, and the most annoying thing is that I can't figure out why at one point the spear, even in open world PvE, does like 10k to 12k, standard damage and then it suddenly drops to 2k to 4k randomly for very long period of time, even though you do exactly the same rotation. It feels like there is some kind of bug plaguing the spear. 

[Bladestrom.6425]

1 hour ago, The Ghost.3087 said:

He is absolutely right, and the most annoying thing is that I can't figure out why at one point the spear, even in open world PvE, does like 10k to 12k, standard damage and then it suddenly drops to 2k to 4k randomly for very long period of time, even though you do exactly the same rotation. It feels like there is some kind of bug plaguing the spear. 

I would assume perfectly stacked ferocity with perhaps vuln stacks applied by others

[Vyseman.2947]

i always played Staff for WvW and now im in love with the Spear.. Finally a great ranged Weapon that doesnt feel super clunky and have decent Damage.  It only lacks a bit of Mobility and Selfheal/cleansing

[Mem no Fushia.7604]

As for spear being ranged weapon add 25% more damage to all autoattacks if hits range 1000+.

Secondly it could share effects of 3rd skills to allies in 600radious, it is: 5might and fury from fire, superspeed from air and barrier from earth and about water in landing place it could heal allies too (if not allies healed reduce recharge of this skill by half, something like Ride the Lightining but with allies instead foes.).

Lastly all spear's aoe could have more radious while in center of them more effective and in outter part of radious weaker.