Cancel Spellbreaker and Rework Rewards

[Aaron.1294]

@Flowki.7194What about Ranger, what about literally every meme bunker build before warrior or ranger - builds that everyone hate right when they appear. Even tho you may agree with me or not - warrior and Ranger are always the best sidenoder builds for balance as fragile as gw2 balance is because otherwise we get bunker standing still outhealers meme with no direction (and if it wasn't obvious already defence spellbreaker became healing spamming bs especially after Staff getting passive heal buffs and damage nerfs, heretics amulet being added to the game, and free alac relic...

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 what Bro wanted to say was..... a strength spellbreaker is forced to move out off the point when plused by any hard dmging class simply cause of 2 things. 

1. Most classes blind spamy as kitten so he has no Chance to counterplay anyhow in that Moment. (Aside If he uses revenge counter)

2. It does not Auto proc weakness as If you would do when played on Defence line. This means your ways faster dead when doing mistakes than u would be with Defence line

 

These are also the reason why strength spellbreaker is not meta but defence one is

[Hotride.2187]

2 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

But notice how normalised it is for an SPB to require a 2v1 to push off point.. as if that is ok. Then you go on to thief, as if all specs are not absolutely prone to being +1d by it... while being able to do very little to the thief in return. Thats a general thief problem of mobility creep, not an "SPB is kept in check" argument.. we are not all thiefs, and there are plenty specs have more difficulty dealing with a thief +1 than SPB. That isnt so obvious, becuase most specs don't get played for things like that.. the dominance of warrior/thief on sides.. and the dominance of necro/gaurd on mid, in various itterations over time.

Just lol. You do know what a side node build does, right?

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Just lol. You do know what a side node build does, right?

He thinks you shouldn't be able to 2v1 sidenode because warrior doesnt have a lot of buttons to mis-cast, its above spellbreakers pay grade. 

I think that's a different subset of balancing issue.

Edited August 30 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

2 hours ago, Aaron.1294 said:

@Flowki.7194What about Ranger, what about literally every meme bunker build before warrior or ranger - builds that everyone hate right when they appear. Even tho you may agree with me or not - warrior and Ranger are always the best sidenoder builds for balance as fragile as gw2 balance is because otherwise we get bunker standing still outhealers meme with no direction (and if it wasn't obvious already defence spellbreaker became healing spamming bs especially after Staff getting passive heal buffs and damage nerfs, heretics amulet being added to the game, and free alac relic...

What about them? Anything requiring a 2v1 to push off point is kitten, especially when that given spec is brainded to play, signet cata level brainded. The current menifestation of SPB is the accumulation of power creep (with ranger mace not far behind).. and an ethos that low effort should also = high reward. So here it is, a brainded spec in meta, one of the lowest effort duelists possible, dominating duels/roam/group fight. Sorry my friend but you are completely delusional to say warrior is a healthy duelist.. none of its specs were hard to play, and they oppressed duelist specs that were harder/punishing to play. Everybody just had to accept this reality becuase poor warrior doesnt have a viable spec outside of a brainded duelist.. while warrior mains went full steam ahead on the cope train trying to convince themselves and everybody else that warrior was hard enough to justify its title as best duelist. Fking delusional playerbsse, its comical, yet tiring at the same time. So much cope/gaslighting.

 

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 what Bro wanted to say was..... a strength spellbreaker is forced to move out off the point when plused by any hard dmging class simply cause of 2 things. 

1. Most classes blind spamy as kitten so he has no Chance to counterplay anyhow in that Moment. (Aside If he uses revenge counter)

2. It does not Auto proc weakness as If you would do when played on Defence line. This means your ways faster dead when doing mistakes than u would be with Defence line

 

These are also the reason why strength spellbreaker is not meta but defence one is

 

And my point still stands, it has become normal that a warrior must be +1d in order to push it off a point.. just becuase poor warrior didn't have any other role in sPVP. So I am suppose to be all chill now because a warrior not using defense line is "easier" to +1 and force off a point, but lets ignore its 1v1 free advantedge forcing the +1. By this playerbase overlooking SPBs low effort, and by continually justifying its kitten domination over 1v1s with lower effort than most other duelists.. now we have a monsterous low effort SPB build dominating multiple roles. And still, you are finding ways to deflect attention away from warriors history of being a fking brainded deulist dominating sides.

[Flowki.7194]

28 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

He thinks you shouldn't be able to 2v1 sidenode because warrior doesnt have a lot of buttons to mis-cast, its above spellbreakers pay grade. 

I think that's a different subset of balancing issue.

No build (aside from full support) should be able to hold out 2v1, it is a clear sign of creep in some way. It is worse when brainded specs can do it, becuase any player can jump on it and become game breaking, own 1/3 of the game at a skill level they have no business holding 1/3 of the game with. These brainded duelist specs are no different to the brainded signet cata.

 

If it is to be that a duelist spec MUST be able to hold 1v2, then it MUST be one of the hardest specs in the game to play, in order to justify the most impactful role that can possibly be played.. to litterally control 1/3 of the game SOLO. If you have to ask why that is important for the health of the game, and for spec representation.. well, don't bother, I'm not answering it, critical thinking has been damaged beyound repair to ask such a question.

Edited August 30 by Flowki.7194

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

13 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

No build (aside from full support) should be able to 2v1, it is a clear sign of creep in some way. It is worse when brainded specs can do it, becuase any player can jump on it and become game breaking, own 1/3 of the game at a skill level they have no business holding 1/3 of the game with. These brainded duelist specs are no different to the brainded signet cata.

 

If it is to be that a duelist spec MUST be able to hold 1v2, then it MUST be one of the hardest specs in the game to play, in order to justify the most impactful role that can possibly be played.. to litterally control 1/3 of the game SOLO. If you have to ask why that is important for the health of the game, and for spec representation.. well, don't bother, I'm not answering it, critical thinking has been damaged beyound repair to ask such a question.

🤷‍♀️ I'll defend your right to think that way, as long as the warrior players have something viable that doesn't rely on their opponent being asleep to work when all the balance adjustments are done. 

Philosophy of design is in Anet's hands, but it stands to reason that if you allow people to create, gear, and spend money on a class, the class should be able to participate in all the content if properly built. 

Edited August 30 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Flowki.7194]

11 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

🤷‍♀️ I'll defend your right to think that way, as long as the warrior players have something viable that doesn't rely on their opponent being asleep to work when all the balance adjustments are done. 

If a warrior goes up against a high skill floor/high punishing duelist spec that is more effective if played flawlessly, the warrior still has the advantedge of making less mistakes. In this current MMR, that is a big deal, and I know you will understand why. At top level, yes, the warrior, just like WBs, should hit a ceiling of limitation. To remove that ceiling limitation, means raising the skill floor of SPB/WB f3 mechanics (etc), to litterally raise the skill ceiling on a mechanical level. Now the SPB has more risk to duel + more reward, and the WB has more risk laying down burst + more reward. All they have did with warrior (and WB at mid level), is increase numbers/bloat.. so that it smashed through the skill ceiling cap, this was the same with Czerker, and with BS, with no additional effort. Its bs, becuase it is casual creep. I am a casual player too, but I certainly, under no circumstance, expect my little core rev build to be performing at meta level reward, or holding/kiting 1v2s for fun. Reaper shouldn't even be meta either.. think of all the group fight specs just not viable becuase reaper does it easier, and better. Low/moderate effort for high reward is a shockingly bad way of balancing PVP.. it is a PVE ethos.. and even gets boring there if too much, people get bored with no challenge.

Edited August 30 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

37 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Philosophy of design is in Anet's hands, but it stands to reason that if you allow people to create, gear, and spend money on a class, the class should be able to participate in all the content if properly built. 

Sorry didn't see this part from edit.

 

Yes ofc every spec should be able to compete. But look at it this way, person A can only run at 5mph, person B can run at 10mph. Person B put in more effort to train and learn to run that fast. Then, becuause person B was winning all races, the race organisers decided to give person A a half lap head start, person A now wins most races for no extra training. That is litterally GW2 spec balance ethos. Player Bs now stop training.. whats the point? Only player As left racing <do check spec representations over the next 20 games, and note the difficulty of the specs>

 

This is where a decent MMR was suppose to come in. If a spec is limited in skill ceiling, then it will hover at a lower elo that is more appropriate for the spec limitations. That means if you mastered a low skill floor spec (lets say condi mech) you can still beat all other specs at the lower elo, becuase they will be players who have not mastered the harder specs, so are more prone to mistakes. What we have right now, is easier specs dominating many harder specs, at all skill levels (multiple easier specs are objectively better specs in performance even if the harder specs are played flawless). It is litterally becoming a handi cap, an objective nerf to yourself, to play a higher skill floor/punishing spec. In the games I played in p1 this season it didn't change it, SPB-virt-reaper-WB dominated representation. We know kitten well these are safer specs, less prone to punishments vs <p1 players, and it seems SPB is currently unpunishable vs anything.

Edited August 30 by Flowki.7194

[Shagie.7612]

nother day, nother not so subtle defense of pre-nerf catalyst lol

[Flowki.7194]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

nother day, nother not so subtle defense of pre-nerf catalyst lol

Still smashing 2 buttons on renegade and thinking its meta worthy gameplay?

Edited August 30 by Flowki.7194

[Shagie.7612]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Still smashing 2 buttons on renegade and thinking its meta worthy gameplay?

still playing 600 games a season with a sub-50% win rate?

maybe if they'd unnerf signet cata you'd get there

[Flowki.7194]

4 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

still playing 600 games a season with a sub-50% win rate?

maybe if they'd unnerf signet cata you'd get there

This again. I played core rev, sat in g3 most seasons, and got carried into plat a few times, works for me, both my skill and spec do not deserve any more. I played off meta power cata, and didn't play signet cata. Now, back on point, smashing 2 buttons on renegade and thinking it deserves the same reward as playing vindi. So bitter, so delusional, so entitled.

[Shagie.7612]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Now, back on point, smashing 2 buttons on renegade and thinking it deserves the same reward as playing vindi. So bitter, so delusional, so entitled.

oh hold on i can do it too

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

This again.

here we go with the constant assertion that number of buttons is the only thing that matters when it comes to balance

3 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

So bitter, so delusional, so entitled.

you should go play zangief or pot or something, you might learn something for once

[Flowki.7194]

Just now, Shagie.7612 said:

oh hold on i can do it too

here we go with the constant assertion that number of buttons is the only thing that matters when it comes to balance

you should go play zangief or pot or something, you might learn something for once

So you think condi mech would be a fine addition to meta? You'd be the first one on the forums complaining your 2 renegade buttons can't kill it.

[Shagie.7612]

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

So you think condi mech would be a fine addition to meta?

I think Mech should be reworked to be a properly engaging pet spec, in that the player is the one largely pressing the attacks, they're just delivered with the pet as the focus, not one where the robot is mostly playing itself, instead of the current design where the player and mech each do their own individual thing.
Yeah, I absolutely think it should be playable, but the changes it needs to not be a bad spec have nothing to do with some definitive number of buttons, it's a design issue.

You get it explained to you all the time why just looking at the number of buttons in a column of some random spreadsheet as your main balance factor is a silly approach and yet you never learn, which both explains a lot and is expected of someone who washed out of being an ele player, quite frankly.

[Hotride.2187]

14 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

He thinks you shouldn't be able to 2v1 sidenode because warrior doesnt have a lot of buttons to mis-cast, its above spellbreakers pay grade. 

I think that's a different subset of balancing issue.

I just explained that you are not doing 2v1. Reply: but you didnt instantly die when the +1 appeared.

I've said my piece, this person generates endless noise and not much else. Anyhow.

[Flowki.7194]

12 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I think Mech should be reworked to be a properly engaging pet spec, in that the player is the one largely pressing the attacks, they're just delivered with the pet as the focus, not one where the robot is mostly playing itself, instead of the current design where the player and mech each do their own individual thing.
Yeah, I absolutely think it should be playable, but the changes it needs to not be a bad spec have nothing to do with some definitive number of buttons, it's a design issue.

You get it explained to you all the time why just looking at the number of buttons in a column of some random spreadsheet as your main balance factor is a silly approach and yet you never learn, which both explains a lot and is expected of someone who washed out of being an ele player, quite frankly.

I think you are smart enough to realise that by answering no to my question, puts you at a complete contridiction to "all specs should be able to compete equally regardless of mechanical difficulty", yet you clearly understand that condi mech, at its current difficulty, would not be a healthy meta spec. You are trying to move the goal post and answer in such a way as to avoid saying no directly.. but no is what you have just said, indirectly. Have you become so bias that you will have one rule for condi mech, and another rule for all other easier specs?

 

I will ask you directly again. Does condi mech in its current mechanical state deserve to be a meta spec? As in, Anet could just buff its dps/sustain numbers on engi/mech.. so that it is a lot more effective for the same low mechanical difficulty. Yes or no?

Edited August 31 by Flowki.7194

[Flowki.7194]

4 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

I just explained that you are not doing 2v1. Reply: but you didnt instantly die when the +1 appeared.

I've said my piece, this person generates endless noise and not much else. Anyhow.

Every usable warrior build over the last two year basically forced most specs to +1 it in order to push the spec off point. My point is that this reality is not acceptable, and even less acceptable given those builds were brainded to play. Czerker, BS, SPB. None of those specs were hard enough to justify owning 1/3 of the game, and being dominant vs most other duelists.

 

SPB and BS were/are also in states where they could win a lot of 1v2s vs specs harder/risker to play. Side noding being warriors only real role does not justify that type of power in any way at all, nor its dominance as a duelist.. it is not the only duelist. This is the same as necro always having some buss spec it can park on mid, and in cunjunction with a support, be nion unkillable. It was not justifiable becuase "necro didn't have a roam/duelist spec". Same with druid face tanking on sides being justified "becuase druid doesn't have a support role". Thieves at g3+ skill level have also plagued people with low risk/low punishing playstyle (DE being the pinicle) at a certain skill level.. which is bs, but again justified "becuase thief has no staying power". You see the trend going on here? Weakness in one area, vastly over compensated for in another, to game breaking levels.. and then all the cope in justifying it. But this is just noise, lol.

Edited August 31 by Flowki.7194

[Vyseman.2947]

Always ignore Spellbreakers who holds your Close spot.. just go for Mid and Far, ezpz.   spellbreaker these days are on full bunker to able to 1v3 1v4 on close without dying but have super low damage output even with the broken spear lol

[arazoth.7290]

3 minutes ago, Vyseman.2947 said:

Always ignore Spellbreakers who holds your Close spot.. just go for Mid and Far, ezpz.   spellbreaker these days are on full bunker to able to 1v3 1v4 on close without dying but have super low damage output even with the broken spear lol

But what about 5 spellbreakers ?!?!!!

I wonder if it would work too. They off support each other with heretic amulet and staff while offense spear has good aoe damage and ranged to keep the node free and people at ranged at bay while being tanky. You also can't go close or far because you need atleast 2-3people if these other 2 go full bunker mode holding it, decapping won't work either for things like thief ect... .

I wil be surprised if they aren't going to try it soon, they did it with cata, imo the build potential is here enough for it to work too

[Vyseman.2947]

16 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

But what about 5 spellbreakers ?!?!!!

cmon, be realistic man.  Average Match is one Spellbreaker per Team.. super rare to have 2. 

And for Support core warrior is the Way to go, because much much much more Heal

[Hotride.2187]

24 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

But what about 5 spellbreakers ?!?!!!

Same question as when catalyst was broken, but for war. Where will you find 5 war players per team?

[arazoth.7290]

23 minutes ago, Vyseman.2947 said:

cmon, be realistic man.  Average Match is one Spellbreaker per Team.. super rare to have 2. 

And for Support core warrior is the Way to go, because much much much more Heal

Only a matter of time 🙂 Trust me

[Vyseman.2947]

1 hour ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Only a matter of time 🙂 Trust me

IF you 5stack in unranked then maybe.. but in ranked it will never happen at all.   Max 2  Warriors at all per Team and if you get 5 in an Unranked match, they lack of damage so they wont be able to kill anything