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Renegade Reform Recommendations (long post)


Exalted Quality.8534

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Sup Rev Fam,

We've been through a lot of in the last year plus. Nerf after nerf, after nerf...feelsbadman. I, like most, was disappointed to learn that we would have to wait longer for the slim chance that Revs would see the light of day. I spent some time over the holidays thinking out suggestions on improving the Renegade spec without breaking the game. I think Revs major problems lie in their total lack of flexibility, extreme susceptibility to conditions, and the energy system which feels more like punishment than anything else. Personally, I don't enjoy playing busted classes (currently Mirage, FB, Scourge IMO), so I hope most will find my suggestions to be both beneficial and reasonable. My main idea on the suggestions is to open up the opportunities for different styles of play. As always, let me know what you think. If enough people are interested, I'd be happy to share my ideas on tuning up Herald and the core Rev specs as well.

  • Remove energy costs from ALL revenant weapon skills >> there have been many compelling arguments for this using comparisons to the initiative system for thieves...using the profession-specific mechanics should be challenging AND rewarding at the same time, not just a hinderance.

  • Make spirits non-cc'able, but keep them killable while adding beneficiary effects for them dying or ending >> counter play is to kill them at range greater than 360 to not receive any of their adverse effects.

  • Give spirits increased vitality and toughness based on vitality, toughness, and level of the caster.

  • Kalla's Fervor - Add 4% condition damage Reduction per stack >> Revs are far too weak vs. conditions in sPvP and WvW. A maximum potential of 20% condition damage reduction would provide much needed survivability for Renegades.

  • Sudden Reversal - Change to "Unleash a roar at nearby enemies when you evade an attack, knocking them down." Change ICD to 10s. >> The original skill is ludicrous because it has a huge 20s ICD AND Revs have very little access to stun break.

  • Ashen Demeanor - Burning or Disabling a foe Chills (1s) your enemy, which leaves them Vulnerable an inspires you with Kalla's Fervor. >> Only having disabling effects as a trigger for this trait is far too restrictive which cuts down on your potential KF procs. Replacing Crippled with Chill provides a bit of synergy with Abyssal Chill in Corruption and makes this a potentially interesting alternative to Blood Fury. (If both Ashen Demeanor and Icerazor's Ire suggestions are taken, there should be a 3s ICD added to Abyssal Chill so that things don't get out of hand.)

  • Wrought-Iron Will - Replace Retaliation with Resistance. >> Revs can already attain Retaliation from dodge rolling with the Retribution trait, Unwavering Avoidance. Replacing Retaliation with Resistance makes this trait much more desirable in sPvP and WvW scenarios as well as adds some survivability against conditions.

  • All for One - Change to include all Renegade skills (include F-skills) and a small heal to nearby allies when using a Renegade skill. Add a 3s ICD.

  • Righteous Rebel (consider changing name to Resilient or Resourceful Rebel) - change to "Orders from Above lasts longer and affects a larger area. When affected by Alacrity, all skills cost 5 less energy (minimum 5 energy). >> This would give Revs a slight, yet meaningful benefit to maintaining Alacrity and help manage energy.

  • Breakrazor's Bastion - If suggestion on Kalla's Fervor is taken, reduce condition damage reduction to 30%, reduce cast time to 1/2s and reduce energy cost to 5. Cure 3 conditions from nearby allies when the spirit is destroyed or leaves the battlefield.

  • Razorclaw's Rage - Add a small amount of initial AoE damage on cast and a 3s stack of bleeding, reduce cast time to 1/2s and reduce energy cost to 20. Add a small amount of AoE damage and a 3s stack of Bleeding when the spirit is destroyed or leaves the battlefield. >> Currently, this skill is very weak for the caster, but quite strong in groups. The proposed change makes this a little more rewarding for solo play.

  • Darkrazor's Daring - Change Stability to 2 stacks for 5s, reduce cast time to 1/4s and reduce energy cost to 25. AoE Stun Break allies when the spirit is destroyed or leaves the battlefield. Add a Dark combo field for some bonus skill name synergy.

  • Icerazor's Ire - Replace Cripple with Chill 1s on initial cast, reduce cast time to 1/2s and reduce energy cost to 20. Chill nearby foes for 1s when this spirit is destroyed or leaves the battlefield. Add a water field for some bonus skill name synergy.

  • Stonecleave's Summit - Add small AoE life steal for in area affecting up to 5 allies/foes on cast. Reduce cast time to 1/2s and reduce initial cost/upkeep to 5/-7 energy. Add small AoE life steal for allies in area affecting up to 5 allies/foes when the spirit is destroyed or leaves the battlefield.

  • Shortbow - Increase damage coefficients across the board

  • Bloodbane Path - Reduce cast time to 3/4s. If weapon skills are changed to cost no energy, increase cooldown to 5s

  • Sevenshot - Increase cast time to 1s, change skill to teleport to ground targeted area within 900 range. Change skill to apply 7 stacks of Torment for 7s and 7s of Swiftness to enemies and allies within 180 range.

  • Spiritcrush - Reduce cast time to 1/2s. If weapon skills are changed to cost no energy, increase cooldown to 12s

  • Scorchrazor - If weapon skills are changed to cost no energy, increase cooldown to 15s

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The spirits/charr summons really need a complete reworking for each game mode. They keep trying to add in npc's and item things like the tablet but the only way that has worked is with mesmer clones because of how hard they are to distinguish between npc and a player. First thing they need to do is realize this is just too much micromanagement for competitive play.

As for changes most of these look fine but for condition removal what I would recommend is taking that first line of invocation where you have the condition removal and the upkeep damage buff and just make it into one trait. Have it where you lose x amount of conditions depending on how much upkeep you are using per whatever interval or whatever.

Only other thing would be in competitive game modes or maybe in all game modes if they did a play on ele(attunements) and engie(kits) instead of an npc that you channel that specific charr until you run out of energy then you are back to kalla again and then if you are on kalla make it where they certain things occur when those other charr are not on cd kind of like how signets work.

Lastly though one of big problems with rev like for condi's is that if you want to be core rev or herald you will still not have access to a condi range weapon. Not sure if this will ever be addressed though by anet since it further forces you into a place other classes are not forced into.

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@Klypto.1703 said:but the only way that has worked is with mesmer clones because of how hard they are to distinguish between npc and a player

Uh huh. Never met or played as a Mesmer I imagine? No one gets fooled by clones. That's not their point in any case, they exist to project damage, either through shatters or through ambush skills.

But anyhow, going off topic. I agree that the summons need a rework, though I do love their general idea. Much like Mesmer phantasms they mostly need a change that you need to specifically target them to kill them, IMO. Don't let random AE stuff slaughter them, but make them easy to remove if someone invests into that.

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@Carighan.6758 said:

@Klypto.1703 said:but the only way that has worked is with mesmer clones because of how hard they are to distinguish between npc and a player

Uh huh. Never met or played as a Mesmer I imagine?
No one
gets fooled by clones. That's not their point in any case, they exist to project damage, either through shatters or through ambush skills.

But anyhow, going off topic. I agree that the summons need a rework, though I
do
love their general idea. Much like Mesmer phantasms they mostly need a change that you need to specifically target them to kill them, IMO. Don't let random AE stuff slaughter them, but make them easy to remove if someone invests into that.

Yeah I was about fall asleep when I typed it but yeah your wording is what I was the direction I was thinking of or trying to anyways.

Mainly all I'm asking them to do is change it up where you don't feel completely useless not using a spellbreaker or scourge because that the way it is right now.

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