D/D and D/P balancing

[babazhook.6805]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I still dont underatand the reasoning for the double steal trait in acro, is it something anet wanted to do to rival PI trait or something? Seems a bit overwhelming at times.

Back on topic d/d has power AA power #2 Condi #3 hybrid #4 and power #5 all a part from 1 skill is meleed and looks like a mess of random stuff thrown together.

I think the double steal in ACRO a reasonable design balance implementation for the reasons outlined (s/x does better in Acro and d/p in Daredevil) , otherwise the system tends towards taking the same traitlines no matter the weaponset.

What interests me is exactly what the changes to confusion that were suggested entail. One thing I found with d/d condition is that in going Acro GI was a usable skill when there some amount of healing in the build as it was able to keep confusion stacks off. The major problem was it really did not work well with power and did not work well if one's start point in a fight saw the enemy get those first attacks in (which generally easier to do against d/d) wherein ones health started at or below the threshold for a cleanse and an attack would trigger yet more confusion damage.

If GI became a usable trait in d/d power Acro could be used to make the user very immune to conditions which is better then half the battle when trying to survive against existing builds. This in turn could free up slots in the utilities wherein Infiltrators signet in conjunction with shadowstep could be used to help with gap closing. One reason I find s/d works as well as it does is the added condition cleanses via #2 used in conjunction with those found in acro (don't stop/PR)

[Ario.8964]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:I still dont underatand the reasoning for the double steal trait in acro, is it something anet wanted to do to rival PI trait or something? Seems a bit overwhelming at times.

Back on topic d/d has power AA power #2 Condi #3 hybrid #4 and power #5 all a part from 1 skill is meleed and looks like a mess of random stuff thrown together.

I'm no expert and I don't often understand anet's decisions but I think this was to buff the utility of the set and the sustain of the set enough to allow it to play the sustained combat game the set has always been used for. Especially once D/P had daredevil boosting it's survivability (Around HoT release times before S/D was really usable again) S/D couldn't outsustain D/P without sacrificing so much damage it wasn't worth having. SE was supposed to give them that utility and sustain through double steal which worked but it became too oppressive when combined with fully unblockable 3 and the extra damage buffs they made to the set. (I've crit up to 9k on boonless foes in pvp which is not okay given that backstab takes more setup and only crits for like 7k in ideal situations)

As for D/D at this point idk what to do with the set. The role anet wants the set to have needs to be defined so we can balance accordingly because right now it has no defined role it's just a fusterclock of skills thrown into a sub par set.

[TwiceDead.1963]

D/D is definitely messed right now. #1 and #2 are completely power oriented, #3 and #4 is condi-oriented and #5 is a power set-up skill for greater damage at a tremendous cost. If you are mainly power-oriented, which is D/D's supposed strength (though the DB spamming condi-cucks beg to differ), you will never use Dancing Dagger or Death Blossom. CnD is too much risk for too little pay-off, so that leaves you with AA's and Heartseeker for a power build.

Daggers off-hand abilities make a lot more sense when you main-hand it with a Pistol, and vice-versa, but daggers only? You can make some plays if you're really good, but you will always be able to do better if you did something else because there is nothing D/D excels at... Unless you're planning to land both CnD and Backstab in quick succession, which will often fail against anything slightly more attentive than gank-fodder.

I have no solutions to this, just voicing my frustrations about the set. It can be fun to run, but you'll more often than not be reminded of the tools you chose to give away.

[Ghost.5637]

@TwiceDead.1963 said:D/D is definitely messed right now. #1 and #2 are completely power oriented, #3 and #4 is condi-oriented and #5 is a power set-up skill for greater damage at a tremendous cost. If you are mainly power-oriented, which is D/D's supposed strength (though the DB spamming condi-cucks beg to differ), you will never use Dancing Dagger or Death Blossom. CnD is too much risk for too little pay-off, so that leaves you with AA's and Heartseeker for a power build.

To be fair I actually use dancing dagger quite a bit. It's good range pressure and if you take deadly arts + crit strikes you can get some good numbers(3k bouncing daggers with 25 bloodlust can be really nice).

No new information here, but I do agree the biggest issues is death blossom in general and risk/reward factor of CnD. It is very difficult to land, and especially mind numbing against heavy block/evade builds. If D/d shouldn't get a shadowstep, then death blossom needs to have the animation ironed out, and be reworked to count as a half-decent gap closer.The stealth part of CnD needs to be unblockable(not damage), and should activate so long as a target is hit(not evaded). I'd say backstab should ignore some portion of armor as well, to justify using face to face against meatheads, but only when an offhand dagger is equipped. Maybe as part of a trait line in deadly arts .

[babazhook.6805]

I personally do not see ANY issues with the way D/D designed as a Hybrid type weapon with both a condition and power component. Most weapons across the board for all classes tend to have an element of both.

The issue with D/D is not that DB exists alongside Heartseeker anymore than SB has issues because choking gas is parked next to Clusterbomb.

It that the set lacks engage and disengage potential and coupled with all of the AOE and passives that exist along with no blind/stuns in the set , makes surviving on it long enough to output enough damage a task most do not want to engage in.

[DeceiverX.8361]

Pretty much what I've been saying. The condition fluff is kind of whatever and generally doesn't matter that much. I'd like to see the condi variant have more than just one button to press than dealing its damage with relative safety, but the problems on the power-end of things are strictly due to the kit's design, which is mostly relegated to DB just not being what the kit needs, especially now more than ever due to the design powercreep of PoF.