Lord killing, jallis, shiro.

[Zyllias.9538]

Jallis > shirowhat do you think? I beat the lord and his soldiers easy with jallis while with shiro its more harder.The only sustain defense in shiro is the heal that does siphon damages on hits, but i think shiro should have more defense.

[Manpag.6421]

Jalis beats Shiro in both offence and defence at the moment, thanks to the hammers, so it's not all that surprising. Shiro SHOULD be the most power but rely on mobility to pull it off, but without an (unlikely) substantial buff Jalis will usually be the better choice.

[Zyllias.9538]

@Manpag.6421 said:Jalis beats Shiro in both offence and defence at the moment, thanks to the hammers, so it's not all that surprising. Shiro SHOULD be the most power but rely on mobility to pull it off, but without an (unlikely) substantial buff Jalis will usually be the better choice.

very true.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Jalis should be more tanky. With AoE taunt, PbAoE stab, blocks and the hammer should heal him and allies ehen they do dmg, but decrease the dmg.So you can utilize him as a face tank.Shiro just needs to get a huge buff on the life steal so every dagger does a fixed amount of health that scales better with power, so you can actually heal for about 50% of health when you attack.Killing something while Impossible odds are active should give energy back.

[Zyllias.9538]

Shiro need stability and more Healing and damages, it should be a choice to play his spec, not because one is more op.

[Jack Skywalker.5674]

Jallis's main weakness is the fact that it's elite is an aoe stun breaker with a large cast time, while Shiro's main weakness is the lack of burst healing and access to stability.Personaly I think we are reaching a point where Jallis can replace Shiro in both Power Herald.

[Manpag.6421]

@"InsaneQR.7412" said:Shiro just needs to get a huge buff on the life steal so every dagger does a fixed amount of health that scales better with power, so you can actually heal for about 50% of health when you attack.Killing something while Impossible odds are active should give energy back.

If they wanted to do a rework, it would be better to go back to Shiro's actual skills from GW1 rather than just naming completely different ones after them as an homage to him. He's probably my favourite character from GW1, and while I do love that you can channel him as a rev his skills are a bit of a letdown.

Let's take a look:

For starters, I don't feel Jade Winds should be the elite; if we were being faithful to the character we should just have the trait version that triggers when downed. It's nice to have a stun, but it the words of Mean Girls "Oh my god, that was ONE TIME!" – literally turning a one-time act as he died into something he can actively use whenever. Instead, Impossible Odds should be the elite and act similarly to how it worked when Shiro used it. Shiro, like Soulbeast, should be very stance-based, and One Wolf Pack is pretty much exactly what Impossible Odds was, except 2 seconds shorter and no condition transfer.

I get that they wanted to make the heal skill active and aggressive, but Meditation of the Reaper in some form would be canon AND aggressive. Again, it would have to be tuned to a balanced level, but something similar to Crystal Hibernation that roots you when channelling would be very similar. In GW1 the skill incentivised ending it early because if you didn't, your team got wiped by the lifesteal, but I think a version of Crystal Hibernation that stole X amount of health in a radius at the end would be in the same vein and give the rev some respite; back off or heal them even more.

Riposting Shadows was made LESS aggressive, by turning it into an evade instead of essentially an extended, stance-based version of Unrelenting Assault - and I don't see why they couldn't be fused, meaning you're not locked into Sword for that 1.5 second aggressive evade. Similarly, RS renewed if the attack hit; some kind of additional effect (not auto-renewing, obviously, that would be insane) for landing all 5 hits would again make the skill a spiritual successor. Perhaps you could take the condition transfer effect from Impossible Odds and make it transfer, say, 1 or 2 conditions.

I'll stop there because there are already a ton of rework suggestion threads out there, and I'm not going to hijack this one, but hopefully you see the point. If Shiro's fighting style had been ported a little bit more accurately, he might have more of a niche in GW2 as a Revenant stance.

[InsaneQR.7412]

@Manpag.6421 said:I'll stop there because there are already a ton of rework suggestion threads out there, and I'm not going to hijack this one, but hopefully you see the point. If Shiro's fighting style had been ported a little bit more accurately, he might have more of a niche in GW2 as a Revenant stance.

I can definetly understand your point.But:First: I havent played GW1, i once got it and i lost pw and mail adress and couldnt retrieve it.So i cant feel the same problems as you do with the experience of the real shiro. I can only see him as a legend as he is now.Second: I am not crying for a rework. We got what we got. I only proposing buffs and improvements. Jalis is better at dmg because of the AoE but he lacks tankiness just because his abbilities are kinda lackluster.If his hammer dmg would be reduced but his sustain would be increased just by improving skills it would make him way more enjoyable to play. Especially if all skills if him would target the area arriund him.making him basically a miving fortress.Shiro has similar problems. He looses fast energy and has no sustain, because his heal is so bad. Improving the life steal dmg and giving him the abbility to gain energy he could do more dmg overall with more nuanced playstyle than just AA and his heal could be utilized fir burst.Shiro is not a group playing legend which is the sad truth atm but rev has a lot of group legends so i can understand his niche point of being the PvP/Mobility legend.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

@Manpag.6421 said:Jalis beats Shiro in both offence and defence at the moment, thanks to the hammers, so it's not all that surprising. Shiro SHOULD be the most power but rely on mobility to pull it off, but without an (unlikely) substantial buff Jalis will usually be the better choice.

I keep seeing revenants say this in threads and it is not true at all

For a solo open world situation or any pvp situation, Shiro is higher dps than Jalis. Impossible Odds gives quickness which is far superior to the extra damage from Jalis Hammers. There is a reason the meta build for Herald in pvp has always used Shiro and not Jalis; higher damage + mobility. True Jalis is a bit tankier, but you also lose access to extra evades and most of revenant's power playstyle is about not getting hit anyway.

Jalis is only superior dps when you have an outside source of quickness. Otherwise Shiro is the higher dps legend between the two

[Manpag.6421]

@LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

@Manpag.6421 said:Jalis beats Shiro in both offence and defence at the moment, thanks to the hammers, so it's not all that surprising. Shiro SHOULD be the most power but rely on mobility to pull it off, but without an (unlikely) substantial buff Jalis will usually be the better choice.

I keep seeing revenants say this in threads and

it is not true at all

For a solo open world situation or any pvp situation, Shiro is higher dps than Jalis. Impossible Odds gives quickness which is far superior to the extra damage from Jalis Hammers. There is a reason the meta build for Herald in pvp has always used Shiro and not Jalis; higher damage + mobility. True Jalis is a bit tankier, but you also lose access to extra evades and most of revenant's power playstyle is about not getting hit anyway.

Jalis is only superior dps when you have an outside source of quickness. Otherwise Shiro is the higher dps legend between the two

I apologise for the misconception; it has been my own general experience, though not something I have ever tested numerically in any way. I use Jalis a LOT, but I'm mostly a PvEer and so saying that mobs seem to die much quicker to Jalis than Shiro isn't saying much.

I think in my eyes it's because you can sustain the hammers a lot longer than Impossible Odds, as well as the fact that I always ALWAYS use the Assassin's Annihilation trait so that the hammers are constantly adding extra lifesteal damage, which Shiro just can't trigger as consistently as Jalis (and that's not even going into how consistently Renegade can keep might up with the hammers and the Vindication trait...).

I can believe that Shiro might do higher burst damage, but to go back to the thread topic of Lord killing, the issue is that it's just not enough to do his job in most cases, while Jalis can keep a fairly constant level of damage up through an extended fight. The fact that there's even a misconception about it means the difference is more marginal than it should be; Legendary Assassin should be up there with Thief in terms of damage if is to be a clearly-defined role. If the damage isn't buffed to that level, the evades need to be much cheaper and/or Enduring Recovery needs buffing and moving to the Devastation line to facilitate a more mobile play style.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Look at the patch botes impossible odds is now more representitive to its GW1 version^^

[Manpag.6421]

^ Literally saw that in the patch and thought how funny it was that I'd just been suggesting that!