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[Elite Suggestion] Rebirth

Regon Phoenix.8215

By Regon Phoenix.8215
in Necromancer

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derd.6413

derd.6413

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as
resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.
Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.
-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

1) And you don't answer at all, which is far worse. Also, addressing things you can argue is literally debate rule number 1. What is the point about trying to argue about things you can't argue about?2) Point being that phoenix is not elementalist exclusive3) Are you an expert on all lore in gw2? How do you know there are no way this can be cannon in one way or another?4) Just like like necromancer+sand is even more poor justification for scourge. Your point being?5) Well golly me, just imagine requiring special training or circumstances to unlock magic which was considered lost6) And why not? Why can some dedicated people who abandons everything to gain new powers exclusive to them regain lost magic? Regions unlocked by hot and pof were also lost before expansion.

1) at least acknowledge them

2) just because barrier isn't an exclusive mechanic doesn't mean that phoenix isn't a ele exclusive theme

3) alright then, on what gw lore is this based because i sure as heck couldn't find anything outside the previously given

4)what kind of sentence was that? but more importantly if you think scourge is nothing more then sand necro that'd only proves to me you don't know what you're on about

5) that'd still doesn't prove that previous point that elite specs were 'lost' instead of (let's say) developed

6.1) those would be called extremist archaeologists.

6.2)those regions weren't lost they were inaccessible.

6)but the main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

also if a necro wanted to achieve immortality, wouldn't they try to become a lich like joko instead.

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill.

While I don't want to defend him, this is kinda wrong Derd, the phoenix could be found in cantha in the mission closer to the stars and as a pet at the end of the mission where you had to defeat shiro, it wasn't associated to rebirth or anything but, in gw's lore nobody can deny it's existence.

I'll even go to the length of disappointing both of you and say that The phoenix in gw was... a mesmer...https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Hai_Jii

However, the necromancer was blessed with it's own sacred beast:https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Kuonghsang

A turtle labelled as the eternal paradox.

Here is what phoenixes are in GW:https://wiki.guildwars.com/images/thumb/4/4b/Phoenix_%28pet%29.jpg/150px-Phoenix_%28pet%29.jpg

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derd.6413

derd.6413

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:

compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill.

While I don't want to defend him, this is kinda wrong Derd, the phoenix could be found in cantha in the mission
closer to the stars
and as a pet at the end of the mission where you had to defeat shiro, it wasn't associated to rebirth or anything but, in gw's lore nobody can deny it's existence.

I'll even go to the length of disappointing both of you and say that The phoenix in gw was... a mesmer...

However, the necromancer was blessed with it's own sacred beast:

A turtle labelled as
the eternal paradox
.

Here is what phoenixes are in GW:

thanks for the correction. and i'm not disappointed i don't mind being proven wrong

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Regon Phoenix.8215

Regon Phoenix.8215

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@derd.6413 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as
resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.
Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.
-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

1) And you don't answer at all, which is far worse. Also, addressing things you can argue is literally debate rule number 1. What is the point about trying to argue about things you can't argue about?2) Point being that phoenix is not elementalist exclusive3) Are you an expert on all lore in gw2? How do you know there are no way this can be cannon in one way or another?4) Just like like necromancer+sand is even more poor justification for scourge. Your point being?5) Well golly me, just imagine requiring special training or circumstances to unlock magic which was considered lost6) And why not? Why can some dedicated people who abandons everything to gain new powers exclusive to them regain lost magic? Regions unlocked by hot and pof were also lost before expansion.

1) at least acknowledge them

2) just because barrier isn't an exclusive
mechanic
doesn't mean that phoenix isn't a ele exclusive
theme

3) alright then, on what gw lore is this based because i sure as heck couldn't find anything outside the previously given

4)what kind of sentence was that? but more importantly if you think scourge is nothing more then sand necro that'd only proves to me you don't know what you're on about

5) that'd still doesn't prove that previous point that elite specs were 'lost' instead of (let's say) developed

6.1) those would be called extremist archaeologists.

6.2)those regions weren't lost they were inaccessible.

6)but the main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

also if a necro wanted to achieve immortality, wouldn't they try to become a lich like joko instead.

1) You too2) But that doesn't mean the opposite of that. Until a class is made on specific team that theme remain open for all classes.3) Well, mostly phoenix weapon skins, celestial bosses from first gw game, and the fact that in one certain WvW map there is underground fiery temple beneath the desert. I am not expert on the lore, but neither are you, so unless you can provide any evidence showing that phoenix CAN'T be related to necromancer as specifically stated someone in the lore, you can't deny the posiblity.4) And just look who refuse to acknowledge/argue against points.5) And that doesn't disprove that elite spec can be rediscovered from some ancient stuff6) This elite wasn't lost, it was inaccessible.Also, if necro wanted to live in a desert, wouldn't they try to freeze it like reapers freeze stuff?

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Regon Phoenix.8215

Regon Phoenix.8215

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@"Dadnir.5038" said:

compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill.

While I don't want to defend him, this is kinda wrong Derd, the phoenix could be found in cantha in the mission
closer to the stars
and as a pet at the end of the mission where you had to defeat shiro, it wasn't associated to rebirth or anything but, in gw's lore nobody can deny it's existence.

I'll even go to the length of disappointing both of you and say that The phoenix in gw was... a mesmer...

However, the necromancer was blessed with it's own sacred beast:

A turtle labelled as
the eternal paradox
.

Here is what phoenixes are in GW:

Kitten me, it seems i forgot all about class ties with celestial bosses.Mesmer..... as if mesmer doesn't already have lots of cool stuff.... Well that's depressing....

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derd.6413

derd.6413

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as
resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.
Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.
-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

1) And you don't answer at all, which is far worse. Also, addressing things you can argue is literally debate rule number 1. What is the point about trying to argue about things you can't argue about?2) Point being that phoenix is not elementalist exclusive3) Are you an expert on all lore in gw2? How do you know there are no way this can be cannon in one way or another?4) Just like like necromancer+sand is even more poor justification for scourge. Your point being?5) Well golly me, just imagine requiring special training or circumstances to unlock magic which was considered lost6) And why not? Why can some dedicated people who abandons everything to gain new powers exclusive to them regain lost magic? Regions unlocked by hot and pof were also lost before expansion.

1) at least acknowledge them

2) just because barrier isn't an exclusive
mechanic
doesn't mean that phoenix isn't a ele exclusive
theme

3) alright then, on what gw lore is this based because i sure as heck couldn't find anything outside the previously given

4)what kind of sentence was that? but more importantly if you think scourge is nothing more then sand necro that'd only proves to me you don't know what you're on about

5) that'd still doesn't prove that previous point that elite specs were 'lost' instead of (let's say) developed

6.1) those would be called extremist archaeologists.

6.2)those regions weren't lost they were inaccessible.

6)but the main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

also if a necro wanted to achieve immortality, wouldn't they try to become a lich like joko instead.

1) You too2) But that doesn't mean the opposite of that. Until a class is made on specific team that theme remain open for all classes.3) Well, mostly phoenix weapon skins, celestial bosses from first gw game, and the fact that in one certain WvW map there is underground fiery temple beneath the desert. I am not expert on the lore, but neither are you, so unless you can provide any evidence showing that phoenix CAN'T be related to necromancer as specifically stated someone in the lore, you can't deny the posiblity.4) And just look who refuse to acknowledge/argue against points.5) And that doesn't disprove that elite spec can be rediscovered from some ancient stuff6) This elite wasn't lost, it was inaccessible.Also, if necro wanted to live in a desert, wouldn't they try to freeze it like reapers freeze stuff?

1) i always do

2)then let's have a water thief, an angel mesmer or a romance engineer. (that was sarcasm) unfortunatly for you some themes make more sense for curtain classes then others and trying to make them fit by recoloring them is just lazy.

3) nobody can prove a negative. (besides @Dadnir.5038 already addressed this)

4)your statement was unclear and seemingly just false

5)that's true but (see 6)

6)very funny but will you adress the fact that my main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

7)no? why would they use cold against their enemies when the environment is punishingly hot? that's like using water against dehydrated enemies

7.2) don't dodge my questions with snark

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Regon Phoenix.8215

Regon Phoenix.8215

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@derd.6413 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as
resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.
Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.
-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

1) And you don't answer at all, which is far worse. Also, addressing things you can argue is literally debate rule number 1. What is the point about trying to argue about things you can't argue about?2) Point being that phoenix is not elementalist exclusive3) Are you an expert on all lore in gw2? How do you know there are no way this can be cannon in one way or another?4) Just like like necromancer+sand is even more poor justification for scourge. Your point being?5) Well golly me, just imagine requiring special training or circumstances to unlock magic which was considered lost6) And why not? Why can some dedicated people who abandons everything to gain new powers exclusive to them regain lost magic? Regions unlocked by hot and pof were also lost before expansion.

1) at least acknowledge them

2) just because barrier isn't an exclusive
mechanic
doesn't mean that phoenix isn't a ele exclusive
theme

3) alright then, on what gw lore is this based because i sure as heck couldn't find anything outside the previously given

4)what kind of sentence was that? but more importantly if you think scourge is nothing more then sand necro that'd only proves to me you don't know what you're on about

5) that'd still doesn't prove that previous point that elite specs were 'lost' instead of (let's say) developed

6.1) those would be called extremist archaeologists.

6.2)those regions weren't lost they were inaccessible.

6)but the main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

also if a necro wanted to achieve immortality, wouldn't they try to become a lich like joko instead.

1) You too2) But that doesn't mean the opposite of that. Until a class is made on specific team that theme remain open for all classes.3) Well, mostly phoenix weapon skins, celestial bosses from first gw game, and the fact that in one certain WvW map there is underground fiery temple beneath the desert. I am not expert on the lore, but neither are you, so unless you can provide any evidence showing that phoenix CAN'T be related to necromancer as specifically stated someone in the lore, you can't deny the posiblity.4) And just look who refuse to acknowledge/argue against points.5) And that doesn't disprove that elite spec can be rediscovered from some ancient stuff6) This elite wasn't lost, it was inaccessible.Also, if necro wanted to live in a desert, wouldn't they try to freeze it like reapers freeze stuff?

1) i always do

2)then let's have a water thief, an angel mesmer or a romance engineer. (that was sarcasm) unfortunatly for you some themes make more sense for curtain classes then others and trying to make them fit by recoloring them is just lazy.

3) nobody can prove a negative. (besides @"Dadnir.5038" already addressed this)

4)your statement was unclear and seemingly just false

5)that's true but (see 6)

6)very funny but will you adress the fact that my main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

7)no? why would they use cold against their enemies when the environment is punishingly hot? that's like using water against dehydrated enemies

7.2) don't dodge my questions with snark

1) Doesn't seem so2) Your point being? Reaper also doesn't really fit necromancer (cloth, gs, melee), but Anet made it look like it fits. Who would stop them from doing the same with this elite?3) Then why can you try to argue that this elite does not fit by trying to disprove things from a point of view of negative assessment?4) So does yours, but for some reason you want me to acknowledge and address them5).....6) Why not? You are arguing a negative statement.7) Why use sand when enemies already geared up against sand? Again, you state that "nobody can prove a negative", yet you try to do this all the time. And you still refuse to address my comments. So, please, for the love of sky wizard, answer why should necromancer become a scourge in the desert and it could become a reaper and just freeze the desert?7.2) Right back at you.

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:Kitten me, it seems i forgot all about class ties with celestial bosses.

Don't be depressed, I thought it was the elementalist and the dragon proved my memories wrong...

Mesmer..... as if mesmer doesn't already have lots of cool stuff.... Well that's depressing....

I love mesmers, It's the first character I made and wasn't seen as great, just usefull and niche before HoT and the chronomancer. Still for me it's the profession which have always had the most pleasant gameplay.

Beside... Necromancers got the eternal paradox turtle. This eternal paradox make me laugh so much, it's litteraly the necromancer since launch. I'd almost want to rename the profession Kuongshang !

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Regon Phoenix.8215

Regon Phoenix.8215

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:Kitten me, it seems i forgot all about class ties with celestial bosses.

Don't be depressed, I thought it was the elementalist and the dragon proved my memories wrong...

Mesmer..... as if mesmer doesn't already have lots of cool stuff.... Well that's depressing....

I love mesmers, It's the first character I made and wasn't seen as great, just usefull and niche before HoT and the chronomancer. Still for me it's the profession which have always had the most pleasant gameplay.

Beside... Necromancers got the
eternal paradox
turtle. This
eternal paradox
make me laugh so much, it's litteraly the necromancer since launch. I'd almost want to rename the profession
Kuongshang
!

Yeah, but what elite can you made based on a turtle? Especially when necromancer is already slow and immobile like a turtle.....

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derd.6413

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as
resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.
Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.
-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

1) And you don't answer at all, which is far worse. Also, addressing things you can argue is literally debate rule number 1. What is the point about trying to argue about things you can't argue about?2) Point being that phoenix is not elementalist exclusive3) Are you an expert on all lore in gw2? How do you know there are no way this can be cannon in one way or another?4) Just like like necromancer+sand is even more poor justification for scourge. Your point being?5) Well golly me, just imagine requiring special training or circumstances to unlock magic which was considered lost6) And why not? Why can some dedicated people who abandons everything to gain new powers exclusive to them regain lost magic? Regions unlocked by hot and pof were also lost before expansion.

1) at least acknowledge them

2) just because barrier isn't an exclusive
mechanic
doesn't mean that phoenix isn't a ele exclusive
theme

3) alright then, on what gw lore is this based because i sure as heck couldn't find anything outside the previously given

4)what kind of sentence was that? but more importantly if you think scourge is nothing more then sand necro that'd only proves to me you don't know what you're on about

5) that'd still doesn't prove that previous point that elite specs were 'lost' instead of (let's say) developed

6.1) those would be called extremist archaeologists.

6.2)those regions weren't lost they were inaccessible.

6)but the main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

also if a necro wanted to achieve immortality, wouldn't they try to become a lich like joko instead.

1) You too2) But that doesn't mean the opposite of that. Until a class is made on specific team that theme remain open for all classes.3) Well, mostly phoenix weapon skins, celestial bosses from first gw game, and the fact that in one certain WvW map there is underground fiery temple beneath the desert. I am not expert on the lore, but neither are you, so unless you can provide any evidence showing that phoenix CAN'T be related to necromancer as specifically stated someone in the lore, you can't deny the posiblity.4) And just look who refuse to acknowledge/argue against points.5) And that doesn't disprove that elite spec can be rediscovered from some ancient stuff6) This elite wasn't lost, it was inaccessible.Also, if necro wanted to live in a desert, wouldn't they try to freeze it like reapers freeze stuff?

1) i always do

2)then let's have a water thief, an angel mesmer or a romance engineer. (that was sarcasm) unfortunatly for you some themes make more sense for curtain classes then others and trying to make them fit by recoloring them is just lazy.

3) nobody can prove a negative. (besides @"Dadnir.5038" already addressed this)

4)your statement was unclear and seemingly just false

5)that's true but (see 6)

6)very funny but will you adress the fact that my main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

7)no? why would they use cold against their enemies when the environment is punishingly hot? that's like using water against dehydrated enemies

7.2) don't dodge my questions with snark

1) Doesn't seem so2) Your point being? Reaper also doesn't really fit necromancer (cloth, gs, melee), but Anet made it look like it fits. Who would stop them from doing the same with this elite?3) Then why can you try to argue that this elite does not fit by trying to disprove things from a point of view of negative assessment?4) So does yours, but for some reason you want me to acknowledge and address them5).....6) Why not? You are arguing a negative statement.7) Why use sand when enemies already geared up against sand? Again, you state that "nobody can prove a negative", yet you try to do this all the time. And you still refuse to address my comments. So, please, for the love of sky wizard, answer why should necromancer become a scourge in the desert and it could become a reaper and just freeze the desert?7.2) Right back at you.

1) what did i miss?

2) reaper was themed after slasher horror vilains like jason voorhees

3) you can disprove given evidence not prove the non-existence of something (i can't disprove leprechauns but i can tell a potato doesn't prove their existence)

4) your statement would only be correct if scourge only added sand abilities to necro which is falls because the fact that one of the skills uses the realm of torment (and some other abilities) proves that it isn't a sand necro but a necro that uses their environment (being a dessert) to their advantage

6) snark

7)because sand is redibly available all around you in a dessert. (point 3) because a scourge was created to benefit from a desert enviroment and magic requires effort, why don't the ppl of elona turn the dessert into farm land. that'd be way more convenient then quicksand.

7.2) your trying my patience

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Regon Phoenix.8215

Regon Phoenix.8215

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@derd.6413 said:

@derd.6413 said:i think skulls would be to detailed for an auto attack, maybe use something simpler like a soul or something.

also a phoenix themed elite would probably work better on ele rather then necro.

You mean "too detailed"?And yes, phoenix might work better for elementalist, but it could also work for a necromancer, because phoenix theme is about life, death and rebirth.

i'd disagree. necromancer (despite literally having death in the name) seem to be more about dark powers then the cycle of life and death. maybe if you'd take a more 'evil' creature it'd work better.

From official description of Anet:"Necromancers feed on life force, which they can leverage offensively or use to delay their own demise."

Well, while necromancer is mostly a dark figure, it is also a class designed on a principle of balance between life and death. While core necromancer uses dark magic to keep itself alive, this elite would rather use phoenix-type of magic to keep itself alive.Also, while elementalist could be Phoenix class, necromancer can be Dark Phoenix Class.

you see the issue is that you change the type of magic they use instead of how to use the magic (like reaper/scourge) or add magic that complements the magic they already have (like spellbreaker or holosmith).

also putting 'dark' in front of something doesn't make it different. at best it can be used to differentiate alliances.

Yeah, classical necromancer use dark magic to do X, Y and Z, while this necromancer would use phoenix-style magic to accomplish exact same goals.

Also, if putting "dark" in front of something doesn't make it different, then....:1) Magic2) Dark MagicAre they still the same?

kinda yes, dark magic is a type of magic (like how sharks are a type of fish) and it's an easy way to collectivize curtain magics (death magic, blood magic, demon magic, etc.)

also a 'dark phenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid

Well, then you should have no problems with dark blood/death magician (necromancer) turning to dark fire magic (rebirth elite).

i'll add to my edit:

a 'dark phoenix'-themed necro is in a sense a 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro which is something to try and avoid because then you could make everything fit every class. like a blue phoenix guardian or a purple phoenix mesmer etc.

Why though? Scourge is Sand-based mage, and elementalist can also be the same exact type of mage. If we go by this philosophy then:1) Necromancer can only be dark magic user raising undeads2) Guardian can only be a defensive class3) Thief can only be stealth based classAnd so on.I don't think that would be healthy or innovative for a game.

scourge uses sand because they were desert themed. (this also applies to mirrage and probably some others i'm forgetting) which makes sens cause it was 'created'(?) in a dessert

or for short a desert-themed necro and not a 'necro-themed dessert'-themed necro (unlike your suggested 'necro-themed phoenix'-themed necro)

Nah, it is necro-themed desert-themed elite. It could be as well elementalist-themed desert-themed elite for elementalist: sands, heat, oasis, etc. Elementalist could as well be scourge:1) Fuse eath and fire attunements into sand attunement. Sword skills or dual skills could summon sand-shades, or new healing/utility/elite could summon shades2) Fuse water and air attunements into oasis attunement: it could be focused on barriers, regeneration and similar effects.

And same goes for this suggestion. Of course elementalist can get elite like rebirth, but necromancer can get it as well.

1) don't only argue against half my arguments

2) barrier isn't necro exclusive

3) scourge magic was developed(?) by joko (so a dessert theme necro wasn't sucked out of their thumb)

4) fire and earth wouldn't make sand that'd be magma or glass

5) reincarnation is a lost art this would spit in the face of this lore tid bit (i did just remember this)

Death and resurrection in the original Guild Wars were renamed to "defeat" and "revival" to match lore, as
resurrections are no longer possible as easily as 250 years ago before the Human Gods ceased their direct interaction with Tyria.
Because of this, defeated players are never considered to be dead in lore.
-wiki

lastly i'm arguing against themes, not mechanics

1) I only argue with relevant parts2) Yeah, for example not-scourge non-desert-themed elementalist have them3) What?4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.5) Why? Isn't all elite spec were kinda lost before they became available to players?

Well, and where does that quote from wiki contradicts a concept of phoenix themed elite? i says "no longer possible as easily as", so it means it is possible, but pretty hard. Someone might even say: beyond grasp of normal mortals, but not to those who are between life and death throughout their lives.

1) you only answer things that are convenient to you which is just bad debate etiquette

2) your point? (also once again i'm arguing against themes not mechanics)

3)i mean there was a pre-existing lore for scourge (compared to your elite spec since the only reference to phoenixes in gw are skins and an ele skill)

4)'dessert hot' is some poor justification to why earth+fire=sand

5)elites weren't lost they require special training/circumstances (brain surgery isn't 'lost' to a doctor that doesn't know it)

6) because then resurrection would be accessible to every necro who went there. and resurrection was 'lost' for a reason (namely that magical resurrection devalues death in a story because you can just bring ppl back to life. there's probably a few other reasons but this is the only one i remember)

1) And you don't answer at all, which is far worse. Also, addressing things you can argue is literally debate rule number 1. What is the point about trying to argue about things you can't argue about?2) Point being that phoenix is not elementalist exclusive3) Are you an expert on all lore in gw2? How do you know there are no way this can be cannon in one way or another?4) Just like like necromancer+sand is even more poor justification for scourge. Your point being?5) Well golly me, just imagine requiring special training or circumstances to unlock magic which was considered lost6) And why not? Why can some dedicated people who abandons everything to gain new powers exclusive to them regain lost magic? Regions unlocked by hot and pof were also lost before expansion.

1) at least acknowledge them

2) just because barrier isn't an exclusive
mechanic
doesn't mean that phoenix isn't a ele exclusive
theme

3) alright then, on what gw lore is this based because i sure as heck couldn't find anything outside the previously given

4)what kind of sentence was that? but more importantly if you think scourge is nothing more then sand necro that'd only proves to me you don't know what you're on about

5) that'd still doesn't prove that previous point that elite specs were 'lost' instead of (let's say) developed

6.1) those would be called extremist archaeologists.

6.2)those regions weren't lost they were inaccessible.

6)but the main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

also if a necro wanted to achieve immortality, wouldn't they try to become a lich like joko instead.

1) You too2) But that doesn't mean the opposite of that. Until a class is made on specific team that theme remain open for all classes.3) Well, mostly phoenix weapon skins, celestial bosses from first gw game, and the fact that in one certain WvW map there is underground fiery temple beneath the desert. I am not expert on the lore, but neither are you, so unless you can provide any evidence showing that phoenix CAN'T be related to necromancer as specifically stated someone in the lore, you can't deny the posiblity.4) And just look who refuse to acknowledge/argue against points.5) And that doesn't disprove that elite spec can be rediscovered from some ancient stuff6) This elite wasn't lost, it was inaccessible.Also, if necro wanted to live in a desert, wouldn't they try to freeze it like reapers freeze stuff?

1) i always do

2)then let's have a water thief, an angel mesmer or a romance engineer. (that was sarcasm) unfortunatly for you some themes make more sense for curtain classes then others and trying to make them fit by recoloring them is just lazy.

3) nobody can prove a negative. (besides @"Dadnir.5038" already addressed this)

4)your statement was unclear and seemingly just false

5)that's true but (see 6)

6)very funny but will you adress the fact that my main argument is that you should not introduce magical resurrection outside of special one-time events (because previously given reason)

7)no? why would they use cold against their enemies when the environment is punishingly hot? that's like using water against dehydrated enemies

7.2) don't dodge my questions with snark

1) Doesn't seem so2) Your point being? Reaper also doesn't really fit necromancer (cloth, gs, melee), but Anet made it look like it fits. Who would stop them from doing the same with this elite?3) Then why can you try to argue that this elite does not fit by trying to disprove things from a point of view of negative assessment?4) So does yours, but for some reason you want me to acknowledge and address them5).....6) Why not? You are arguing a negative statement.7) Why use sand when enemies already geared up against sand? Again, you state that "nobody can prove a negative", yet you try to do this all the time. And you still refuse to address my comments. So, please, for the love of sky wizard, answer why should necromancer become a scourge in the desert and it could become a reaper and just freeze the desert?7.2) Right back at you.

1) what did i miss?

2) reaper was themed after slasher horror vilains like jason voorhees

3) you can disprove given evidence not prove the non-existence of something (i can't disprove leprechauns but i can tell a potato doesn't prove their existence)

4) your statement would only be correct if scourge only added sand abilities to necro which is falls because the fact that one of the skills uses the realm of torment (and some other abilities) proves that it isn't a sand necro but a necro that uses their environment (being a dessert) to their advantage

6) snark

7)because sand is redibly available all around you in a dessert. (point 3) because a scourge was created to benefit from a desert enviroment and magic requires effort, why don't the ppl of elona turn the dessert into farm land. that'd be way more convenient then quicksand.

7.2) your trying my patience

1) Lots of things2) Ok, i will use your logic against you: Point at any horror villain like jason voorhees in guild wars lore.3) So, you can't disprove that phoenix do not fit necromancer and i can't prove it fits it exclusively, so why do you want argue about a subject you can't make any points on?4) Ok, lets assume your premise. Scourge uses environment he is in (desert, not dessert) for its advantage. Why can same necromancer use phoenix-type magic in the same way?7) And fire is readily available all beneath the crust. And rebirth necromancer was created to benefit from fire. You see, any point you make about scourge automatically fits this elite. You are basically arguing against yourself why some things you like are fine while other things you don't like are not fine.7.2) Right back at you.

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Dadnir.5038

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:7) Why use sand when enemies already geared up against sand?

This is related to the origin of the e-spec. Supposedly the e-spec have been created in the arid environment of the elona desert. It use what it's born into not things that are totally unrelated. Sand is supposed to be a cheap ressource in the desert (IRL that's arguable but that's not the question), ain't it logical that it's easier to gain mastery over the cheap ressource that you can find everywhere while it's harder to gain mastery over the uncommon ressource that you can't afford?

The process of evolution, or should I say the genesis, of the technique mastered by the scourge followed the course of blending with the environent instead of going against because it was easier.

In this regard, scourge is astonishingly the least paradoxal specialisation of the necromancer, because for once it goes with the flow instead of going against the flow of the natural course of event.

On a side not, enemies are not geared up against sand, they've gone throught the same process as the scourge and adapted to their environment to the point that it became part of them.

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Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:1) Lots of things2) Ok, i will use your logic against you: Point at any horror villain like jason voorhees in guild wars lore.

I think the anomaly in crucible of eternity can do the trick.

4) Ok, lets assume your premise. Scourge uses environment he is in (desert, not dessert) for its advantage. Why can same necromancer use phoenix-type magic in the same way?

What's the pheonix environment? How is a phoenix birthed? (outisde the fact that phoenix in gw lore are unrelated to rebirth)I think in gw's lore, the closest mythic beast would be the kirin, which take on the priest's ability but is more a lightning related beast in common lore. In faction they were mostly corrupted and smited things more than they would have focused on sustain.

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ZDragon.3046

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wow there is alot of back and forth going on here x.xI think what they are trying to say is that you can have necro do other things but it cant be a 180 flip from performing hexs and curses to praise and restoration. (this is a rough example)

Ideally if you want a good guy necromancer you would be looking at some concept like joko.He gives people their lives back (restoration)But its not as full hearted as it seems in plain text the (awakened) are restored with most of their minds intact but their bodies degrade to some extent and in some cases completely rot into a undead monster like form. Not to mention they can still have their will controlled by joko himself. Its a blessing and a curse at the same time.

Many people see him as a good guy despite him being a twisted lich we know he is. He has helped just as many people as he has hurt for all we know.

So to do a good guy theme with necro you would still have to find some way to dirty it up a bit.Themes like this are incredibly hard to do because you have to ride the line without stepping over too far to make what should be a nasty profession and magical art sound too justifying but you cant presume the route of a holy punisher either because thats more fitting for the guardian (hints dragon hunter) than the necro profession..

@derd.6413 said:2) reaper was themed after slasher horror vilains like jason voorhees

Was it really? (I legit dont actually know what it was themed from) But its something ive always wondered. Like how did going to the jungle and fighting there unlock the power of reaper within the necromancer.

Scourge I can understand because of joko and all that and being in the desert there are people AI's there that fill the gaps of which the character could possibly learn from.

I never found the direct line for how a necromancer would actually go about learning and unlocking the potential of reaper or it was just not made very clear to me in HoT.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@"derd.6413" said:2) reaper was themed after slasher horror vilains like jason voorhees

Was it really? (I legit dont actually know what it was themed from) But its something ive always wondered. Like how did going to the jungle and fighting there unlock the power of reaper within the necromancer.

Scourge I can understand because of joko and all that and being in the desert there are people AI's there that fill the gaps of which the character could possibly learn from.

I never found the direct line for how a necromancer would actually go about learning and unlocking the potential of reaper or it was just not made very clear to me in HoT.

The reaper’s thematic roots come from classic movie monsters and survival horror games. We pulled elements from slow but seemingly unstoppable horror monsters like Pyramid Head and Jason Voorhees to try to craft the feeling of a relentless pursuer who becomes extremely deadly once they close the distance to their prey. The greatsword is the ideal weapon for expressing this sense of dread due to its size and weight, but there was one thing that was missing—what’s a reaper without a scythe?

source: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/meet-the-reaper-necromancers-elite-specialization/

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ZDragon.3046

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@derd.6413 said:

@derd.6413 said:2) reaper was themed after slasher horror vilains like jason voorhees

Was it really? (I legit dont actually know what it was themed from) But its something ive always wondered. Like how did going to the jungle and fighting there unlock the power of reaper within the necromancer.

Scourge I can understand because of joko and all that and being in the desert there are people AI's there that fill the gaps of which the character could possibly learn from.

I never found the direct line for how a necromancer would actually go about learning and unlocking the potential of reaper or it was just not made very clear to me in HoT.

The reaper’s thematic roots come from classic movie monsters and survival horror games. We pulled elements from slow but seemingly unstoppable horror monsters like Pyramid Head and Jason Voorhees to try to craft the feeling of a relentless pursuer who becomes extremely deadly once they close the distance to their prey. The greatsword is the ideal weapon for expressing this sense of dread due to its size and weight, but there was one thing that was missing—what’s a reaper without a scythe?

source:

You know i totally forgot about this post they did back during the betas.

Although ill be honest watching that video I wonder why necro does not have some of the smooth animations now that it did for that video. Or why some of the skills dont work the same way. (must faster reaper 5 that apparently stunned at least 3 targets would be sooooo nice in todays age)Watching that video just make me want to play my reaper even more despite the issues necro has xD

Thanks for linking this! Im just all excited for reaper all over again like its something new and i dont know why.

Although it still leaves me curious as to how they got this power. This only explains the design choices behind it. It does not hint or poke at how they actually learn how to or where to become said reapers. Maybe we will never know or it just happens with enough time and training.

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@derd.6413 said:2) reaper was themed after slasher horror vilains like jason voorhees

Was it really? (I legit dont actually know what it was themed from) But its something ive always wondered. Like how did going to the jungle and fighting there unlock the power of reaper within the necromancer.

Scourge I can understand because of joko and all that and being in the desert there are people AI's there that fill the gaps of which the character could possibly learn from.

I never found the direct line for how a necromancer would actually go about learning and unlocking the potential of reaper or it was just not made very clear to me in HoT.

The reaper’s thematic roots come from classic movie monsters and survival horror games. We pulled elements from slow but seemingly unstoppable horror monsters like Pyramid Head and Jason Voorhees to try to craft the feeling of a relentless pursuer who becomes extremely deadly once they close the distance to their prey. The greatsword is the ideal weapon for expressing this sense of dread due to its size and weight, but there was one thing that was missing—what’s a reaper without a scythe?

source:

You know i totally forgot about this post they did back during the betas.

Although ill be honest watching that video I wonder why necro does not have some of the smooth animations now that it did for that video. Or why some of the skills dont work the same way. (must faster reaper 5 that apparently stunned at least 3 targets would be sooooo nice in todays age)Watching that video just make me want to play my reaper even more despite the issues necro has xD

Thanks for linking this! Im just all excited for reaper all over again like its something new and i dont know why.

Although it still leaves me curious as to how they got this power. This only explains the design choices behind it. It does not hint or poke at how they actually learn how to or where to become said reapers. Maybe we will never know or it just happens with enough time and training.

maybe they'll add hot elite spec npcs next april's fool day

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Regon Phoenix.8215

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:1) Lots of things2) Ok, i will use your logic against you: Point at any horror villain like jason voorhees in guild wars lore.

I think the anomaly in crucible of eternity can do the trick.

4) Ok, lets assume your premise. Scourge uses environment he is in (desert, not dessert) for its advantage. Why can same necromancer use phoenix-type magic in the same way?

What's the pheonix environment? How is a phoenix birthed? (outisde the fact that phoenix in gw lore are unrelated to rebirth)I think in gw's lore, the closest mythic beast would be the kirin, which take on the priest's ability but is more a lightning related beast in common lore. In faction they were mostly corrupted and smited things more than they would have focused on sustain.

As i said before, i am not an expert on lore. I just find something interesting and make something more out of it.Next expansion could have something to do with underground and it would be a fitting place to find sleeping phoenixes inside of magma flow.

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@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@derd.6413 said:7) if your not interested in criticism just say you don't care7?) Criticism? You call your unintelligent flapdoodle criticism? Don't make me laugh.

You guys wouldnt happen to play asura in game would you.In that last bit you both sound like 2 asura going head to head in a lab xD or at least thats how i envisioned it in my head. ;D

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@derd.6413 said:7) if your not interested in criticism just say you don't care7?) Criticism? You call your unintelligent flapdoodle criticism? Don't make me laugh.

You guys wouldnt happen to play asura in game would you.In that last bit you both sound like 2 asura going head to head in a lab xD or at least thats how i envisioned it in my head. ;D

i play all the races. but i do have asura intellect B)

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Regon Phoenix.8215

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@ZDragon.3046 said:

@derd.6413 said:7) if your not interested in criticism just say you don't care7?) Criticism? You call your unintelligent flapdoodle criticism? Don't make me laugh.

You guys wouldnt happen to play asura in game would you.In that last bit you both sound like 2 asura going head to head in a lab xD or at least thats how i envisioned it in my head. ;D

Nah, but having intelligence of non-existent being would mean having no intelligence.

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Yannir.4132

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Phoenixes just don't feel like a good theme for necromancers.Even though the original real world myths actually describe the phoenix as a creature of the Underworld, the only being(except for the ferryman) able to travel the River Styx(name differs between different mythologies, using the Greek name here as a placeholder) both ways at will.But modern interpretations of the word usually refer to the more fantastical creature that's loaded with the themes of purity, rebirth and rejuvenation. That latter interpretation is the one people think about(including me). Most don't even know the real world myth as well as they could to be able to see the difference.And I'm saying now that this opinion isn't something you can reason me out of. It's a feel, no amount of reasoning will change that.I do appreciate you trying to bring a fresh spin on the class that's plagued by the basic archetypes of death knights, vampires, ghouls and dark magic,etc..

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Regon Phoenix.8215

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@Yannir.4132 said:

4) Really? Is sand earth based material? Yes it is. Is desert filled with sand? Yes it is. Is desert hot? Yes it is. So fire+earth=sand.

Also I have to interfere with this statement as it's objectively false. Deserts are NOT exclusively hot, in fact at night temperatures in a desert can drop to freezing levels.

True, but same logic applies like you said yourself about phoenix: when you say desert/sand, then people think about hot places and hot beaches. And you can't reason that out of people.

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