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Feelings about classes in general ( hope anet will read this ;( )


zwirek.7804
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Hi all this may be TLDR but ill try to get with this as short as i cani came back after long break to gw2 about 2 months ago tried to get some info about classes and so on and i end up reading posts about op classes and weak classes and now just wanted to clarify few things about them for new and maybe older players and for anet aswell im not gonna go for every class tho only those so called op or trashill start with my main classeswarri

  • in pve warrior is moving baner in any high lvl fractal / raid group which reminds me of ele with fgs / icebow which is no good but on top of this can deal good dmg and can stand his ground not getting 1 shoted so thats nice and here is not much to talk about core warri have good dmg baners and good cc / berserker have good cc aoe and condi dmg / spellbreak have bit less cc than core warri but more dmg so yea
  • in pvp core warri seems fine not best but its ok can hit hard but have telegraphic attacks like always had / zerker is kinda weak right now as i see only condi zerkers on pvp but they are meh anyway nothing special here more on weak side of the table / spellbreak can deal good dmg is hard to kill in good hands and overall is good can be countered realy easy kited around and if you can kite him long enough and force him to use skills / resistance you gonna force him to run away or stay and probly get killed ;s but it can be unpleasant to fight spellbreaker yea it can be or maybe hard to fight will fit better

necro

  • in pve necro is slow but easy thats true but core necro is usless almost everywhere can be used only as minionmancer to solo stuff like bounties etc but overall needs rework cause atm its jsut not good at all / reaper have same problems as core nec as it shares almost everything with necro only better thing is that can cleave stuff and have way better cc / scourge is good overall not best but good but still after 6 ( i think its 6 years alredy ) years only necro left in a bag of kick from party team back in time ranger engi and necro now only necro left there its normal for me when im palying my nec that im kicked from fractals / raids before i say hello or sometimes i can see things like can you swap to real class or so thats sad af anet after so long time necro is still in this spot and nothing is changing here next patch will be like always nerf here nerf there and buff 5% more dmg on axe -.-
  • in pvp core necro is usless there is nothing to say about it just trash af ( before someone gonna cry and argue its not cause he can kill or so you know you can kill someone with a spoon or a stick which not means its usefull tool to do so ... got my point ;) ) / reaper as i saw on forum is called usless in pvp and thats true BUT can hit hard as a truck its usless cause in every teamfight is focused as 1st target and end up dead before can do a thing but if reaper can catch someone and land his hits its huge dmg / scourge called as 1 of the op classes and SOOOO oppresive and so on thats more or less bullsh ... thing that is oppresive about scourge is GIANT RED CIRCLES PULLSING AROUND ye thats annoying af and can deal toons of condi spike dmg thats true but in the end of the day without support healer or under heavy focus its not so hard to take scourge down and about 1v1 scourge if you have some condi clears and you know when to use them its not so hard to fight them and win most of times overall scourge is better than necro / reaper cause anet gave up on that OP SECOND HEALTHBAR bullsh( yes i think death shroud is core reason why necro is in so bad spot overall cause in pve this give us good sustain but in pvp its not that rare ds is down before you can cast 1 skill to the end ) and gave him other tools to work around still there is secret of countering scourge .... dodge his burn skills and get distance when he is in desert shroud and yea its unpleasant to fight scourge as those big circles are messing so much and its hard to see anything cause of them

than we have

rev

  • in pve rev is overall not so good probly only friend for necro players as i see them kicked from fractals / raids aswell
  • in pvp its rare to see rev but when there is 1 most of the times its power burst rev who can go down kinda fast but can hit hard af but overall its not good to have 1 build that is working or even 2 builds are no good as there are clases who can go naked and still be good ...

ele

  • in pve ele is king every kind of ele king of all kings always and ever thats stupid that this class ( on golem but in real fight can do the same sometimes ) can dish out 60-70k of burst dps keep this for 2-3 sec and than go slowly to 40-45 k dps trying to test this out without gear and food i can easy go for 35+ k on golem without ascendant gear and food as i dont have gear on ele its not my class
  • in pvp core ele noone is playig as tempest and weaver are so much better / tempest can do same things as always there is no much to say / weaver can deal good dmg and keep his ground overall this class seems balanced more or less in pvp only thing is stupid is number of dodges he have ... dodges on skills dodges on v dodges on weapon skills more dodges more more sometimes fighting weaver who knows how to play feels liek you are fighting dardevil on steroidsengi
  • in pve engi is good as before hard and there is loots of micro into playstyle so you need to like it or get used to it but overall its strong and good for solo stuff and for party etc engi and holo tho / scrapper is not so good at least playing my scrapper is like meh and i cant see any way to fit him into pve without overusing kits power power scrapper is weak condi is even weaker ...in pvp core engi is not good at all / scrapper is not so strong but its not that weak too its just nothing special / holo is just ... hmmm can deal tooooons of dmg in just 1-2 sec on top of this have horrible cc can kick you around like ball and you can do shit about this if you dont have toons of stability cause 2 dodges and 1 stack of stabi sometimes is just not enough with holo around when there is support firebrand and holo 10 stacks of stability is not enough ahahah but yea dmg and cc is jsut extremally op in holo kit ... srsly to the point of stupidness sometime and overall fighting vs holo is so unpleasant cause of this enormous cc and dmg in same time ...

thief

  • in pve i have no idea about thief as i dont like this class in pve at all only thing i know is thief can deal good dmg in pve thats all
  • in pvp core thief is meh at least i dont like it / dardevil can do his things as always / dedeye is jsut hard hitting version of normal teef but for god sake there is noone in this game who can 1 shot someone with 2,7k armor and 19k hp ... oh wait deadeye can i know anet want deadeye to be sniper or hard hitting monster that can jump from nowhere thats good but at least give us a way to counter it atm at least for me its really unpleasant to fight that running on stealth almost 24/7 findin high place and starting to shot you from there good idea and till you can see him its nice and there is that red line going to target but when in stealth there is notnig at all just bum you are dead cause of what ... if there is a red line going to you when deadeye is aiming from rifle thats ok but atm even testing with mu friend there is no red line anywhere when thief is stealthed no signs of attack or anything ( if there is and i can not see it how to turn it on ? ) unpleasant to fight a team with deadeye af

and now the main event most broken shi* ever existed

Mesmer ( Clown or Beloved child of anet )

  • in pve core mesmer op af good dmg can solo stuff etc / chrono op af dmg from nowhere can solo stuff probly most useful class in game in any kind of party / mirage less useful than chrono but way more dmg
  • in pvp core mes would be strong and op if someone would play it but why when there is chrono and mirage / mirage ppl cry mirage is op af and no mesmer as class is mirage can deal toons of dmg from nowhere spam and even 1 shot you if build that way everything done from stealth to be even more funny unpleasant to fight agnist everywhere and everytime in every situation but if you can somehow ( !!! ) last his 1st burst and second and another one and another than yea you will force him to run away for next 10 sec and come back to burst you again dont think about cc him thats impossible and dont think to deal dmg to him as he can spam skills to keep evading but best thing is anet is learning from mistakes = traper dh in his glory perma block and attack in same time in that time there was to play around it ... little but always ( unblock skills ) now we have mirage who can perma evade and attack in same time and there is no counterplay to this mmmm anet knows toxic mechanic is a good mechanic and 10 clones running around and attacking is different story :D / chrono THIS thing is most op the spam of grav wells + enormous burst and even more ways to evade dmg than mirage even more clones ehhh enoughfighting ANY type of mesmer is unpleasant as the clone spam attacks from everywhere and target limit ( yes i catch myself not doing dmg to mesmer cause of too many clones around and limit for target on my weap i dont know its a bug or intentional but thats another great thing about them ) dmg and constant attacks from stealth ... simply mesmer dont give a single fk atm mesmer mesmer who always was in good spot in pvp and pve with a bit of ups and downs but overall always good spot ( there is thread about mesmer spot in game in last years somewhere i had it bookmarked but lost it ) now is in best spot any class ever was and probly will be thats just simply stupid there are classes like necro / rev who need work on necro is weak since release with ups and downs even some time in meta but most of the times cause of bugs or not intended mechanics and still mesmer got rework and now playign pvp is jsut mesmerfiestamost unpleasant thing to play vs is 2 mesmers and 2 necros as mesmers can deal toooooons of dmg and spam clones ( 2 mesmers can kick out up to 10 clones in times or even more im not sure ) and on top of this pulsing areas from necro you can see nothing only big mess on screen and thats why ppl thinks scourge is so op big pusling circles and bam you are dead than you think that circle killed my but no that was jsut a big red circle corrupting your boons mesmer killed you from stealth

so its longer than i wanted it to be my point with this post is to let more ppl know ( if they dont alredy know ) that state which pvp/pve is atm is no good at all and its not 1st time its happening back at hot release we had reaper strong af dh strong af and chrono strong af and you know what ? i left the game cause dh was not changed a bit ( got cosmetic nerf after some time tho ) reaper lost almost everything and chrono who was op at the time of release got few nerfs to dmg of wells but in same time buffs and than got buffed patch by patch buffs buffs and even more buffs thats just not fair im bit salty here but as warrior / necro main in simply sad how devs are doing here there are classes who need work on and are waiting longer but nah mesmer is still top of all topsgw2 announced no holy trinity and in the end of the day its not bad idea but they are forcing players to fit more specyfic playstyle on some classes and elite specs can solve this thing as you want to do condi dmg go this spec you want power dmg go that spec and there is long forgoten one called core specmost classes have only 1-2 ? maybe 3 working builds where only classes like warrior ( i thing warrior is most balanced class in pvp and pve in game right now ) or mesmer have more on mesmer whatever you have will work anyway but

last thing is if you read up to here gj you have no live or nothing interesting to do right now ahhaha i just wish 1 day anet will decide they want 1 class to be op as we have atm or they want to balance game liek is in for example Smite ( 3rd person look moba ) where everything is op = nothing isthere always will be someone who will cry about game and this or that class and i can be called 1 of them but before i started to cry and think of shi* i played game tried to paly around some classes and before calling them op i tried to find a way to counter them or at least understand how they works i hope this will help new players as i can see quite a lot of them now

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So for all that explanation, nothing particularly insightful was said. Even going so far as saying that its rehashing the usual things said in every thread on the topic. I can sum the whole thing up in just a couple of sentences......

  • Players will abuse whatever works
  • When something stops working, they'll move on the next best thing, and abuse that
  • Complain about how something is better then what they use, or takes too much effort to use.

The larger or wider the player base is, statistically the average starts to lower toward the lowest common denominator. This is on top of the overarching problem of "balancing is hard". Players like things to be powerful, because thats the most efficient way to achieve victory. But they also hate fighting things that are powerful, because that makes it harder to win. Competitive modes are usually something close to a zero sum game; which makes it nigh impossible to design a system where everyone can at least feel like they win.

The Holy Grail Unicorn would be a game where losing can be just as fun as winning..... but thats largely being countered by competitive players themselves, and their desire for the game to emphasize victory and loss as a measure of player value. Thats kind of the reason a hardcore PvPs tend to use the term "Carebear" to describe PvE content, as the idea of everyone winning by default to be a cultural madness.

But there is one thing both PvP and PvE players have in common...... the majority of them are pieces of hot garbage (either by skill level, personality, or both), and they think its up to the game to make them feel good about themselves. And that much of this discussion of balance and fairness and good or bad design often boils down to the real "Meta" of any game..... blame shifting. And for what its worth, its kind of funny how some of the Anet devs have openly tried to shift it back to the players. :p

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@zwirek.7804 said:

ele

  • in pvp core ele noone is playig as tempest and weaver are so much better / tempest can do same things as always there is no much to say / weaver can deal good dmg and keep his ground overall this class seems balanced more or less in pvp only thing is stupid is number of dodges he have ... dodges on skills dodges on v dodges on weapon skills more dodges more more sometimes fighting weaver who knows how to play feels liek you are fighting dardevil on steroids

I think a lot of elementalists will disagree with you on that statement at the beginning. Core elementalist is just as viable as both tempest and weaver and in my opinion elementalist has by far the best elite specializations that are actual sidegrades rather than upgrades, 'cough' Holosmith.

engiin pvp core engi is not good at all / scrapper is not so strong but its not that weak too its just nothing special / holo is just ... hmmm can deal tooooons of dmg in just 1-2 sec on top of this have horrible cc can kick you around like ball and you can do kitten about this if you dont have toons of stability cause 2 dodges and 1 stack of stabi sometimes is just not enough with holo around when there is support firebrand and holo 10 stacks of stability is not enough ahahah but yea dmg and cc is jsut extremally op in holo kit ... srsly to the point of stupidness sometime and overall fighting vs holo is so unpleasant cause of this enormous cc and dmg in same time ...

I completely agree. Holosmith is meant to be a glass cannon specialization, but being able to use healing and utility skills gives the specialization too much sustain to even be considered a glass cannon. Maybe if the Holosmith couldn't use any other skills than the Photon Forge skills similar to the necromancers' Shroud form, then I'd be fine with it being a glass cannon. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

thief

  • in pvp core thief is meh at least i dont like it / dardevil can do his things as always / dedeye is jsut hard hitting version of normal teef but for god sake there is noone in this game who can 1 shot someone with 2,7k armor and 19k hp ... oh wait deadeye can i know anet want deadeye to be sniper or hard hitting monster that can jump from nowhere thats good but at least give us a way to counter it atm at least for me its really unpleasant to fight that running on stealth almost 24/7 findin high place and starting to shot you from there good idea and till you can see him its nice and there is that red line going to target but when in stealth there is notnig at all just bum you are dead cause of what ... if there is a red line going to you when deadeye is aiming from rifle thats ok but atm even testing with mu friend there is no red line anywhere when thief is stealthed no signs of attack or anything ( if there is and i can not see it how to turn it on ? ) unpleasant to fight a team with deadeye af

I understand that deadeyes can be a pain in the rear, but they're not the hardest to kill, nor are there any good deadeye thieves. Even as a core s/d thief (which by the way, how dare you call it meh) I've never had a hard time beating them. Even with core elementalist and core warrior I down them so fast that it's hilarious. CC and projectile reflects are your best tools when it comes to fighting deadeye thieves.

and now the main event most broken shi* ever existed

Mesmer ( Clown or Beloved child of anet )

  • in pvp core mes would be strong and op if someone would play it but why when there is chrono and mirage / mirage ppl cry mirage is op af and no mesmer as class is mirage can deal toons of dmg from nowhere spam and even 1 shot you if build that way everything done from stealth to be even more funny unpleasant to fight agnist everywhere and everytime in every situation but if you can somehow ( !!! ) last his 1st burst and second and another one and another than yea you will force him to run away for next 10 sec and come back to burst you again dont think about cc him thats impossible and dont think to deal dmg to him as he can spam skills to keep evading but best thing is anet is learning from mistakes = traper dh in his glory perma block and attack in same time in that time there was to play around it ... little but always ( unblock skills ) now we have mirage who can perma evade and attack in same time and there is no counterplay to this mmmm anet knows toxic mechanic is a good mechanic and 10 clones running around and attacking is different story :D / chrono THIS thing is most op the spam of grav wells + enormous burst and even more ways to evade dmg than mirage even more clones ehhh enoughfighting ANY type of mesmer is unpleasant as the clone spam attacks from everywhere and target limit ( yes i catch myself not doing dmg to mesmer cause of too many clones around and limit for target on my weap i dont know its a bug or intentional but thats another great thing about them ) dmg and constant attacks from stealth ... simply mesmer dont give a single kitten atm mesmer mesmer who always was in good spot in pvp and pve with a bit of ups and downs but overall always good spot ( there is thread about mesmer spot in game in last years somewhere i had it bookmarked but lost it ) now is in best spot any class ever was and probly will be thats just simply stupid there are classes like necro / rev who need work on necro is weak since release with ups and downs even some time in meta but most of the times cause of bugs or not intended mechanics and still mesmer got rework and now playign pvp is jsut mesmerfiestamost unpleasant thing to play vs is 2 mesmers and 2 necros as mesmers can deal toooooons of dmg and spam clones ( 2 mesmers can kick out up to 10 clones in times or even more im not sure ) and on top of this pulsing areas from necro you can see nothing only big mess on screen and thats why ppl thinks scourge is so op big pusling circles and bam you are dead than you think that circle killed my but no that was jsut a big red circle corrupting your boons mesmer killed you from stealth

Nerfs for the mesmer are right around the corner, buddy. Hope you're excited as many people are.

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@Hoodie.1045 said:

ele
  • in pvp core ele noone is playig as tempest and weaver are so much better / tempest can do same things as always there is no much to say / weaver can deal good dmg and keep his ground overall this class seems balanced more or less in pvp only thing is stupid is number of dodges he have ... dodges on skills dodges on v dodges on weapon skills more dodges more more sometimes fighting weaver who knows how to play feels liek you are fighting dardevil on steroids

I think a lot of elementalists will disagree with you on that statement at the beginning. Core elementalist is just as viable as both tempest and weaver and in my opinion elementalist has by far the best elite specializations that are actual sidegrades rather than upgrades, 'cough' Holosmith.

engiin pvp core engi is not good at all / scrapper is not so strong but its not that weak too its just nothing special / holo is just ... hmmm can deal tooooons of dmg in just 1-2 sec on top of this have horrible cc can kick you around like ball and you can do kitten about this if you dont have toons of stability cause 2 dodges and 1 stack of stabi sometimes is just not enough with holo around when there is support firebrand and holo 10 stacks of stability is not enough ahahah but yea dmg and cc is jsut extremally op in holo kit ... srsly to the point of stupidness sometime and overall fighting vs holo is so unpleasant cause of this enormous cc and dmg in same time ...

I completely agree. Holosmith is meant to be a glass cannon specialization, but being able to use healing and utility skills gives the specialization too much sustain to even be considered a glass cannon. Maybe if the Holosmith couldn't use any other skills than the Photon Forge skills similar to the necromancers' Shroud form, then I'd be fine with it being a glass cannon. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

thief
  • in pvp core thief is meh at least i dont like it / dardevil can do his things as always / dedeye is jsut hard hitting version of normal teef but for god sake there is noone in this game who can 1 shot someone with 2,7k armor and 19k hp ... oh wait deadeye can i know anet want deadeye to be sniper or hard hitting monster that can jump from nowhere thats good but at least give us a way to counter it atm at least for me its really unpleasant to fight that running on stealth almost 24/7 findin high place and starting to shot you from there good idea and till you can see him its nice and there is that red line going to target but when in stealth there is notnig at all just bum you are dead cause of what ... if there is a red line going to you when deadeye is aiming from rifle thats ok but atm even testing with mu friend there is no red line anywhere when thief is stealthed no signs of attack or anything ( if there is and i can not see it how to turn it on ? ) unpleasant to fight a team with deadeye af

I understand that deadeyes can be a pain in the rear, but they're not the hardest to kill, nor are there any good deadeye thieves. Even as a core s/d thief (which by the way, how dare you call it meh) I've never had a hard time beating them. Even with core elementalist and core warrior I down them so fast that it's hilarious. CC and projectile reflects are your best tools when it comes to fighting deadeye thieves.

and now the main event most broken shi* ever existed

Mesmer ( Clown or Beloved child of anet )
  • in pvp core mes would be strong and op if someone would play it but why when there is chrono and mirage / mirage ppl cry mirage is op af and no mesmer as class is mirage can deal toons of dmg from nowhere spam and even 1 shot you if build that way everything done from stealth to be even more funny unpleasant to fight agnist everywhere and everytime in every situation but if you can somehow ( !!! ) last his 1st burst and second and another one and another than yea you will force him to run away for next 10 sec and come back to burst you again dont think about cc him thats impossible and dont think to deal dmg to him as he can spam skills to keep evading but best thing is anet is learning from mistakes = traper dh in his glory perma block and attack in same time in that time there was to play around it ... little but always ( unblock skills ) now we have mirage who can perma evade and attack in same time and there is no counterplay to this mmmm anet knows toxic mechanic is a good mechanic and 10 clones running around and attacking is different story :D / chrono THIS thing is most op the spam of grav wells + enormous burst and even more ways to evade dmg than mirage even more clones ehhh enoughfighting ANY type of mesmer is unpleasant as the clone spam attacks from everywhere and target limit ( yes i catch myself not doing dmg to mesmer cause of too many clones around and limit for target on my weap i dont know its a bug or intentional but thats another great thing about them ) dmg and constant attacks from stealth ... simply mesmer dont give a single kitten atm mesmer mesmer who always was in good spot in pvp and pve with a bit of ups and downs but overall always good spot ( there is thread about mesmer spot in game in last years somewhere i had it bookmarked but lost it ) now is in best spot any class ever was and probly will be thats just simply stupid there are classes like necro / rev who need work on necro is weak since release with ups and downs even some time in meta but most of the times cause of bugs or not intended mechanics and still mesmer got rework and now playign pvp is jsut mesmerfiestamost unpleasant thing to play vs is 2 mesmers and 2 necros as mesmers can deal toooooons of dmg and spam clones ( 2 mesmers can kick out up to 10 clones in times or even more im not sure ) and on top of this pulsing areas from necro you can see nothing only big mess on screen and thats why ppl thinks scourge is so op big pusling circles and bam you are dead than you think that circle killed my but no that was jsut a big red circle corrupting your boons mesmer killed you from stealth

Nerfs for the mesmer are right around the corner, buddy. Hope you're excited as many people are.

Mesmer will be new revenant XD

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