This is the very first living story release I am dissapointed with and this is why [spoilers]

[sorudo.9054]

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:When you come to an MMO get a bossfight win that bossfight and immediatelly after that won bossfight get a cutscene telling you, that you've actually lost that bossfight, would you call that good writing?

better than magically getting in a dragon's head and kill him in there, or killing a dragon by simply bombarding it with cannon fire, now that's bad writing.

I will now in simple words tell you why (at least I) am complaining about this episode - because quality of story delivery suffered greatly just for the sake of pulling the plot twist you enjoy so much, and because of how that "plot twist" played out it will most likely drop even further because one thing is sure - AN won't make kralkatorrik consume "fabric of reality itself" so we have to nullify that threat "fast" (following declarations form ep4). And with ep5 resetting our progression to pre-HOT level while not doing anything setting back kralkatorrik really, means that it is not possible to deal with it "fast" without further shenanigans.

no, it allows for something more then just "kill with fire" where you need to go further then simple stuff, a plot twist is EXACTLY GW2 needed to get out of this lame drag of repeating the same old crap.before S4 everything was like a children's book made for 5 year olds, treating us as if we can't think for ourselves, now we finally have something us adults can get behind.

Now you are entitled to your opinion that everything preceeding this episode was worse than that episode but I would not agree with that in the slightest.(and yeah that comes from the dude who was actually defending consistency of the plotline in season 3...... so go figure)and this comes from the guy that has bin negative about everything GW2 since they changed traits in specializations.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:That's part of problem tho - the way they have set up whole situation Tyria does not have time for "more story to resolve this issue". Considering announcements of AN on LS season 4 and 5, kralks needs to be dealt with in the very next episode, to fit story coherency into scope AN told us they will keep.

Assuming it's a 6-episode season, it makes more sense to kill the big bad in Ep6 than Ep5. If they were heading straight into an expansion, maybe it would be different.

yeah, problem is that they esentially robbed us of all tools to do so, while not adressing overstacked urgency and stakes.

It remains to be seen how they handle Ep6, but they're on track to actually nail the proper structure and pacing of a plot for once.

except for above......

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:When you come to an MMO get a bossfight win that bossfight and immediatelly after that won bossfight get a cutscene telling you, that you've actually lost that bossfight, would you call that good writing?

Ask Thor about how that feels.

Well the difference is that Thor decided to rub the wound instead of going for the kill - that would be an argument if commander decided to give kralk big monologue how perfectly he got played before activating last crystal.....

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:When you come to an MMO get a bossfight win that bossfight and immediatelly after that won bossfight get a cutscene telling you, that you've actually lost that bossfight, would you call that good writing?

better than magically getting in a dragon's head and kill him in there, or killing a dragon by simply bombarding it with cannon fire, now that's bad writing.

destroying mind of mind dragon, while he is preoccupied with large scale assult on his head, is perfectly sound scenario, and a decently designed bossfight that actually ends up rewarding the win of a bossfight as it should.

none of dragons in here were "just bombarded with cannon fire" if you think that's how zhaitan died, you need to replay personal story and pay attention this time around instead of skipping every dialog in it..... (and while mechanically zhaitan's bossfight was weaker executed than kralkatorrik's fight after the bossfight was won, zhaitan died - didn't fall down only to reemerge, wreck everyone and "just leave" with smug smile on his face.

I will now in simple words tell you why (at least I) am complaining about this episode - because quality of story delivery suffered greatly just for the sake of pulling the plot twist you enjoy so much, and because of how that "plot twist" played out it will most likely drop even further because one thing is sure - AN won't make kralkatorrik consume "fabric of reality itself" so we have to nullify that threat "fast" (following declarations form ep4). And with ep5 resetting our progression to pre-HOT level while not doing anything setting back kralkatorrik really, means that it is not possible to deal with it "fast" without further shenanigans.

no, it allows for something more then just "kill with fire" where you need to go further then simple stuff, a plot twist is EXACTLY GW2 needed to get out of this lame drag of repeating the same old kitten.

excuuuse me PoF was all about not just killing it with fire but....

before S4 everything was like a children's book made for 5 year olds, treating us as if we can't think for ourselves, now we finally have something us adults can get behind.

I think we are established in here that you need to skip dialogues less. (also nice assault on maturity you've pulled out in there, because that's always good argument over internet right?)

Now you are entitled to your opinion that everything preceeding this episode was worse than that episode but I would not agree with that in the slightest.(and yeah that comes from the dude who was actually defending consistency of the plotline in season 3...... so go figure)and this comes from the guy that has bin negative about everything GW2 since they changed traits in specializations.

very nice for you to mix around game combat mechanics with story narrative like it was basically same....

[sorudo.9054]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:That's part of problem tho - the way they have set up whole situation Tyria does not have time for "more story to resolve this issue". Considering announcements of AN on LS season 4 and 5, kralks needs to be dealt with in the very next episode, to fit story coherency into scope AN told us they will keep.

Assuming it's a 6-episode season, it makes more sense to kill the big bad in Ep6 than Ep5. If they were heading straight into an expansion, maybe it would be different.

yeah, problem is that they esentially robbed us of all tools to do so, while not adressing overstacked urgency and stakes.

It remains to be seen how they handle Ep6, but they're on track to actually nail the proper structure and pacing of a plot for once.

except for above......

@perilisk.1874 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:When you come to an MMO get a bossfight win that bossfight and immediatelly after that won bossfight get a cutscene telling you, that you've actually lost that bossfight, would you call that good writing?

Ask Thor about how that feels.

Well the difference is that Thor decided to rub the wound instead of going for the kill - that would be an argument if commander decided to give kralk big monologue how perfectly he got played before activating last crystal.....

@sorudo.9054 said:

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:When you come to an MMO get a bossfight win that bossfight and immediatelly after that won bossfight get a cutscene telling you, that you've actually lost that bossfight, would you call that good writing?

better than magically getting in a dragon's head and kill him in there, or killing a dragon by simply bombarding it with cannon fire, now that's bad writing.

destroying mind of mind dragon, while he is preoccupied with large scale assult on his head, is perfectly sound scenario, and a decently designed bossfight that actually ends up rewarding the win of a bossfight as it should.

none of dragons in here were "just bombarded with cannon fire" if you think that's how zhaitan died, you need to replay personal story and pay attention this time around instead of skipping every dialog in it..... (and while mechanically zhaitan's bossfight was weaker executed than kralkatorrik's fight after the bossfight was won, zhaitan died - didn't fall down only to reemerge, wreck everyone and "just leave" with smug smile on his face.

I will now in simple words tell you why (at least I) am complaining about this episode - because quality of story delivery suffered greatly just for the sake of pulling the plot twist you enjoy so much, and because of how that "plot twist" played out it will most likely drop even further because one thing is sure - AN won't make kralkatorrik consume "fabric of reality itself" so we have to nullify that threat "fast" (following declarations form ep4). And with ep5 resetting our progression to pre-HOT level while not doing anything setting back kralkatorrik really, means that it is not possible to deal with it "fast" without further shenanigans.

no, it allows for something more then just "kill with fire" where you need to go further then simple stuff, a plot twist is EXACTLY GW2 needed to get out of this lame drag of repeating the same old kitten.

excuuuse me PoF was all about

not just killing it with fire

but....

before S4 everything was like a children's book made for 5 year olds, treating us as if we can't think for ourselves, now we finally have something us adults can get behind.

I think we are established in here that you need to skip dialogues less. (also nice assault on maturity you've pulled out in there, because that's always good argument over internet right?)

Now you are entitled to your opinion that everything preceeding this episode was worse than that episode but I would not agree with that in the slightest.(and yeah that comes from the dude who was actually defending consistency of the plotline in season 3...... so go figure)and this comes from the guy that has bin negative about everything GW2 since they changed traits in specializations.

very nice for you to mix around game combat mechanics with story narrative like it was basically same....

it seems you love to be right no matter what, even saying i skip dialogs just to "win" an argument.but sure, if you love bad writing and call good quality writing bad that's on you, i see nothing but positive feedback, but i must be skipping that too right....

[perilisk.1874]

@Lord Trejgon.2809 said:yeah, problem is that they esentially robbed us of all tools to do so, while not adressing overstacked urgency and stakes.

You can't possibly know that until you play the next episode. It's true that they haven't left any obvious options open that don't involve killing Kraalkatorik and replacing him with Aurene. That's why you should be hopeful -- it means it's almost certain that we will still end up killing him and replacing him with Aurene. They aren't just making each episode up in a vacuum, Ep5 was written with Ep6 in mind. We can't do that, the big bad killed her? So what, the last big bad killed her champion. Didn't take. Walk it off, Aurene.

Depending on how they bring her back, it could be something they've been setting up for several episodes now, not just pulled out of nowhere. I'm pretty sure it will be.

There's a difference between writers killing a character for shock value, then making something up to bring them back because they realize they've written themselves into a corner; and killing/reviving a character in a planned fashion as part of a narrative and emotional arc.

[Lord Trejgon.2809]

@"sorudo.9054" said:it seems you love to be right no matter what, even saying i skip dialogs just to "win" an argument.but sure, if you love bad writing and call good quality writing bad that's on you, i see nothing but positive feedback, but i must be skipping that too right....

it's simple - if you show that you have no idea about things that story bashed you with for whole 2 chapters of PS then, You either skipped all dialogues and then decided story was badly written because you didn't like final instance, or are blatantly just ignoring those chapters just for the sake of hating on older storylines.

Now if you want to actually make claim how earlier writing was bad and new one is good, try instead of taking out last instance of the story out of it's context and saying it's bad, and instead of throwing of big statements like "finally story for adults to enjoy", well actually make an argument based on what is in that story for a change.

also I'm not sure where you looking at if you only see positive feedbacks >.>

@perilisk.1874 said:

@"Lord Trejgon.2809" said:yeah, problem is that they esentially robbed us of all tools to do so, while not adressing overstacked urgency and stakes.

You can't possibly know that until you play the next episode. It's true that they haven't left any obvious options open that don't involve killing Kraalkatorik and replacing him with Aurene. That's why you should be hopeful -- it means it's almost certain that we will still end up killing him and replacing him with Aurene. They aren't just making each episode up in a vacuum, Ep5 was written with Ep6 in mind. We can't do that, the big bad killed her? So what, the last big bad killed her champion. Didn't take. Walk it off, Aurene.

No, it doesn't work this way - it was established voer long course of time that we can't just kill off another elder dragon and need suitable candidate for replacement, otherwise magical ecosystem of tyrie will go fubar.

It was also fairly established in before-hand that each dragon has unique set of vulnerabilities, so we need special tools to even "just kill off" kralkatorrik.

Now after PoF we had exacly one suitable candidate for replacement, and we had no tools to do the killing. Ep 4 has ramped up urgency and stakes to insane levels, and ep5 have given tools, and then taken them away - alongside with only suitable replacements, while still not adressing urgency and stakes on it's own.

And frankly every single optymistic view of all possible outcomes I have seen so far just assumes that for some totally not explained issues kralk will not just go back to chewing on fabric of reality (a.k.a. assuming plothole)

Depending on how they bring her back, it could be something they've been setting up for several episodes now, not just pulled out of nowhere. I'm pretty sure it will be.

There's a difference between writers killing a character for shock value, then making something up to bring them back because they realize they've written themselves into a corner; and killing/reviving a character in a planned fashion as part of a narrative and emotional arc.

Problem is that the way it's written there they are writing themselves into a corner where they l quite virtually cannot keep her dead for too long, without resorting to deus ex machina, or major plotholes, which makes - for anyone paying attention - whole thing being slapped on just for the sake of having that "drama" there - or shitty writing - and as I mentioned way before - I am unsure which variant of these two is worse.