Im not playing GW2 till necro is fun to play in PVE again

[Anchoku.8142]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The OP's last three threads on the same topic were better:

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/48703/can-we-show-necromancers-some-love

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/54838/so-how-long-will-i-not-be-able-to-play-my-main-in-gw2

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/60059/been-6-months-and-still-waiting-for-some-decent-condi-reaper-necro-buffs

Can't say he wasn't warned. This thread has some good discussion in it once you get past the rehash. I completely agree with the problem that Necro has that limits it with a 2nd health bar. Scourge moves away from that fortunately.

We all have practice at subverting hyperbole into a more productive discussion.

@Dace.8173I think a core issue with Necro is its selfishness. Low group buff capability is holding it back more than dps and imbalances the profession between PvP and PvE.

The point is that those discussions already happened ... three times. Somehow the OP thinks the result will be different. Frankly, i don't understand why we don't just necro the old threads. It's already covered.

I have some confidence that as Anet rolls out this new boon sharing scheme, the class will be less selfish. On the flip side, I don't think that will address the OP's problems with it, nor will it address Necro not being meta.

The point is: We may not like it, but when it comes to viability, scourge and reaper can raid.

Scourge is viable as support, so not much more can be said about that. It has been argued over and over, but raidar shows a graph.

I am not arguing raids cannot be done, im just hoping for quality of life improvements.

Any profession can raid. Most arguments, uninformed as they might be, come down to wanting key boons or peak dps. I am fine with lower dps if Necro can hand out more boon candy. Transfusion and Scourge represent keystones in Arenanet's change of thinking. I expect more of that.

[Dace.8173]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

We all have practice at subverting hyperbole into a more productive discussion.

@Dace.8173I think a core issue with Necro is its selfishness. Low group buff capability is holding it back more than dps and imbalances the profession between PvP and PvE.

To an extent yes. I don't think the Necromancer was ever thought of as a buffing kind of thing. It's clear that they set out to make it a debuffer. That can work in PvE. The inherent problem is that there aren't enough buffing going on for AIs in order to make that work. This is what creates the imbalance between PvP/WvW and PvE. If the debuffing that Necromancer did still worked even when there were no buffs to strip away it would be in a better place.

@Obtena.7952 said:What I think is important is that IF there is a theme with all the threads from the OP, it's that no one should be married to anything they like if they desire performance above all. If you like condi necro, then play it and enjoy it as it is. If you want performance at the highest levels of whatever style of play you want, that player better join the FOTM club. Now we have four threads that have that message.

Yeah, being a faction loyalist, in any game really, is a tough thing to do. You pretty much tie your enjoyment and fun to something that is very malleable. If you are a faction loyalist and you enjoy the act of just playing that faction then things are relatively ok. If you are a faction loyalist but also want to always be playing the best then you clearly are never going to have much fun unless the faction you pick happens to just be broken. The way the OP chooses to frame his fun means that he will likely never enjoy this game. It is unlikely that Necromancer will ever be what he wants it to be. Necromancer can be fun, and a lot of folks enjoy it. However, those folks don't tie their fun to artificial measures like the amount of DPS Necromancer can put out. The OP has proven, through the many threads you've highlighted, that he ignores the strengths (and ignores the logic of why some of the changes that he feels makes it less fun were necessary, re- Epi) of what Necromancer can do in favor of a very narrow definition of fun. The fact that we are able to still have very productive conversations is amazing.

Though, I've never seen the point to trouncing threads. It's not like ANet is going to open this thread, realize that this dude is leaving the game, and then suddenly scramble to make the game fun for him. ANet has shown that they are aware of a problem with Necromancer. They have also shown that they are trying to make attempts to fix Necromancer. Scourge is proof that they are willing to tinker with the mechanics that have held Necromancer back in PvE in an attempt to get Necromancer someplace better in PvE end game content. Thus, I don't get why folks make a big production over the fact that they aren't going to play this game anymore. I would imagine there are better things one could do with their time than announcing again and again that they are leaving the game until things change in a way that they approve.

@Anchoku.8142 said:

Any profession can raid. Most arguments, uninformed as they might be, come down to wanting key boons or peak dps. I am fine with lower dps if Necro can hand out more boon candy. Transfusion and Scourge represent keystones in Arenanet's change of thinking. I expect more of that.

I'm not sure Necromancer will ever hand out a lot of boons. It's not the identity they've given the profession. I think they will continue to tinker with the Shroud mechanic. However, I don't think it will ever be a heavy boon sharer. What I expect them to do is find ways to make boon corruption and conditions for Necromancer matter more. So as an example, when they made changes to some of Necromancer's abilities by taking away crit chance and upping the base damage. They were clearly trying to make the conditions inflicted by those abilities matter more by removing random chance in regards to their strength and instead streamlining their strength by just upping the base damage. I suspect we will see more of that, the conditions that Necromancer inflicts having a stronger impact.

[Anchoku.8142]

@"Dace.8173" said:I'm not sure Necromancer will ever hand out a lot of boons. It's not the identity they've given the profession. I think they will continue to tinker with the Shroud mechanic. However, I don't think it will ever be a heavy boon sharer. What I expect them to do is find ways to make boon corruption and conditions for Necromancer matter more.

Necromancer was originally designed as a debuffing profession and, even after the nerfs before release, Arenanet quickly discovered that soft CC and control effects were far too powerful against boss mobs so Unshakable / Defiance was created.

Unshakable / Defiance hard-nerfed Necromancer and build variety from many, if not all, other professions. It left a huge balance problem between game modes that the much later break bar mechanic could not truly fix. Necromancer, however, was already "done-done." Its design theme and core mechanics like shroud and a dependency on soft CC were fully baked.

The good news is Necro began to break from its 100% debuffer design with the big Blood Magic rework, then received power-cleave with Reaper, and then a shroud-sharing option with Scourge.

Necro has been slowly (slowly!) moving away from the original selfish-debuffer design Arenanet spent years stubbornly pushing as its "theme" toward a more multi-purpose profession because Unshakable is not going away.

[Dace.8173]

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@"Dace.8173" said:I'm not sure Necromancer will ever hand out a lot of boons. It's not the identity they've given the profession. I think they will continue to tinker with the Shroud mechanic. However, I don't think it will ever be a heavy boon sharer. What I expect them to do is find ways to make boon corruption and conditions for Necromancer matter more.

Necromancer was originally designed as a debuffing profession and, even after the nerfs before release, Arenanet quickly discovered that soft CC and control effects were far too powerful against boss mobs so Unshakable / Defiance was created.

Unshakable / Defiance hard-nerfed Necromancer and build variety from many, if not all, other professions. It left a huge balance problem between game modes that the much later break bar mechanic could not truly fix. Necromancer, however, was already "done-done." Its design theme and core mechanics like shroud and a dependency on soft CC were fully baked.

The good news is Necro began to break from its 100% debuffer design with the big Blood Magic rework, then received power-cleave with Reaper, and then a shroud-sharing option with Scourge.

Necro has been slowly (slowly!) moving away from the original selfish-debuffer design Arenanet spent years stubbornly pushing as its "theme" toward a more multi-purpose profession because Unshakable is not going away.

I still don't see them turning Necromancer into a boon sharer. They may share some boons but I don't think it will become an identity like it is for Guardian, Revenant, and Mesmer. I don't see ANet wanting a single profession being able to both remove or otherwise be able to corrupt boons but also being able to stack and spread lots of boons. Being both a buffer and a debuffer is a fairly strong thing and I just do not see ANet going down that path. On the off chance that they do I don't see Necromancer benefiting all that much. Instead, I would suspect they would be weaker for it in order to balance the two states.

They may move Necromancer away from being a 100% debuffer but I don't see them replacing that with heavy buffing capabilities. Maybe one or two buffs, like how Scourge grants you Might and barriers but not something in line with say Mesmer/Guardian/Revenant in which it has a strong boon sharing identity with the capability of spamming lots of different boons.

[Axl.8924]

@Dace.8173 said:

@Anchoku.8142 said:

@Dace.8173 said:I'm not sure Necromancer will ever hand out a lot of boons. It's not the identity they've given the profession. I think they will continue to tinker with the Shroud mechanic. However, I don't think it will ever be a heavy boon sharer. What I expect them to do is find ways to make boon corruption and conditions for Necromancer matter more.

Necromancer was originally designed as a debuffing profession and, even after the nerfs before release, Arenanet quickly discovered that soft CC and control effects were far too powerful against boss mobs so Unshakable / Defiance was created.

Unshakable / Defiance hard-nerfed Necromancer and build variety from many, if not all, other professions. It left a huge balance problem between game modes that the much later break bar mechanic could not truly fix. Necromancer, however, was already "done-done." Its design theme and core mechanics like shroud and a dependency on soft CC were fully baked.

The good news is Necro began to break from its 100% debuffer design with the big Blood Magic rework, then received power-cleave with Reaper, and then a shroud-sharing option with Scourge.

Necro has been slowly (slowly!) moving away from the original selfish-debuffer design Arenanet spent years stubbornly pushing as its "theme" toward a more multi-purpose profession because Unshakable is not going away.

I still don't see them turning Necromancer into a boon sharer. They may share some boons but I don't think it will become an identity like it is for Guardian, Revenant, and Mesmer. I don't see ANet wanting a single profession being able to both remove or otherwise be able to corrupt boons but also being able to stack and spread lots of boons. Being both a buffer and a debuffer is a fairly strong thing and I just do not see ANet going down that path. On the off chance that they do I don't see Necromancer benefiting all that much. Instead, I would suspect they would be weaker for it in order to balance the two states.

They may move Necromancer away from being a 100% debuffer but I don't see them replacing that with heavy buffing capabilities. Maybe one or two buffs, like how Scourge grants you Might and barriers but not something in line with say Mesmer/Guardian/Revenant in which it has a strong boon sharing identity with the capability of spamming lots of different boons.

In my opinion, debuffing is already too strong a role for necro. A lot of necros would be happy if the debuffs could actually work in more open pve areas other than fractals, such as raid environments. It would certainly fix a lot of issues.