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Are there more guardian healers or more power supports renevants needed for fractals?

Rico.6873

By Rico.6873
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Asum.4960

Asum.4960

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to pug CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

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ButcherofMalakir.4067

ButcherofMalakir.4067

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

If you are saying that your parties need heal firebrand to survive then i cannot imagine how you could clear fractals with druid that can heal only after certain interval. In firebrand/renegade comp (both options) firebrand is there to provide fury, aegis, some might and retaliation. If stability is needed (right now i cannot remember a mechanic where aegis doesnt work but stability does) then dps firebrand can exchange one skill to get it. All of those boons are provided by dps firebrand anyway without any special effort.Your idea simply gives healing to firebrand from renegade. You lose all the reactive options that renegade have. You basicaly drop one of the best healers for another (maybe even stronger) full healer and on top of that you have 386 hp PER HIT for half of the fight duration. I am not sure but i think full harrier druid will not heal as much as diviners renegade summit in the whole fight yet it was possible to clear fractals with druid for soo long.

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Asum.4960

Asum.4960

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

If you are saying that your parties need heal firebrand to survive then i cannot imagine how you could clear fractals with druid that can heal only after certain interval. In firebrand/renegade comp (both options) firebrand is there to provide fury, aegis, some might and retaliation. If stability is needed (right now i cannot remember a mechanic where aegis doesnt work but stability does) then dps firebrand can exchange one skill to get it. All of those boons are provided by dps firebrand anyway without any special effort.Your idea simply gives healing to firebrand from renegade. You lose all the reactive options that renegade have. You basicaly drop one of the best healers for another (maybe even stronger) full healer and on top of that you have 386 hp PER HIT for half of the fight duration. I am not sure but i think full harrier druid will not heal as much as diviners renegade summit in the whole fight yet it was possible to clear fractals with druid for soo long.

Okay, again. It's not about need, it's about wanting consistency and ease of play, as long as it isn't to a severe detriment to clear time.I have done multiple no heal runs, with both FB and Ren running the hybrid DPS build just fine. With the right pugs, I don't need a heal at all.But it's a lot more effort to play with that comp, it's not consistently good to run with pugs of which I do not know the skill level, and I don't want to be ridiculous and sit around in LFG asking for 400+ KP, just to be done 10 minutes faster with Fractals, if everything goes smoothly.

The choice of should the FB or Renegade heal is a similar one, where I personally prefer consistency and gameplay experience of having the FB heal, rather than the Renegade.One is marginally faster, the other one substantially more relaxed.

There is no need for either of them.

At this point you are arguing against personal preference from experience, and I'm not quite sure to what end.All I'm saying is, non of these comps is universally the best, unless clear time differences of 1-10 minutes is all you care about.It's just about what you want out of that time.

If you want a really fast and efficient clear with good players, no heal is the way to go, if you are fine with being a bit slower but having a much more relaxed time, Firebrand heal is the way to go, if you want something in between, Renegade heal is the way to go.

I'm not going to tell anyone that they are wrong with any of these choices.

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ButcherofMalakir.4067

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

If you are saying that your parties need heal firebrand to survive then i cannot imagine how you could clear fractals with druid that can heal only after certain interval. In firebrand/renegade comp (both options) firebrand is there to provide fury, aegis, some might and retaliation. If stability is needed (right now i cannot remember a mechanic where aegis doesnt work but stability does) then dps firebrand can exchange one skill to get it. All of those boons are provided by dps firebrand anyway without any special effort.Your idea simply gives healing to firebrand from renegade. You lose all the reactive options that renegade have. You basicaly drop one of the best healers for another (maybe even stronger) full healer and on top of that you have 386 hp PER HIT for half of the fight duration. I am not sure but i think full harrier druid will not heal as much as diviners renegade summit in the whole fight yet it was possible to clear fractals with druid for soo long.

Okay, again. It's not about need, it's about wanting consistency and ease of play, as long as it isn't to a severe detriment to clear time.I have done multiple no heal runs, with both FB and Ren running the hybrid DPS build just fine. With the right pugs, I don't need a heal at all.But it's a lot more effort to play with that comp, it's not consistently good to run with pugs of which I do not know the skill level, and I don't want to be ridiculous and sit around in LFG asking for 400+ KP, just to be done 10 minutes faster with Fractals, if everything goes smoothly.

The choice of should the FB or Renegade heal is a similar one, where I personally prefer consistency and gameplay experience of having the FB heal, rather than the Renegade.One is marginally faster, the other one substantially more relaxed.

There is no need for either of them.

At this point you are arguing against personal preference from experience, and I'm not quite sure to what end.All I'm saying is, non of these comps is universally the best, unless clear time differences of 1-10 minutes is all you care about.It's just about what you want out of that time.

If you want a really fast and efficient clear with good players, no heal is the way to go, if you are fine with being a bit slower but having a much more relaxed time, Firebrand heal is the way to go, if you want something in between, Renegade heal is the way to go.

I'm not going to tell anyone that they are wrong with any of these choices.

Well, i guess it is the diference in philosophies. You say that heal FB is your go to choice because if you find bad players you can still clear almost as easily. I am saying that if I ever meet a player that is so bad that I need to play heal firebrand just to compensate for his lack of skill i will just leave the party. It is true that I will be waiting longer in LFG but I can do something in the meantime instead of suffering for way to long in fractals.

Edit: and I personaly dont like relaxed runs. Relaxed runs are (in my understanding) runs where you dont need to focus on 100 percent, where every mistake count. If run is relaxed and I can do it without focusing 100 percent of a time than it is no better then running around map and harvesting materials. In your composition mistakes dont matter which is why it is boring. I am not saying that heal renegade does not overheal in good party but it is much better in perfect party then heal firebrand but worse if you mess up or your party is bad.

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Asum.4960

Asum.4960

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@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

@Asum.4960 said:As DPS/Quickbrand/Support FB player, I would love to see more Diviner Renegades.Harrier Renegade + Quickbrand looks good on paper, but Harrier Firebrand + Diviner Renegade is much smoother and usually faster in my experience.

Support FB carries much harder, especially through the new instabilities, while with Heal Renegade, I barely notice a difference to running no heal at all, due to the lower DPS needed to phase quickly enough, while not providing enough support offset that.Not sure why people are so keen on support Renegade + Quickbrand, just because it's a bit higher group DPS on paper, while not translating into practice at all, unless you got really good players, at which point you might as well run no heal.

Chrono + Druid is worse in every single way, except for skips in some Fractals, where nothing can compete with Chrono (but even then I would run Chrono + Support FB over Druid).

In summary,
Harrier Renegade and Quickbrand
(Power FB) are usually what is wanted by pugs, as they tend to use comps which they are told are more DPS on paper, even if they can't translate that into gameplay. Shines in proficient statics.
Diviner Renegade and Heal FB
is smoother and therefore usually faster, especially for pugs, but not as popular. Shines in pugs and for rough instabilities.
Diviner Renegade + power FB
(no heal comp) is incredible fast, but requires very good players, and even in 250+KP pug groups is rarely run since the new Instabilities were introduced.
Chrono + Druid
if you enjoy pain, most frequent in non CM groups.
Chrono + sup FB
is technically great for Fractals with skips, but suffers from low DPS and CC when compared to FB + Ren for everything else, while having some redundancy in terms of support.

Main reason why healer ren is better then healer fb is burst. Power renegade has 0 burst so especialy in fractals power fb is better. Also i dont understand how can heal fb make runs smoother when only diference is healing and it takes great skill to die with renegade healer.It is true that for bad groups renegade healer heals nothing since group need to stack and actualy atack the boss to get those heals but bad groups might not get healed by fb either. Also bad groups are mostly non cm and in non cm fractals chrono is still better thanks to skips, pulls and shorter phases.

CM maybe different because you need dps but for the rest I definitely I choose FB heal reason its not so much about heal but you have : stabi , resistance, retaliation , protection, aegis also might and fury and on the healing side you can switch in condi cleanse instead of more stabi and the shield 5 is a good cc.

The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

Whats then about the old content/ older fractals and instabilities ? The same was Arena.NET always do cheesed old content

You are wrongly asuming that power firebrand cannot provide boons. No reason to swap gear when you have stability, retaliation, might, fury aegis from dps firebrand and proection from heal renegade. Renegade can easily clense conditions. Firebrand can still clense conditions using F2 and it is true that you lose cc on shield but renegade can use stafff 5 more freely because he will not lose 10k+ damage while doing so.I have done sirens reef with heal renegade and full dps firebrand and we had no problems. Sometimes I didnt have to use half of energy on heal spells just because everyone was full all the time.I have done sirens reef as a chrono with druid healer and we had no problems (even when druid heals much less then renegade). So I cannot Imagine fractal where renegade healer isnt better then firebrand.

Point is, if you focus so much on providing that support on a Quickbrand (running Axe, spending more time in Tomes, taking non dps utility skills, potentially running full Diviners etc.), your DPS almost suffers to a point of a Diviner Renegade, at which point you might as well take that with a heal FB instead, and get those boons much more consistent (especially Stab and Aegis), as well as better access to other utility, more consistent healing, Might for splits etc.

Also just because you (or me for that matter) won't struggle at all with a heal Ren or even Druid in situations like Siren's Reef with nasty instabilities, doesn't mean others don't. That comes mostly down to our groups consisting of 250KP+ Fractal Gods with meta food providing enough DPS to quickly skip by the most dangerous mechanics instead of having to endure them for quite some time (speaking for myself, I imagine your situation is similar).

I'm not trying to tell you that support FB is better in that case. It's not. It's just much more relaxed while barely losing any speed in terms of clear times for good groups, while for less proficient groups, it can make a massive difference, turning a frustrating experience of wiping with not so good players, into a smooth clear like nothing else can.

It's just personal preference at that point.If I want to
pug
CM's+T4+Rec smoothly in under an hour, sup FB is the most consistent choice to do so, imo.

/E:To elaborate on where I'm coming from with this opinion,I had multiple (high KP) groups already insist on running Heal Ren + Quickbrand, scoffing at Heal FB, where I ended up frantically having to try to keep the party alive with Resolve and Aegising and reflecting every mechanic I could (while still out dpsing a DPS), with the group still wiping multiple times, wasting much time, before heeding my suggestion to try switching the comp to heal FB + Alacrigade, after which it was smooth sailing.Not to say that comp is worse, it's not when in good hands, I just prefer not to waste that time any more gambling on my pugs.

If you are saying that your parties need heal firebrand to survive then i cannot imagine how you could clear fractals with druid that can heal only after certain interval. In firebrand/renegade comp (both options) firebrand is there to provide fury, aegis, some might and retaliation. If stability is needed (right now i cannot remember a mechanic where aegis doesnt work but stability does) then dps firebrand can exchange one skill to get it. All of those boons are provided by dps firebrand anyway without any special effort.Your idea simply gives healing to firebrand from renegade. You lose all the reactive options that renegade have. You basicaly drop one of the best healers for another (maybe even stronger) full healer and on top of that you have 386 hp PER HIT for half of the fight duration. I am not sure but i think full harrier druid will not heal as much as diviners renegade summit in the whole fight yet it was possible to clear fractals with druid for soo long.

Okay, again. It's not about need, it's about wanting consistency and ease of play, as long as it isn't to a severe detriment to clear time.I have done multiple no heal runs, with both FB and Ren running the hybrid DPS build just fine. With the right pugs, I don't need a heal at all.But it's a lot more effort to play with that comp, it's not consistently good to run with pugs of which I do not know the skill level, and I don't want to be ridiculous and sit around in LFG asking for 400+ KP, just to be done 10 minutes faster with Fractals, if everything goes smoothly.

The choice of should the FB or Renegade heal is a similar one, where I personally prefer consistency and gameplay experience of having the FB heal, rather than the Renegade.One is marginally faster, the other one substantially more relaxed.

There is no need for either of them.

At this point you are arguing against personal preference from experience, and I'm not quite sure to what end.All I'm saying is, non of these comps is universally the best, unless clear time differences of 1-10 minutes is all you care about.It's just about what you want out of that time.

If you want a really fast and efficient clear with good players, no heal is the way to go, if you are fine with being a bit slower but having a much more relaxed time, Firebrand heal is the way to go, if you want something in between, Renegade heal is the way to go.

I'm not going to tell anyone that they are wrong with any of these choices.

Well, i guess it is the diference in philosophies. You say that heal FB is your go to choice because if you find bad players you can still clear almost as easily. I am saying that if I ever meet a player that is so bad that I need to play heal firebrand just to compensate for his lack of skill i will just leave the party. It is true that I will be waiting longer in LFG but I can do something in the meantime instead of suffering for way to long in fractals.

Edit: and I personaly dont like relaxed runs. Relaxed runs are (in my understanding) runs where you dont need to focus on 100 percent, where every mistake count. If run is relaxed and I can do it without focusing 100 percent of a time than it is no better then running around map and harvesting materials. In your composition mistakes dont matter which is why it is boring. I am not saying that heal renegade does not overheal in good party but it is much better in perfect party then heal firebrand but worse if you mess up or your party is bad.

Yea, that's what I mean with it being down to preference.I do enjoy a good tryhard no heal speed run every now and then, but for daily clears, that's just too much effort for me personally a lot of times. Plus there tends to be a lot more toxicity around those groups.So if I want to have a "relaxed" sub 1h CM's+T4+Recs run with a healer, it might as well be support FB easy mode, if there's a bad pug or two, or not.It's still a lot more engaging to me than as you say, gathering in the open world, but without every mistake someone makes leading to a gg and an outburst of rage from someone.So I prefer to play the more risky comps with players I know, while essentially guaranteeing smooth pug runs with sup FB.

I also understand the players who want to push themselves every single day, trying to be as fast as possible with different foods and slayer sigils for every Fractal, consumables for CC, novelties for movement, and the highest speed comps.But that's just not my speed usually.

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Lord of the Fire.6870

Lord of the Fire.6870

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@lare.5129 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

8k? This is good result, real good. Be ready for members whit 3 - 5 k dps. In a comment about dps thay have answer what they don't use any dps meters because still dont' have official meters from arenanet

sry this is their life not their dps ^^

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Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

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@lare.5129 said:

@ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:The question then is for what is this necessarily? Basically for Siren Reef and some of the newer nasty instability combinations when you frailty you have some players who have 8k!! life with heal alone you don't come very far.

8k? This is good result, real good. Be ready for members whit 3 - 5 k dps. In a comment about dps thay have answer what they don't use any dps meters because still dont' have official meters from arenanet

8k life is the hit point pool of a low hit point class (guardian, elementalist, thief) without any vitality gear and under the effect of the Fraility instability (Players are smaller and have 30% less health, but move 25% faster.). As such most attacks even without damage increasing instabilities will result in 1 or 2 hit downstate which makes healing outside of barrier a lot less useful.

This has nothing to do with dps.

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EnidLarr.1478

EnidLarr.1478

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No need to argue, I originally played commander chrono, and for DPS I mainly go with power spellbreaker, then 2nd support I have harrier druid, and then viper firebrand, power daredevil, and power reaper. Until they nerfed support chrono to ground, I converted all my viper firebrand to harrier firebrand. And now, I kept on playing my HAMQB (Heal/Aegis/Might/Quickness Firebrand) more than everything else unless we want speed clear so I hop on my spellbreaker. I won’t compare Harrierbrand and Harriergade because it really depends on how well the player is on his/her role.

I stay neutral on it while I now play 7 classes in fractals all geared up (chrono/spellbreaker/firebrand/renegade/daredevil/druid/reaper)

I just wanna share my experiences as playing a HAMQB and why I kept on playingCurrently I only have problem with one level of fractals, which is the Siren Reef, I cannot carry it myself without a scourge (viper w/ epi)

2ndly Deepstone during Slippery Slopes (hard to shareboons especially aegis)

Besides these two with slippery slopes, I can carry all fractals

Why I like playing healerbrand --- (HAMQB)

H – Heals – Staff (#2 and #4) heal and regen, Mace (#1 <3rd hit heals>, and #2 does regen), and shield #5(2nd hit), then “Hold the Line” regen, and remember all aegis given out heals 1.15k, and then F2’s 5,4,1,1,1 and this 54111 can heal the group in full, and 3 of F3 gives a big heal too, also the trait makes it offer very high regen rate. SC suggested Merciful Intervention, a burst heal, but I use “retreat” for aegis (1.15k heal and block) instead because 1 less hit taken from boss or anything means more than just a heal, also 24 seconds cooldown vs 40

A – Aegis – Shield #4, mantra healing skill, retreat, and F3’s #2 and #5, if more insurance needed, I use the renewal tome elite skills to recharge tomes, and I have 8 charges per tome, so with recharges included, and elite recharge skill, I can give 8 aegis on F3’s skills, then 3 aegis on healing mantra, an aegis from retreat, and then shield #4, and use the recharge, I give another 8x aegis from F3, also the normal recharged skills, another retreat, 2 more healing mentras or more, and shielf4 so I give like 25 aegis, don’t forget the aegis not just blocking, each heals 1.15k HP too.

M – Might – Staff #4, Mentra of Potence 3 charges, these 2 skills can quickly make you 24 mights, at mislock you can 25 might too, and MoP gives 20 seconds quickness

Q – Quickness – Mentra of Potence 20 seconds, and elite’s “Feel My Wrath” 16 seconds so it can go constant quickness unless the mentioned insurance is needed.

Conclusion: I got used to it, so basically I am good with it, but I believe the pro ones with healer revenant or any other healers can do better than myself! I found for defensive play it’s the best to do with HAMQB + Viper Scourge + (Alacrigade or Chrono) + Bannnerbreaker + another DPS.

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Zhaid Zhem.6508

Zhaid Zhem.6508

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Siren's reef is really not that hard with FB; take virtues, take renewed focus; spam F3#3 and #5, wall of reflection; GJ everyone is alive. If really your group have trouble, it's not your fault, they should cleave trashmobs too.Ren can do it too with ventari, but the anti-proj is very high ernergy.

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Asum.4960

Asum.4960

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@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:Siren's reef is really not that hard with FB; take virtues, take renewed focus; spam F3#3 and #5, wall of reflection; GJ everyone is alive. If really your group have trouble, it's not your fault, they should cleave trashmobs too.Ren can do it too with ventari, but the anti-proj is very high ernergy.

Agree with Virtues and WoR for Siren's Reef, although I still prefer Stab Mantra to counter some of the dazes etc. Traited WoR and Tome Bubble are already enough for perma projectile destruction (or very little downtimes that can be burst healed) if timed correctly.

@EnidLarr.1478

One skill I never see mentioned though is Bow of Truth, which is pretty much a mainstay on my bar as support FB, just because of how hard it carries no matter the situation. Doesn't matter if you are in the Bomb at Artsariiv, you can cast it on the group from range, or want to outheal stuff like Siren's Reef, or even allow to just stand in Siax Poison when DPS is low, especially if combined with the 33% Healing modifier from Resolve tome plus Tome 4, essentially nothing can kill you.

In turn I don't take Pure of Heart for heal on Aegis, but instead either Empowering Might when running Radiance, or Honorable Staff when running Virtues, for more solid Might and or heals (although, if you have really good Might uptime, even in splits, already, Pure of Heart is obviously a great choice to carry even harder), as well as running Axe over Mace for Fury.

There are only extremely rare circumstances where I would recommend Merciful Intervention over Bow of Truth in PvE, and it's infinitely more value than something like Retreat.Feel my Wrath is not needed at all with 100% Boon duration (or close to that) to keep up Quickness. Stab Mantra makes Fractals a lot more enjoyable to play, as well as increasing dps uptime.

For healing, I would also like to mention the Heal on Dodge minor (Selfless Daring), which especially with the increased Endurance Regen from the Fractal Potion as well as Purity of Body is not to be underestimated. Just got to make sure you don't double dodge to heal shortly before a mechanic you have to dodge.

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EnidLarr.1478

EnidLarr.1478

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@Asum.4960 said:

@Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:Siren's reef is really not that hard with FB; take virtues, take renewed focus; spam F3#3 and #5, wall of reflection; GJ everyone is alive. If really your group have trouble, it's not your fault, they should cleave trashmobs too.Ren can do it too with ventari, but the anti-proj is very high ernergy.

For healing, I would also like to mention the Heal on Dodge minor (Selfless Daring), which especially with the increased Endurance Regen from the Fractal Potion as well as Purity of Body is not to be underestimated. Just got to make sure you don't double dodge to heal shortly before a mechanic you have to dodge.

Zhaid thx, and Asum lol i sometimes forgot that rolling heal too. and yeah out of rolling when needed lol

My build was based on Pugs, can allow lots of mistakes in the group

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