xp eke xp.6724 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Mhh well i would not play core guard.... Not cause it's also less effective, but mainly cause as fb you could support your necro better and as dh i would punish the mesmer better + my warrior and engie would deal more dmg thanks to my carves. Btw if you heal yourself 210k and also died 5times it means you ate at that match over 100k by bad positioning.Basically on a teamcomb like that:you would heal at a full timed match ~300k,deal ~250k dmg cause you burst after your mate lowed someone in your range or save your necro (means yes you did more dmg but it was completely neutralised, so you got nothing for the team)and also get more defense points cause the ranger or warrior would win close/far faster by your roams... They had 2 dmg dealer, only one is mobile, + a lot of aoe dmg on teamfights,So if you counterpressure theyr guard/mes your necro would survive longer and he could deal more dmg. This would make it automatically easyer for your ranger or warrior to roam cause you survive the teamfights long enough to outsplitt them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @"mortrialus.3062" said:Nobody only play 1 single profession, and if happens it's your problem.It doesn't matter how many builds you have under your belt in a system where you are locked to the class you queued on. Which is kind of the point.Ok I have to give you a real example, because you seem quite a bit slow on understanding.You queue as Spellbreaker, Your team is made by:1: Firebrand2: Support Tempest3: Revenant4: Mirage5: Spellbreaker (You)The game started because there are 5 all different profession specializations.Now the tempest can switch to Reaper, Thief, to Chrono, to Core Guardian, to Ranger, to "anything he wants to", but he CANNOT switch to another Mirage or another Spellbreaker BECAUSE THERE IS ALREADY 1.Is it clear now?Nobody said you are locked to the class you queued on, it's not that hard to understand.This way no more double scrapper, no more double thief, no more double anything.Definitely 1 scrapper is way more easy to handle than having 2 or 3 in the same team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @whoknocks.4935 said:@"mortrialus.3062" said:Nobody only play 1 single profession, and if happens it's your problem.It doesn't matter how many builds you have under your belt in a system where you are locked to the class you queued on. Which is kind of the point.Ok I have to give you a real example, because you seem quite a bit slow on understanding.You queue as Spellbreaker, Your team is made by:1: Firebrand2: Support Tempest3: Revenant4: Mirage5: Spellbreaker (You)The game started because there are 5 all different profession specializations.Now the tempest can switch to Reaper, Thief, to Chrono, to Core Guardian, to Ranger, to "anything he wants to", but he CANNOT switch to another Mirage or another Spellbreaker BECAUSE THERE IS ALREADY 1.Is it clear now?Nobody said you are locked to the class you queued on, it's not that hard to understand.This way no more double scrapper, no more double thief, no more double anything.Definitely 1 scrapper is way more easy to handle than having 2 or 3 in the same team.Again, if 30-40% of the game's community is queueing on scrappers, the population of the matches has to be 30-40% scrappers. You can't have a match maker that has higher priority than matching people of similar rating. It struggles enough with that as is. People always talk "Oh this will kill PvP for good if this happens or doesn't get fixed!" but an actual real surefire way to actually kill PvP is to subject players to 30-40 minute long queues per match because they're queueing on a very popular build and the matchmaker has a hard hard limit on of only one per team so once the matchmaker puts on scrapper on a team it puts them on the sidelines until the next team gets put together, or the team after that, or the team after that. Or even worse, have the match maker completely give up on matching similarly skilled players so you're getting top 10 former professionals literally playing against bronze league players.The answer is fix what is causing scrappers to make up 30-40% of the queueing population, not rewrite the match maker into an awful unwieldy mess that is either as slow as molasses or literally matching bronzes with legendary tier players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknocks.4935 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @mortrialus.3062 said:@whoknocks.4935 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:Nobody only play 1 single profession, and if happens it's your problem.It doesn't matter how many builds you have under your belt in a system where you are locked to the class you queued on. Which is kind of the point.Ok I have to give you a real example, because you seem quite a bit slow on understanding.You queue as Spellbreaker, Your team is made by:1: Firebrand2: Support Tempest3: Revenant4: Mirage5: Spellbreaker (You)The game started because there are 5 all different profession specializations.Now the tempest can switch to Reaper, Thief, to Chrono, to Core Guardian, to Ranger, to "anything he wants to", but he CANNOT switch to another Mirage or another Spellbreaker BECAUSE THERE IS ALREADY 1.Is it clear now?Nobody said you are locked to the class you queued on, it's not that hard to understand.This way no more double scrapper, no more double thief, no more double anything.Definitely 1 scrapper is way more easy to handle than having 2 or 3 in the same team.Again, if 30-40% of the game's community is queueing on scrappers, the population of the matches has to be 30-40% scrappers. You can't have a match maker that has higher priority than matching people of similar rating. It struggles enough with that as is. People always talk "Oh this will kill PvP for good if this happens or doesn't get fixed!" but an actual real surefire way to actually kill PvP is to subject players to 30-40 minute long queues per match because they're queueing on a very popular build and the matchmaker has a hard hard limit on of only one per team so once the matchmaker puts on scrapper on a team it puts them on the sidelines until the next team gets put together, or the team after that, or the team after that. Or even worse, have the match maker completely give up on matching similarly skilled players so you're getting top 10 former professionals literally playing against bronze league players.The answer is fix what is causing scrappers to make up 30-40% of the queueing population, not rewrite the match maker into an awful unwieldy mess that is either as slow as molasses or literally matching bronzes with legendary tier players.You fix scrapper and then there will be double chronobunk duos, you fix chrono and will be double scourge duo, you fix scourge and will be double mirage duo, you fix mirage and will be double soulbeast duo.By limitation on the build you solve 50% of the problem, after you can start balance overtuned specs like scrappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortrialus.3062 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @whoknocks.4935 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:@whoknocks.4935 said:@mortrialus.3062 said:Nobody only play 1 single profession, and if happens it's your problem.It doesn't matter how many builds you have under your belt in a system where you are locked to the class you queued on. Which is kind of the point.Ok I have to give you a real example, because you seem quite a bit slow on understanding.You queue as Spellbreaker, Your team is made by:1: Firebrand2: Support Tempest3: Revenant4: Mirage5: Spellbreaker (You)The game started because there are 5 all different profession specializations.Now the tempest can switch to Reaper, Thief, to Chrono, to Core Guardian, to Ranger, to "anything he wants to", but he CANNOT switch to another Mirage or another Spellbreaker BECAUSE THERE IS ALREADY 1.Is it clear now?Nobody said you are locked to the class you queued on, it's not that hard to understand.This way no more double scrapper, no more double thief, no more double anything.Definitely 1 scrapper is way more easy to handle than having 2 or 3 in the same team.Again, if 30-40% of the game's community is queueing on scrappers, the population of the matches has to be 30-40% scrappers. You can't have a match maker that has higher priority than matching people of similar rating. It struggles enough with that as is. People always talk "Oh this will kill PvP for good if this happens or doesn't get fixed!" but an actual real surefire way to actually kill PvP is to subject players to 30-40 minute long queues per match because they're queueing on a very popular build and the matchmaker has a hard hard limit on of only one per team so once the matchmaker puts on scrapper on a team it puts them on the sidelines until the next team gets put together, or the team after that, or the team after that. Or even worse, have the match maker completely give up on matching similarly skilled players so you're getting top 10 former professionals literally playing against bronze league players.The answer is fix what is causing scrappers to make up 30-40% of the queueing population, not rewrite the match maker into an awful unwieldy mess that is either as slow as molasses or literally matching bronzes with legendary tier players.You fix scrapper and then there will be double chronobunk duos, you fix chrono and will be double scourge duo, you fix scourge and will be double mirage duo, you fix mirage and will be double soulbeast duo.By limitation on the build you solve 50% of the problem, after you can start balance overtuned specs like scrappers.If you're garbage at spellbreaker, you can't land your burst skills or full counter, you waste your rampage, you end up getting farmed all game long. You end up in 1v1s you lose or get chased off node while your opponent is able to cap while you provide 0 value to your team. Two spellbreakers on the team won't fix this.If you're garbage at necromancer, you don't know how to position yourself to avoid being focused during team fights and just rush onto the node, you end up getting farmed all game long. Two necromancers on the team won't fix this.If you're garbage at mirage, you waste your dodges and you whiff your damage, you end up getting farmed all game long. You end up in 1v1s you lose or get chased off node while your opponent is able to cap while you provide 0 value to your team. Two mirages on the team won't fix this.If you're garbage at thief, you're failing to create rotations. Your attempts to decap nodes is noticed and there's always someone to intercept you. You plus a fight and not only are you not a help, if you're really bad you might just end up dying and being rally bait as you try to help. Double thief doesn't help this, in fact it makes it way worse. If you're garbage at Scrapper, you are still able to consistently have a presence on the map, keep your allies alive during team fights, and contest or even win nodes far, far beyond what you would be able to with any other build in the game so long as you don't rush into fights against builds that are able to dump 20k+ damage in the span of a CC chain of theirs. Which is about two of them. And even if you are in danger Sneak Gyro is the single best disengage skill in the game providing 18 seconds of stealth on a 45 second cooldown and the only counter to it is more sneak gyro. Double scrapper just makes this all the more noticeable.Double scourge, double soulbeast, double mirage don't stall out games until the clock winds down with neither team barely getting any kills. They happen occasionally still and they don't matter the game mode just progresses as normal and if they're bad they get farmed and lose the game. Double spellbreaker and mirage aren't that strong or that problematic. They either win their fights or they die or are forced to flee the node. Even a single scrapper in a game does ugly, ugly things to the entire game mode. It's not just stacking them that's the problem. They're getting stacked because of how overpowered and how easy they are and as a result garbage players realize they can contribute to the game well beyond their skill level than they would with any other build by running scrapper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammoth.1975 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I am really confused how you managed to die 5 times to a team with 3 scrappers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpretor.3091 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 Blue.Let be real here people. The only person benefitting from Scapper changes is Chaith since he loves Scrapper. Even he probably sees the Scrapper as a B tier spec still due to it’s lack of dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaburro.4712 Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 @Mammoth.1975 said:I am really confused how you managed to die 5 times to a team with 3 scrappers.At least 2 of those times was trying to get out of our Base since guard and mirage were waiting there if I remember well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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