and the nerfs keep coming

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@SehferViega.8725 said:

@"EnderzShadow.2506" said:Don't come here and try to act like you want anything but nerfs for a class you haven't learned to beat.After all these nerfs, Rangers are still going to beat you. No amount of nerfs will make up for poor player skill.

I usually kill with no problem 99% of soulbeast I found. BUT the ammount of (unblockable) damage Soulbeast can make is no sense.The fact they are easy to face doesn't mean that in WvW they can make 25k with Maul, 3,5k x12 with Rapid Fire + 2k each arrow with One Wolf Pack..Of course it happened that I get oneshotte by a soulbeast, especially while I was fighting someone else, like in 1vs2/3.How many times I have downed an enemy, started safe stomp with Shadowstep and get destroyed by a noob soulbeast came from nowhere that only press 1 key?It's the game..This doesn't mean I don't know how to face them, but again is no sense IMHO make tons of damage at 1'500 range without any kind of problem.If this for you is fairy, then take back also oneshot perma stealth deadeye, that was the same kitten.

Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).

If you want to check the fact that I know how to kill a soulbeast or not, you can find me roaming on Piken. :3

And you play a necro. I am not surprised.

I basically only play Thief and not Necro.. Or well, I use to play D/P Daredevil for the most of my time: so please don't come tell me that ranger gets more nerfs then Daredevil.Guess based on what you can say I play necro LOL. I usually only write in Thief forum.

Man, just stop. "BUT IN WVW!"They could of split the differences. I would of been happy with that.

You know what's funny though, there are people who are going to still make videos of them wrecking people with longbow.It's still going to happen. They are still going to tear people up with maul. Don't need unblockables. Don't need sicem.

There are no one shot builds.I've proven this in tests.So have other people.Every classs in game has some stupid wombo combo of damage. If you want to CRY about a ranged weapon, guess what, that's on you.Doesn't matter if it could be done at range or not. That is the weapon rangers have. Get over it.Especially in WvW where you can jack your stats up to unreasonable levels.

I don't care if you got rekt from range when you are already fighting 2 people.You are already at a disadvantage. I could roll up in marauder gear, without food buffs, without unblockable, without sicem--and if you are fighting two other people, I am going to light you up like a christmas tree-especially If you don't notice me and you are already engaged with 2 other people.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@SehferViega.8725 said:But Longbow damage is absolutely no sense considering range, projectile speed, Ranger mobility and survability.

Ugh. No sense to someone that refuse to admit WvW is inherently inbalanced and played on maps that favors a weapon like the longbow when roaming in open areas. People are gonna complain about longbow in that mode until it's completely deleted from the game.

It doesn't surprise me that you play two of the classes most prone to die to longbow builds

, even when you claim to beat 99 % of them. Which also makes me question why you even bother to complain about it at all. Sounds like free lootbags to me.

They drop like flies when I fight them, and as a fellow Piken roamer, it means I'm fighting the same rangers as you. And I'm not using longbow myself.

SoS trait means Marksmanship. Marksmanship means you dropped WS or BM, the former lowering your fury uptime and damage, the latter lowering your consistent damage, and both lowering your surviveability. If running SoS x2 was as good as Endure Pain x2, it would break stuns aswell. Aware that's not your point, but the skills aren't equal.

@SehferViega.8725 said:3) If you run a full offensive build with thief you can't reach the same damage as Soulbeast in competitive modes, no way.. Just to take another example.Your mobility and ability to disengange is better and some of that damage is already being adressed in the upcoming patch. Incremental nerfs are almost always better, whether you like it or not.

ha, you picked up on that also "I beat every ranger that plays longbow but I get one shot also...."

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@SehferViega.8725 said:Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).

And like no other classes, ranger was designed with taxed power coefficients on all their weapons because of an AI (that is hopelessly bad). You can't make an argument for class balance without all the pieces on the table.

A 25k Maul means they're heavily invested and will drop like flies. You can't get those numbers with a more balanced gear setup, especially not when fighting someone else that isn't full zerk either. Longbow on the other hand is always gonna be oppressive in WvW, and I honestly think that's completely fair when the class itself has never had a build fit for the zerg meta.

Thief's are lower mate. By a lot.

Prior to Soulbeast and some ranger trait shakeups, it's actually the opposite; originally the ranger had almost no access to sustained stacking multipliers (it was at best one single hit by stacking AoO/MoC+others with GS Maul builds hitting 40k+ but on a 40s+ cooldown across all its required setup), which is why the ones they do have that haven't been changed are fairly large, and why the class used to be the worst in PvE/dealt low damage. Thief used to have the highest access to modifiers (which have been nerfed aggressively across the board) with the consistently lowest coefficients to compensate. RF for example has over 50% more damage than backstab. Quite literally, RF is a full-on maxed-out Malicious Backstab, at range, with a similar cooldown when accounting for intiative costs/regeneration rate.

Ranger actually across almost all its weapons has some of the highest core-game coefficients per skill. Soulbeast, by adding in tons of boon support, unblockable damage, raw stat values, mobility, and further damage modifiers fundamentally breaks ranger.

Soulbeast may have been fine if they never did the ranger CDI or subsequent improvements, but the spec is absolutely in massive need for pretty huge nerfs.

And honestly, nerfing the hell out of the elite specs across nearly all professions is very desirable. Now if they'd just address the boon problem.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@SehferViega.8725 said:Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).

And like no other classes, ranger was designed with taxed power coefficients on all their weapons because of an AI (that is hopelessly bad). You can't make an argument for class balance without all the pieces on the table.

A 25k Maul means they're heavily invested and will drop like flies. You can't get those numbers with a more balanced gear setup, especially not when fighting someone else that isn't full zerk either. Longbow on the other hand is always gonna be oppressive in WvW, and I honestly think that's completely fair when the class itself has never had a build fit for the zerg meta.

Thief's are lower mate. By a lot.

Prior to Soulbeast and some ranger trait shakeups, it's actually the opposite; originally the ranger had almost no access to sustained stacking multipliers (it was at best one single hit by stacking AoO/MoC+others with GS Maul builds hitting 40k+ but on a 40s+ cooldown across all its required setup), which is why the ones they do have that haven't been changed are fairly large, and why the class used to be the worst in PvE/dealt low damage. Thief used to have the highest access to modifiers (which have been nerfed aggressively across the board) with the consistently lowest coefficients to compensate. RF for example has over 50% more damage than backstab.

Ranger actually across almost all its weapons has some of the highest core-game coefficients per skill. Soulbeast, by adding in tons of boon support, unblockable damage, raw stat values, mobility, and further damage modifiers fundamentally breaks ranger.

Soulbeast may have been fine if they never did the ranger CDI or subsequent improvements, but the spec is absolutely in massive need for pretty huge nerfs.

And honestly, nerfing the hell out of the elite specs across nearly all professions is very desirable. Now if they'd just address the boon problem.

hey Deceiver

Nice to see you roll up, right on time, when Soulbeast and Nerf are mentioned in the same sentence.Like Anet's terrible Balance patches, you too are very reliable.

[DeceiverX.8361]

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@"SehferViega.8725" said:Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).

And like no other classes, ranger was designed with taxed power coefficients on all their weapons because of an AI (that is hopelessly bad). You can't make an argument for class balance without all the pieces on the table.

A 25k Maul means they're heavily invested and will drop like flies. You can't get those numbers with a more balanced gear setup, especially not when fighting someone else that isn't full zerk either. Longbow on the other hand is always gonna be oppressive in WvW, and I honestly think that's completely fair when the class itself has never had a build fit for the zerg meta.

Thief's are lower mate. By a lot.

Prior to Soulbeast and some ranger trait shakeups, it's actually the opposite; originally the ranger had almost no access to sustained stacking multipliers (it was at best one single hit by stacking AoO/MoC+others with GS Maul builds hitting 40k+ but on a 40s+ cooldown across all its required setup), which is why the ones they do have that haven't been changed are fairly large, and why the class used to be the worst in PvE/dealt low damage. Thief used to have the highest access to modifiers (which have been nerfed aggressively across the board) with the consistently lowest coefficients to compensate. RF for example has over 50% more damage than backstab.

Ranger actually across almost all its weapons has some of the highest core-game coefficients per skill. Soulbeast, by adding in tons of boon support, unblockable damage, raw stat values, mobility, and further damage modifiers fundamentally breaks ranger.

Soulbeast may have been fine if they never did the ranger CDI or subsequent improvements, but the spec is absolutely in massive need for pretty huge nerfs.

And honestly, nerfing the hell out of the elite specs across nearly all professions is very desirable. Now if they'd just address the boon problem.

hey Deceiver

Nice to see you roll up, right on time, when Soulbeast and Nerf are mentioned in the same sentence.Like Anet's terrible Balance patches, you too are very reliable.

It's cute because my last-played class is a soulbeast for no other reason than it was overpowered, having been told for ages to "join 'em if you can't beat 'em", and despite having thousands of hours on the class and mained it the longest, I've advocated for thief nerfs for years when the class was actually OP and argued against stupid buffs to D/D thief or thief in general because they would be bad for the game, much to the dismay of the often-whiny members of the thief community that were carried by overpowered noskill builds. Same goes for when I mained reaper and then coached a number of reaper players to their respective title-winning ranks in sPvP despite many of their nerfs. And how I was also proven correct about the nerfs to SR/RS skills and where the real strength of reaper was at the highest level of play.

Not to mention that I've posted in this subsection maybe fifteen times in total in the past five years lol. I'm all over all sections when it comes to balance discussion. Because I have no special interests.

You want to talk smack but I'll advocate for nerfs to anything I play any day of the week if it's oppressively OP. And so far my criticism has been on-point for several years. How correct was I about Deadeye before it even was announced?

If you need a scapegoat to whine about your busted FotM now requiring some semblance of skill to play with moderate success, find someone else.

[SehferViega.8725]

@"Lazze.9870" said:It doesn't surprise me that you play two of the classes most prone to die to longbow builds, even when you claim to beat 99 % of them. Which also makes me question why you even bother to complain about it at all. Sounds like free lootbags to me.

Can you understand the difference between face a soulbeast and get hit by a soulbeast while you are fighting?

Face a glass cannon soulbeast is quite easy: dodge Point Blank Shot, close the distance gap and soulbeast has really low chance to win the fight (basically zero).But what happens if, for any reason (cause you are fighting an enemy, or cause a little lag, or your attention is focusing something else..), you can't see Point Blank Shot projectile coming? You have to waste a breakstun (cause unblockable, Bandit defence is useless and, cause autotargeting, Blindig power is useless too) and Daggerstorm: if you are fast, you survive with 1k-2k life, other cases you'll die.

I play Daredvil power thief, I play daredevil condi thief, I play core thief S/D, I sometimes play Reaper power, I sometimes play War and guess what? I have also a soulbeast, but I can admit its damage in WvW and PvP is too high compared to its survability and that is because lot of its skill/trait are made for PET and not for Ranger itself ("Sic 'Em!" is the first example, but also "We Heal As One!", ecc..).

Something similar happened with Deadeye, when you could make 37-45k damage with Death's Judgment using all Thief's Damage Bonuses.

So IMHO is a good thing if they tone down Soulbeast damage (and maybe give him something in change, I don't want for sure Ranger disapper from the game, but neitehr been hit by 9k Long Range Shot).

[Lazze.9870]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@SehferViega.8725 said:Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).

And like no other classes, ranger was designed with taxed power coefficients on all their weapons because of an AI (that is hopelessly bad). You can't make an argument for class balance without all the pieces on the table.

A 25k Maul means they're heavily invested and will drop like flies. You can't get those numbers with a more balanced gear setup, especially not when fighting someone else that isn't full zerk either. Longbow on the other hand is always gonna be oppressive in WvW, and I honestly think that's completely fair when the class itself has never had a build fit for the zerg meta.

Thief's are lower mate. By a lot.

Ranger sword auto: 0.7 - 0.7 - 0.96Thief sword auto: 0.8 - 0.8 - 1.13

Ranger greatsword auto: 0.64 - 0.8 - 1.3Maul: 1.75Thief staff auto: 0.666 - 0.666 - 1.672Vault: 2.25

Mate. I don't care about the rest of your comment when your opening line is a lie.

[Lazze.9870]

@SehferViega.8725 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:It doesn't surprise me that you play two of the classes most prone to die to longbow builds, even when you claim to beat 99 % of them. Which also makes me question why you even bother to complain about it at all. Sounds like free lootbags to me.

Can you understand the difference between face a soulbeast and get hit by a soulbeast while you are fighting?

Do you understand that you being hit by a second player while having a 1v1 isn't a good reason to ask for nerfs????

[DeceiverX.8361]

@Lazze.9870 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@SehferViega.8725 said:Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).

And like no other classes, ranger was designed with taxed power coefficients on all their weapons because of an AI (that is hopelessly bad). You can't make an argument for class balance without all the pieces on the table.

A 25k Maul means they're heavily invested and will drop like flies. You can't get those numbers with a more balanced gear setup, especially not when fighting someone else that isn't full zerk either. Longbow on the other hand is always gonna be oppressive in WvW, and I honestly think that's completely fair when the class itself has never had a build fit for the zerg meta.

Thief's are lower mate. By a lot.

Ranger sword auto: 0.7 - 0.7 - 0.96Thief sword auto: 0.8 - 0.8 - 1.13

Ranger greatsword auto: 0.64 - 0.8 - 1.3Maul: 1.75Thief staff auto: 0.666 - 0.666 - 1.672Vault: 2.25

Mate. I don't care about the rest of your comment when your opening line is a lie.

Except Thief sword AA is nerfed to 0.6/0.6 in PvP and WvW lol. Your numbers aren't right even in your own example and PvE balance is nonsense where the only thing that matters is AA pressure which is all thief actually has as far as good coefficients go, so don't give me that. If PvE balance mattered mirage would never have needed to be nerfed.

Hornet Sting/Monarch's Leap: 0.9//1.25Infil Strike: 0.75//0

FS and Serpant both at 0.8

Larcenous 1.6 // Maul 1.7 + 50% next (min. 0.4)

Rapid Fire: 3.75Barrage: 4.8Smoke Assault (Merge): 2.5Hunter's Call: 2.4 * 1.01^16) = 2.81

Vault: 2.5Backstab: 2.4/1.2Unload: 3.2 (All blockable)PW: 3.16 (Self-root)

Long Range Shot (Ranger Longbow AA) - 0.9Brutal Aim (DE AA) - 0.6, lower rangeVital Shot (Pistol AA) - 0.575

Condi pressure isn't even close. 1310 + 2948 =4258 on Torch for RangerP/D on thief - combo 3 skills @ 11 initiative: 660 + 440 + 763 = 1863 or less than half

Swoop and HS tied at 50%

Let's not forget the might and vuln stacking on ranger as well yielding substantially more damage.

Yeah please tell me just how horrendously low the damage is on ranger again? Thief gets a better AA and some slightly higher damage on what are classified as generally terrible skills. And the difference on most of ranger's is huge (RF is an entire combo from D/D thief of all things, for example).

[Lazze.9870]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:Yeah please tell me just how horrendously low the damage is on ranger again? Thief gets a better AA and some slightly higher damage on what are classified as generally terrible skills. And the difference on most of ranger's is huge (RF is an entire combo from D/D thief of all things, for example).

You were quoting a comment where I said the ranger was designed with (and may I add: have had a history of) relatively low power coefficients compared to other classes and their comparable weapons. That's a fact. Recent buffs to ranger and some split nerfs to thief doesn't change that. 0.6 instead of 0.7 on the first two attacks? MISTAKES WERE MADE. The last auto is still right, and so are the rest of the numbers.

On top of that you're trying to play it off as if it always was the case that ranger had high coefficients, but lacked modifiers. Pure bullshit, mate. If we were to look at those sword comparisons back in 2015, it would have been in even more in favor of the thief sword. And it even cleaves on all the autos, such luxury.

Condi pressure? LOL. As if ranger has had a relevant condi build in pvp/wvw in recent times. Let's single out that one highly visible aoe field on a weapon with zero utility. That will get them.

Done with you. Can alrerady tell where you're coming from.

[EnderzShadow.2506]

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@EnderzShadow.2506 said:

@DeceiverX.8361 said:

@Lazze.9870 said:

@SehferViega.8725 said:Here we are talking to class balance: ranger have tons of Bonus Damage in their traits, like no other classes, so is normal to tone down their damage (like in fact they have done now).

And like no other classes, ranger was designed with taxed power coefficients on all their weapons because of an AI (that is hopelessly bad). You can't make an argument for class balance without all the pieces on the table.

A 25k Maul means they're heavily invested and will drop like flies. You can't get those numbers with a more balanced gear setup, especially not when fighting someone else that isn't full zerk either. Longbow on the other hand is always gonna be oppressive in WvW, and I honestly think that's completely fair when the class itself has never had a build fit for the zerg meta.

Thief's are lower mate. By a lot.

Prior to Soulbeast and some ranger trait shakeups, it's actually the opposite; originally the ranger had almost no access to sustained stacking multipliers (it was at best one single hit by stacking AoO/MoC+others with GS Maul builds hitting 40k+ but on a 40s+ cooldown across all its required setup), which is why the ones they do have that haven't been changed are fairly large, and why the class used to be the worst in PvE/dealt low damage. Thief used to have the highest access to modifiers (which have been nerfed aggressively across the board) with the consistently lowest coefficients to compensate. RF for example has over 50% more damage than backstab.

Ranger actually across almost all its weapons has some of the highest core-game coefficients per skill. Soulbeast, by adding in tons of boon support, unblockable damage, raw stat values, mobility, and further damage modifiers fundamentally breaks ranger.

Soulbeast may have been fine if they never did the ranger CDI or subsequent improvements, but the spec is absolutely in massive need for pretty huge nerfs.

And honestly, nerfing the hell out of the elite specs across nearly all professions is very desirable. Now if they'd just address the boon problem.

hey Deceiver

Nice to see you roll up, right on time, when Soulbeast and Nerf are mentioned in the same sentence.Like Anet's terrible Balance patches, you too are very reliable.

It's cute because my last-played class...

Which was when?

How many Rangers are there in the top 250? I'd say 5....maybe 2-3 that haven't paid their way.

Where are all the rangers just blowing everyone up in PvP matches?How do Rangers stand in Competitive AT's? Top 250?