rifle vs pistol

[Gandrogh.1530]

Hi, I didn't have the time to read but I'll give some advice. P/P is not that good but P/X or X/P is worth tinking about. For thrashes in open world if you don't play a staff DD you can go for Sword/Pistol. Third skill have a cleave and fifth skill is an AOE blind(=invicible)In PVP Dagger/Pistol give you a gap closer with 3 to stick to your target.Rifle and shortbow are the most reliable ranged weapon. Rifle got heavy damage, little mobility but single target and the shortbow is kinda like a counter part : high mobility, aoe, "low" damage.P/P build struggle to get in stealth too

[weaponwh.9810]

@"Gandrogh.1530" said:Hi, I didn't have the time to read but I'll give some advice. P/P is not that good but P/X or X/P is worth tinking about. For thrashes in open world if you don't play a staff DD you can go for Sword/Pistol. Third skill have a cleave and fifth skill is an AOE blind(=invicible)In PVP Dagger/Pistol give you a gap closer with 3 to stick to your target.Rifle and shortbow are the most reliable ranged weapon. Rifle got heavy damage, little mobility but single target and the shortbow is kinda like a counter part : high mobility, aoe, "low" damage.P/P build struggle to get in stealth too

I find staff DD not as good as P/P, maybe i'm playing wrong. for P/P its really easy just unload, and things die so fast. staff D/D seem to be dodge, skill 2, etc. this is for open world.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@"Trianox.3486" said:Thanks for all the comments/replies! It makes it an interesting discussion.

AAaaaaaah, for the vigor part: Yeah, the rune only provides 9 sec out of a 20 sec ICD, as you pointed out. But Given "Payback", I find I don't need Trickster as much to lower tricks' cooldowns, so I'll keep withdraw but won't have the extra cleanse, and therefore, I use bountiful thief (15 sec duration every mark). To be honest, I rarely have to dodge, so I tend to just remain on Trickster... and skip on vigor, but if I see there is an issue, I switch around and vigor stays in...That would be for areas where enemies rush too fast in melee.Same for Istan, as mentionned above. =)

In boss fights, there are certain condi that are just really annoying, so I'll pick trickster, but IF and only IF this is a "dangerous boss", I'll swap BQoBK for Maleficent Seven. That will mean I get lower dmg per hit, but I gain vigor and protection, regen, etc, and coupled with Mercy... it's just a ton more of initiatives, so it somewhat compensate the loss of Quickness + BQoBK's bonuses.

So basically, it's situational. When I find I need that extra safety, Bountiful it is, especially on tashmob. Payback resets cooldown very quickly, and condi cleanse isn't much an issue usually. Boss, Maleficent, and I keep Trickster as Payback won't be as effective and as cleanses might be needed more often.

Make sense. Thanks.

Yeah: I do hear you on the "marking is annoying". =/

Yes, the pain, lol.

I am hoping that they will make a QoL change where you automatically apply mark on a new random target that got hit by Collateral Damage.

Interesting build you got there. Huum, seems fun to play!What is the thinking behind healing power? It does not seem to make "that much" of a difference on Withdraw, is it for Escapist Fortitude?

The healing power enables my Daredevil to wade into a thick group of trash mob where a single Vault will deal AoE damage and heals me back to full health (Invigorating Precision). Fury and Twin Fangs grants enough crit chance to pop the heals. After healing full health, Keen Observer will grant another 5% to crit chance. If Escapist triggered while Vaulting, more heals. With such a high boon duration and low Swipe CD, I can keep Fury, Swiftness, and Might from Thrill indefinitely.

Once the group is thinned out, I swap to P/P to finish off the stragglers. Since I have no access to Collateral Damage, this is the best thing to thinned out the mob. It is better than Collateral Damage since I don't have to annoyingly mark every. single. target. just to deal AoE damage.

lol, yeah, dead thief = no dps.

Aint that the truth. lol

[Gandrogh.1530]

@weaponwh.9810 said:

@"Gandrogh.1530" said:Hi, I didn't have the time to read but I'll give some advice. P/P is not that good but P/X or X/P is worth tinking about. For thrashes in open world if you don't play a staff DD you can go for Sword/Pistol. Third skill have a cleave and fifth skill is an AOE blind(=invicible)In PVP Dagger/Pistol give you a gap closer with 3 to stick to your target.Rifle and shortbow are the most reliable ranged weapon. Rifle got heavy damage, little mobility but single target and the shortbow is kinda like a counter part : high mobility, aoe, "low" damage.P/P build struggle to get in stealth too

I find staff DD not as good as P/P, maybe i'm playing wrong. for P/P its really easy just unload, and things die so fast. staff D/D seem to be dodge, skill 2, etc. this is for open world.

Staff DD is about dodge, vault spamming. There is also a blind on skill 4 and blind is op. You can hit for 20K damage 3-4 times in a row, in aoe, and you dodge everything. You can break projectiles with your aa too.And bô is cool.P/P 's usefull skills cost too much.

[weaponwh.9810]

@Gandrogh.1530 said:

@weaponwh.9810 said:

@Gandrogh.1530 said:Hi, I didn't have the time to read but I'll give some advice. P/P is not that good but P/X or X/P is worth tinking about. For thrashes in open world if you don't play a staff DD you can go for Sword/Pistol. Third skill have a cleave and fifth skill is an AOE blind(=invicible)In PVP Dagger/Pistol give you a gap closer with 3 to stick to your target.Rifle and shortbow are the most reliable ranged weapon. Rifle got heavy damage, little mobility but single target and the shortbow is kinda like a counter part : high mobility, aoe, "low" damage.P/P build struggle to get in stealth too

I find staff DD not as good as P/P, maybe i'm playing wrong. for P/P its really easy just unload, and things die so fast. staff D/D seem to be dodge, skill 2, etc. this is for open world.

Staff DD is about dodge, vault spamming. There is also a blind on skill 4 and blind is op. You can hit for 20K damage 3-4 times in a row, in aoe, and you dodge everything. You can break projectiles with your aa too.And bô is cool.P/P 's usefull skills cost too much.

when you said 20k dmg, is this with raid buff or just solo open world? if its latter, i'm not sure how I get that, whats the rotation/skill/trait I should use for that kind of dmg build? I currently use the one from meta.

[Gandrogh.1530]

@weaponwh.9810 said:

@Gandrogh.1530 said:

@weaponwh.9810 said:

@Gandrogh.1530 said:Hi, I didn't have the time to read but I'll give some advice. P/P is not that good but P/X or X/P is worth tinking about. For thrashes in open world if you don't play a staff DD you can go for Sword/Pistol. Third skill have a cleave and fifth skill is an AOE blind(=invicible)In PVP Dagger/Pistol give you a gap closer with 3 to stick to your target.Rifle and shortbow are the most reliable ranged weapon. Rifle got heavy damage, little mobility but single target and the shortbow is kinda like a counter part : high mobility, aoe, "low" damage.P/P build struggle to get in stealth too

I find staff DD not as good as P/P, maybe i'm playing wrong. for P/P its really easy just unload, and things die so fast. staff D/D seem to be dodge, skill 2, etc. this is for open world.

Staff DD is about dodge, vault spamming. There is also a blind on skill 4 and blind is op. You can hit for 20K damage 3-4 times in a row, in aoe, and you dodge everything. You can break projectiles with your aa too.And bô is cool.P/P 's usefull skills cost too much.

when you said 20k dmg, is this with raid buff or just solo open world? if its latter, i'm not sure how I get that, whats the rotation/skill/trait I should use for that kind of dmg build? I currently use the one from meta.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Daredevil_-_Power_DPS

You can switch No Quarter from the crit strike tree for Invigorating Precision in open world of if you struggle to stay alive. It was certainly with a lot of buff that I hit for 20k. You want to have the Bounding Dodger buff in order to hit hard. The rota is very easy : dodge, auto attack/staff skill 2/Fist Flurry, repeat. Check the build for detail. You can carry a bloodlust sigil on your shortbow. And remember to play with an ascended staff over an exotic one because it's a 10% dps increase and you may not need the Assassin Signet, you have enough damage for open world mobs. I usually run shadow refuge or shadowstep but feel free to change

[weaponwh.9810]

does the bloodlust sigil on shortbow trigger even i'm only use staff?

[Sobx.1758]

@weaponwh.9810 said:does the bloodlust sigil on shortbow trigger even i'm only use staff?

You have to stack kills while using the weapon with the sigil and then when you swap between main/secondary weapons, the sigil keeps working regardless of it being on a stowed weapon.

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@weaponwh.9810 said:does the bloodlust sigil on shortbow trigger even i'm only use staff?

If the shortbow is not your active weapon set, the bloodlust will not trigger on kills. However, even if the shortbow is not your active weapon set, any stack of bloodlust you've accumulated remains as long as you stay in the same map or as long you didn't go down. If you want to continue to trigger bloodlust, you'll have to have one sigil per weapon set. In P/P, one of the pistols has to have bloodlust.

[weaponwh.9810]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@weaponwh.9810 said:does the bloodlust sigil on shortbow trigger even i'm only use staff?

You have to stack kills while using the weapon with the sigil and then when you swap between main/secondary weapons, the sigil keeps working regardless of it being on a stowed weapon.

then whats the point for daredevil staff if i'm using shortbow to kill ? unless bloodlust timer is indefinitely for the map, then I can use SB to kill few mobs then switch staff as long as I stay on the same map?

[Sobx.1758]

@weaponwh.9810 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@weaponwh.9810 said:does the bloodlust sigil on shortbow trigger even i'm only use staff?

You have to stack kills while using the weapon with the sigil and then when you swap between main/secondary weapons, the sigil keeps working regardless of it being on a stowed weapon.

then whats the point for daredevil staff if i'm using shortbow to kill ? unless bloodlust timer is indefinitely for the map, then I can use SB to kill few mobs then switch staff as long as I stay on the same map?

Yup, that's what you do. The stacks reset on map change and when you're downed, there's no timer. So if you stay on the same map for 20 hours, you take few first kills on the weapon with bloodlust sigil, stack it to the cap, swap weapon to the one you actually want to use (like staff) and have the "free" power boost until something downs you or you switch map (or log out, of course).

[Kageseigi.2150]

@Sobx.1758 said:The stacks reset on map change and when you're downed

Also, unless they changed it, the stacks reset when you go into water (swimming mode). You can get around this by having the Sigil of Bloodlust attached on your equipped underwater weapon (if you want to be safe, attach the sigil to both underwater weapons). That way, even though you switch weapons when you enter the water, your stacks remain. I don't remember if the stacks remain if you exit the water (swimming mode) if your non-Sigil of Bloodlust weapon is equipped, however.

[Aigleborgne.2981]

@Kageseigi.2150 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:The stacks reset on map change and when you're downed

Also, unless they changed it, the stacks reset when you go into water (swimming mode). You can get around this by having the Sigil of Bloodlust attached on your equipped underwater weapon (if you want to be safe, attach the sigil to both underwater weapons). That way, even though you switch weapons when you enter the water, your stacks remain. I don't remember if the stacks remain if you exit the water (swimming mode) if your non-Sigil of Bloodlust weapon is equipped, however.

Stacks remain as long as you have a stacking sigil in one of your weapons. Land and underwater are 2 different set of weapons.Usually, you only put stacking sigil in your main set because nobody care about underwater. So you loose your stacks when entering water.

[Ralkuth.1456]

Strictly open world? Or can I talk a bit of PvP (I’m just a low plat pleb myself)? I play some Deadeye on the side, so I’ll talk just Deadeye for the most part.

1. Some concepts on how Thief could be played

My PvE enjoyment stems primarily from amateur solo attempts on Hero Point Champions.I believe Thief shouldn't strictly be theory-crafted for maximum comfort (though sometimes you just want to relax); with how fragile it is as a class, it makes you alert and its active evades reward you for being attentive and using your evades on reaction to attacks that have a notable animation that the player can react to and avoid.It's also up to the Thief player to work out what can be avoided and what cannot be, so that situations that the Thief cannot mitigate with its Stealth and Evasion don't happen in the first place.A lot of the time though, with the tools a Thief has at its disposal, it's fun to try and get out of sticky situations (like an HP with too many spawning trash mobs such as the Tangled Depths Inquisitor; you can pull it to the right corner near the entrance after clearing the area) with your CDs instead of straight up dying after expending utilities and not able to disengage like other classes.

2. Pistol Set

Pistol/Pistol can be nice for relaxing trash mob farming, and you are free to strafe while doing maximum amounts of damage on things that don’t really dodge, nor when you are required to stop your Unload channel to dodge things. You can also strap on the on-kill traits for even more efficiency.

2.1. Problems with Unload Deadeye

However, things do get complicated when you need to dodge in the middle of your Unload spam to avoid damage and you discover that you have run dry on Initiative because you didn’t land all 8 of your shots. Your defense is limited to daze and soft CC from conditions on the Pistol set and they are all fuelled by initiative, and even if you swap to Shortbow the situation remains the same. Especially so for Champions with a Resolve bar, your skillset boils down to just #3 and dodging, and the latter interferes with the former.

2.2. Workarounds

Compensation means you have to run more defense on your utility sets. Or maybe run Daredevil for the Dash + Signet for repositioning.Or even Bound for some stealth to buy time on small platforms, though by that point it's more a Staff build than Pistol.

3. Rifle Set

Rifle has a lot better kiting tools on the set because of the (2) swiftness, (4) backward port (to use in place of dodge + de-target about face), and (5) kneel skills like the (4) small smoke barricade that blocks projectiles and allow you to stealth by combining with standing (4) without switching weapons.

3.1. Technicalities

It’s just a bit more technical but to play as a Thief with all the themes of active defense, I believe the technicality is a requirement. Rifle Standing (4) "Death's Retreat" and Heal skill "Withdraw" benefit from a rather technical hotkey - About Face.By hitting About Face -> Retreating Skills quickly, you can "retreat" forward with mobility skills.Withdraw is really simple to use this way.Death's Retreat teleports you directly away on a line, drawn from you to your targetted enemy. To freely use its repositioning, you need to clear target (use "esc", or use the keybind "Lock Autotarget" press and release, or click empty screen space with Left Mouse Button), then use About Face.About Face can be used with the camera locked to your current direction, and you'll notice you do it sometimes on accident. This is because clicking Left Mouse Button shortly before using About Face, or holding LMB while using About Face, will lock the camera in place while only your character turns.Then, let go of your LMB if you are still holding it, then press Right Mouse Button + Forward at the same time to turn your character back to where the camera faces.Here,

how to roll forward with "Withdraw".

3.2. Sample Builds

Rifle S/P Critical Strikes - go for Scholar or any other damage Rune if you want to.Rifle D/P Shadow Arts - can swap out Withdraw for Hide in Shadows, but Withdraw is an extremely good heal skill, and you can maximize its value if you can also use it for the Evade - try not to spam it on CD solely for the heal.Deadly Arts for Power builds is a very sPvP oriented traitline that leans even more heavily into Steal for its utility (Poison and Weakness, as well as access to random CD resets and double Stolen Item -> Death's Judgment) and doesn't really have any sustained damage buffs nor defensives.I have no idea about Deadeye P/D.

3.3. Some playstyle suggestions

The Rifle auto doesn’t have bad damage and when fighting Champions, don’t force yourself to Kneel for damage when you need to be on the move. Standing (2) to maintain Swiftness if it happens to fall off, Standing (3) to gather Malice, Standing (4) to keep kiting enemies that try to melee (you can buy more time if you port after NPC becomes stationery for melee hit), and Dodge if you have to avoid a hit, swap to Rifle if you haven't mid-dodge (to Stealth after the dodge), and pull off a 5-Malice Death's Judgment even while being defensive. It's rather rare for you to have safe moments while solo'ing melee Champions where you can Mark for Quickness, Kneel and pull off (3) twice (unless you know all the animations for its moves); don't try Ranged Champions since you're far too fragile to tank it outside of your projectile hate, unless you can walk out of their ranged attacks often and your CDs have time to rotate (full Stealth builds take too long most of the time to kill things under the timer, but you can prove me wrong).

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@"Ralkuth.1456" said:

2. Pistol Set

Pistol/Pistol can be nice for relaxing trash mob farming...

Nope nope nope. P/P with DE is never relaxing. The frustration builds up when I have to mark every. single. target. If you want to relaxing trash mob farming, use DD staff with Pitfall.

Until ArenaNet redesigned Collateral Damage to automatically Mark a random target that received damage, it will never be a relaxing P/P farming.