Buff PvE Thieves

[PLS.4095]

Buff Tihef pvp too.

[alejandro.2093]

@PLS.4095 said:Buff Tihef pvp too.

that too, but they will hate any buffs in pvp hehehehe

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Rukia.4802 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The problem with PvE is, if you buff the Thief to have a better benchmark in raids, you effectively made them overpowered in other PvE encounters which makes the experience very boring. Raid encounters should be more than just DPS and beating the time. There should be strategies and Thief specific tasks involved that without a Thief, the encounter is still doable, but more difficult. This way, you have to bring a Thief since no one else can do that task and the consequence of not bringing a Thief is greater difficulty and high chance of failure.

A poor raid design is lumping the Thief with other DPS and not utilizing their full potential. Stealth and shadowstep is rarely needed other than to proc a trait. And if those aren't needed, why even bother taking a Thief when you can take a Guardian? Which is what we're seeing in a lot of raid compositions -- mass Guardians. This is proof that the raid designs are monotonous and as long as you locked in the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps - aka all Guardians), you're good.

So if the only deciding factor is the DPS benchmark, even if the Thief scores higher, it's just a DPS task that a Guardian/Warrior or Ranger can do. The raid has to be designed where a the expertise of the Thief is needed. Otherwise, why even bring a Thief?

In FF14 the way they made my ninja raid / dungeon viable is having an ability that increases the damage my target takes by 5% for x seconds for the ENTIRE group, which ends up being a big raid dmg boost. It doesn't increase personal dps much, but makes me valuable and wanted in a raid where otherwise I would be just like thief.. only have dps nothing else.

Yup, being a group stats stick is way better than personal DPS.

[Rukia.4802]

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Rukia.4802 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The problem with PvE is, if you buff the Thief to have a better benchmark in raids, you effectively made them overpowered in other PvE encounters which makes the experience very boring. Raid encounters should be more than just DPS and beating the time. There should be strategies and Thief specific tasks involved that without a Thief, the encounter is still doable, but more difficult. This way, you have to bring a Thief since no one else can do that task and the consequence of not bringing a Thief is greater difficulty and high chance of failure.

A poor raid design is lumping the Thief with other DPS and not utilizing their full potential. Stealth and shadowstep is rarely needed other than to proc a trait. And if those aren't needed, why even bother taking a Thief when you can take a Guardian? Which is what we're seeing in a lot of raid compositions -- mass Guardians. This is proof that the raid designs are monotonous and as long as you locked in the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps - aka all Guardians), you're good.

So if the only deciding factor is the DPS benchmark, even if the Thief scores higher, it's just a DPS task that a Guardian/Warrior or Ranger can do. The raid has to be designed where a the expertise of the Thief is needed. Otherwise, why even bring a Thief?

In FF14 the way they made my ninja raid / dungeon viable is having an ability that increases the damage my target takes by 5% for x seconds for the ENTIRE group, which ends up being a big raid dmg boost. It doesn't increase personal dps much, but makes me valuable and wanted in a raid where otherwise I would be just like thief.. only have dps nothing else.

Yup, being a group stats stick is way better than personal DPS.

You never played ninja have you? lol

[Sir Vincent III.1286]

@Rukia.4802 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:

@Rukia.4802 said:

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:The problem with PvE is, if you buff the Thief to have a better benchmark in raids, you effectively made them overpowered in other PvE encounters which makes the experience very boring. Raid encounters should be more than just DPS and beating the time. There should be strategies and Thief specific tasks involved that without a Thief, the encounter is still doable, but more difficult. This way, you have to bring a Thief since no one else can do that task and the consequence of not bringing a Thief is greater difficulty and high chance of failure.

A poor raid design is lumping the Thief with other DPS and not utilizing their full potential. Stealth and shadowstep is rarely needed other than to proc a trait. And if those aren't needed, why even bother taking a Thief when you can take a Guardian? Which is what we're seeing in a lot of raid compositions -- mass Guardians. This is proof that the raid designs are monotonous and as long as you locked in the holy trinity (tank, healer, dps - aka all Guardians), you're good.

So if the only deciding factor is the DPS benchmark, even if the Thief scores higher, it's just a DPS task that a Guardian/Warrior or Ranger can do. The raid has to be designed where a the expertise of the Thief is needed. Otherwise, why even bring a Thief?

In FF14 the way they made my ninja raid / dungeon viable is having an ability that increases the damage my target takes by 5% for x seconds for the ENTIRE group, which ends up being a big raid dmg boost. It doesn't increase personal dps much, but makes me valuable and wanted in a raid where otherwise I would be just like thief.. only have dps nothing else.

Yup, being a group stats stick is way better than personal DPS.

You never played ninja have you? lol

Nope, I'm a Dragoon and I appreciate the Ninja.

[Dreamreaver.4908]

I just want my condi options back. :anguished:

[Carnifex.3275]

Wow since when Bounding dodger became 10%. I missed somethin. Definitely need to revert that in PvE. + Changes you suggested with ferocious strikes. And we should be okey for awhile. I realised somethin is wrong when today we ran T4 and Soulbeast was doin like 20% more dmg. And it's even hard to outdps DH also. I've seen some weavers come close to our DPS and share #1#2 place. But now you gotta try alot harder to stay #1. And that's the thing.. if Thief becomes not #1 at single target DPS.. then we become kind of useless. All other classes have something else to rely on if they are not the best at DPS. Thief doesn't.

[alejandro.2093]

At this point in PvE, we will just be a glorified skipping tool and a door opener

[pninak.1069]

yea thief didn't get nerfed. souldbeast got. so I wonder where you get this from. wouldn't venomshare be the best dps for raids? you *5 dps+ your own, but not to the same extends as with pure power builds.