Yes, another thread about thieves. Nerfs are required.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@DemonSeed.3528 said:

@"SpellOfIniquity.1780" said:This covers it pretty well.

I've played Thief many times in the past but I always end up deleting it out of frustration because I'm terrible at it despite really enjoying it. I made another this past week and have been punishing myself playing it trying to force myself to improve but progress is slow. I'm not a fast learner and I'm a mediocre player.

I've never had much trouble with Thieves and I can appreciate a good one when I meet one but playing it makes me realize even more how high the skill floor is. Thief isn't an easy class to just jump on and do well with. It has a high skill floor and near infinite skill ceiling in that it isn't a good beginner class but you can do some crazy things with it when you get good with it. That's a part of what makes good Thieves so irritating - it feels like they can do what ever they want and it's hard to stop them.

I think Thief is fine right now and if anything could use buffs. It has been in pretty rough shape for quite some time now and comparing the entire class to one cheese build ( 1 shot DE ) is an extremely unfair way to pass judgement.

When I first played the game I used to hate thieves, I abhorred them. They were annoying. They brought the fear in me. HOWEVER, I also come from a point of gaming where these kind of things are the exact challenges that excite me, and motivate me to improve more. This is also another reason why I multiclass. I want to overcome the odds, I want to outskill and outplay, and when the challenge is too little I minimize my kit. I was really motivated in wanting to beat thieves, I didn't want to fear every corner of the map. Why was I being killed all the time? Why were thieves always choosing me? I realised at that point I was always making myself an easy target. Always out in the open, always unaware of surroundings, always going to exactly the hot spots on the map where these classes would excel, thinking I can just run in a straight line, thinking that ally over there will help me, etc...Anyways, I decided at one point I should actually roll a thief, and visit the thief forum, ask questions, look at their tips and see past threads, and especially look at youtubers who main or multiclass on thief. Instead of bringing my hatred into that place, I asked questions and tips, and I looked beyond my bias and I really appreciated all the people giving their thoughts and feedback in there. That's why I always chuckle when I see nerf thief threads, because I think these people were truly unable to look beyond their bias when there are solutions.Whenever I see a thief now, if it's just a common average thief, I'm just like "oh you gonna die now", but if it's an above average player you can usually tell in the first exchange, and it gets the blood moving for a nice exciting fight. Sometimes you just gotta pull a Rocky Balboa and train yourself to deal with things. That's how I did it anyways. I enjoy seeing high skill plays from all classes, I think everyone should at least dabble in a bit of multiclassing, and playing with all the weaponsets and also power/hybrid/condi builds. It's great fun for me at least.Always nice to see someone elses perspective on it. Trust me, when you suddenly feel that progression even though it is a small one, it is like a great burden has been lifted.

PS - I know not everyone is like this, but when I get pwnt by a thief, my first thought is always, "kitten, I need to play my thief more like that"

Wow pvp and wvw would be a vastly different place if more players shared ur mentality. So would the forums haha imagine instead of seeing hyperbole bias driven nerf threads based on nonsense replaced with actual discussions based on real outliers based on actual sensible concerns not just annoyances and I got killed delete this class threads lol.Or discussions that don't always pertain to the deletion of a classes viability post or pre nerf by the same people asking for others to be deleted as wellDiscussions of tips and strategies combined with build theories etc, man that be great. Maybe the forums wouldn't have shrunk to the same handful of posters lol.Sometimes feels like were all as a community actively killing the game we share a liking for lol.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

@Burnfall.9573 said:

@Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

@Burnfall.9573 said:here is a dual between a Thief Profession player vs a Necromancer Profession player, playing a tank build'stability', 'Op healing-tank build'.....absolutely nothing couldn't save the Necromancer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRFnPiPMFcw

the question to be asked is, how does a condition base profession dies to a non-condition base profession and being immune to all of its conditions all at the same time?Ever fought a boonbeast on a condi build that wasn't necro? Similar result. And that's assuming you actually hit the soulbeast with substantial conditions, which is something the necro completely failed to do to the thief in that fight.

He'd have been better off on core necro as scourge gives too many AoE's that the thief can dodge through to get cleanses, and shroud also gives you much more effective health to work with than barrier does. He should have put doom and geomancy sigils on his weapons along with the traited AoE weakness and bleed on shroud entry along with one foot in the grave to break the daze, so he can use shroud as an instant cast pbAoE to punish the thief and load him up with condis between his evade frames as he ports in. Doing this alone would have landed 6 bleeds, which is more than the necro lands in that entire fight. He also should have run towards the thief when he ported back, and placed marks on his return points. This would have negated the cleanse the thief gets from porting back, loading more bleeds, and would have put much more pressure on him by forcing more cleanses. Necro is tanky but cannot sustain under pressure, while thief is evasive but, critically, also cannot sustain under pressure. The thief will lose if you force it to trade blows and don't attack into evades, so it's to your advantage to be aggressive but not spammy like this player was.

Example: it's like having a mach 1 aircraft out speeding a mach 6 aircraft and calling it 'balanced', 'good design'I think this is the only time a necro will ever be called a mach 6 anything xDIt's Unbelievable what Guild Wars 2 put up with!!Well, the necro missed the vast majority of his skills. You do tend to die when that happens.History shows that asking for nerfs, is asking for excuses to not deal with the root cause problemWhat exactly is the root problem? Usually you complain about one shots from perma stealth, which I actually agree can be obnoxious coming from any class (including mesmer), but this build does neither of those things. Are you outraged that he won because he played better?-once again, Bad Design is screaming all over Thief Profession design-How is evasive, non stealth thief bad design? What should the thief do instead, given he has no blocks, no stability, and his passive cleanses are tied to sword 2 return ports and dodges? What you're asking for is for thief to become a warrior, there's already a class that plays like you want thief to.Thief Profession either need to be completely redesign at once or be immediately removedIf anything this video is a reason to redesign necro, as pbAoE skill spam encourages lazy play.

if to bring Necromancer Profession back to Guild Wars Necromancer Profession design, that would be great

https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Necromancer

-Necromancer Profession is a condition caster and that's all i can say :)-

Want gw? Go play gw, this is gw2 not gw.Try playing thief as stated and learn its tools and low and behold the secret of how to deal with them as opponents.I'm no pro and I deal with them fine, why can't u? If u spent have the time learning them as u do posting ur agenda driven anti thief posts ud be one bad a$$ thief killer.