Energy VS bleed&burning

[Zraurum.8493]

Why doesn't anyone use smoldering & agony sigils in Mirage builds? And they always put a sigil of energy, even for PVE & www, is it not possible that it does more damage ???

[Salt Mode.3780]

WvW for the purpose that mirage now only has one dodge, and the reason why energy is better is because the reapplication aspect as well as being able to avoid dmg is better. Having more stacks means more dmg rather then the flat % dmg it gives.

[Zraurum.8493]

@Salt Mode.3780 said:WvW for the purpose that mirage now only has one dodge, and the reason why energy is better is because the reapplication aspect as well as being able to avoid dmg is better. Having more stacks means more dmg rather then the flat % dmg it gives.

when two evasions were also advised to set energy, I just wonder what is the increase in energy damage, how much more it is than setting the sigil to smoldering or agony, besides, the mirage has prerequisites for inflicting bleed damage, and in openworld assemblies there are such sigils on energy, so I'm wondering how much the damage will increase???. After all, the duration of bleed stacks will increase if you use agony.

[Infusion.7149]

For mirage the energy sigil allows you to ambush more often.Burning doesn't make up a majority of Mirage damage ,it's below 12% even if you don't factor in confusion ticks.

[Zraurum.8493]

@Infusion.7149 said:For mirage the energy sigil allows you to ambush more often.Burning doesn't make up a majority of Mirage damage ,it's below 12% even if you don't factor in confusion ticks.

Can I be more detailed, I do not quite understand the answer?

[Infusion.7149]

Simply put, if a condition does only 12% of the total damage then you don't want to lengthen the duration if you can boost all conditions' length by 10% or increase all conditions' damage 3-5% with bursting sigil (Bursting sigil has an anomaly where you can stack superior and major). Mirage is a special case because the ambush (which applies torment on axe) does more damage than autoattacks or skills and also triggers Infinite Horizon. The auto chain has less torment application than the ambush , which is on par with other skill usage such as Lingering Thoughts (axe 2) or Illusionary Counter (scepter 2).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imaginary_Axeshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infinite_Horizon

If you look at the LN benchmark here https://lucky-noobs.com/builds/mirage-conditionThis is the log: https://dps.report/lJXi-20200627-145336_golemPlayer does 96.285% of total non-confusion DPS, so we can more or less ignore clones and phantasmsTorment is 44.154%Bleeding is <25%Burning is <12%Most of the time the goal is to use the ambush (mirage cloak) and lingering thoughts.

edit: the snowcrows log has torment at ~47%
https://dps.report/onkq-20191110-051319_golem

This is in contrast to condi chrono:https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/mesmer/chronomancer/condition/The log is here: https://dps.report/MJQq-20200711-144032_golemPlayer does 93.045% of total non-confusion DPSBurning is ~33%Bleeding is ~19%Torment is ~17%

Edit 2 :
If for some reason you decide to run one dodge mirage in WvW rather than condi chrono or core condi, the energy sigil offsets the loss of a dodge. You'd also want jaunt and/or blink.The only reason to run mirage really is for axe.

The roaming mirage build recommended on metabattle for example is running tormenting runes. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Chaotic_Condition_Roamer

[Salt Mode.3780]

Again mesmer condi dmg comes from reapplication and stacks from clones which you will need dodges for because if infinite horizon. Other classes that dont rely on clones to apply condi can use those % dmg modifier sigils. This is as simple of an explanation as it can go.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zraurum.8493smoldering sigil is useless for mirage, you are supposed to reach maximum condi duration ( 100% ) without it, so taking the sigil will do nothing.as for energy, it gives extra dodge on weapon swap, extra dodge means extra axe ambush, axe ambush with IH in pve applies 18 stacks of torment, which is more damage then most if not all mesmer skills. which is why cmirage can actually do good DPS.To top it off axe ambush means 9 axes flying, ready to proc sharper immages in pve, for extra bleed damage. In pve it can still deal close to 1,5k dmg per proc, in the end axe ambush will deal close to 30k dmg, with 0,5s cast time, making it VERY good for sustained damage.

[Zraurum.8493]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@"Zraurum.8493"smoldering sigil is useless for mirage, you are supposed to reach maximum condi duration ( 100% ) without it, so taking the sigil will do nothing.as for energy, it gives extra dodge on weapon swap, extra dodge means extra axe ambush, axe ambush with IH in pve applies 18 stacks of torment, which is more damage then most if not all mesmer skills. which is why cmirage can actually do good DPS.To top it off axe ambush means 9 axes flying, ready to proc sharper immages in pve, for extra bleed damage. In pve it can still deal close to 1,5k dmg per proc, in the end axe ambush will deal close to 30k dmg, with 0,5s cast time, making it VERY good for sustained damage.

How do I achieve 100% burn time in this build ?https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Chaotic_Condition_Roamer

Now I'm even more confused, but is there any point in rearranging infusions for expertise?

And insert the sigil into the staff malice? but then you get a critical overload of torment above 100% Maybe there are still alternatives to the sigil of corruption/cleansing?

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Zraurum.8493 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Zraurum.8493smoldering sigil is useless for mirage, you are supposed to reach maximum condi duration ( 100% ) without it, so taking the sigil will do nothing.as for energy, it gives extra dodge on weapon swap, extra dodge means extra axe ambush, axe ambush with IH in pve applies 18 stacks of torment, which is more damage then most if not all mesmer skills. which is why cmirage can actually do good DPS.To top it off axe ambush means 9 axes flying, ready to proc sharper immages in pve, for extra bleed damage. In pve it can still deal close to 1,5k dmg per proc, in the end axe ambush will deal close to 30k dmg, with 0,5s cast time, making it VERY good for sustained damage.

How do I achieve 100% burn time in this build ?

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Chaotic_Condition_Roamer

Now I'm even more confused, but is there any point in rearranging infusions for expertise?

And insert the sigil into the staff malice? but then you get a critical overload of torment above 100% Maybe there are still alternatives to the sigil of corruption?

I ment for pve, for WvW I doubt there is a reason to stack condi duration, if it lasts all duration enemies die anyways.As for burning... the build you posted doesnt even use any burning. no point, only burning you get from random auto-attacks, stick to cleansing/energy

[Salt Mode.3780]

In WvW duration is most of the time meaningless because of how people can just cleanse it away. In simple terms I rather do 1k dmg total from burn for 2 seconds (for example) then do 2k dmg in burns over 5 seconds (again example) you get more value over 500 per second tick over the 400 per second tick. Expertise increases the condi dmg only because it is dragged out by duration. Condi itself grants more immediate power in dmg over the long periods of time.

Also if you want to play with burn, mesmer is not the choice for you, guardian far excels in that. IF you just want to be annoying and do meh dmg then condi mirage is the way to go for WvW anyways.And if you want to go torment/just condi straight bursts Condi rev does a much better jobIf you want to be sneaky stealth and mobile then Condi Thieves are muchhhh better at that.

[Zraurum.8493]

@Leonidrex.5649 said:

@Zraurum.8493 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@Zraurum.8493smoldering sigil is useless for mirage, you are supposed to reach maximum condi duration ( 100% ) without it, so taking the sigil will do nothing.as for energy, it gives extra dodge on weapon swap, extra dodge means extra axe ambush, axe ambush with IH in pve applies 18 stacks of torment, which is more damage then most if not all mesmer skills. which is why cmirage can actually do good DPS.To top it off axe ambush means 9 axes flying, ready to proc sharper immages in pve, for extra bleed damage. In pve it can still deal close to 1,5k dmg per proc, in the end axe ambush will deal close to 30k dmg, with 0,5s cast time, making it VERY good for sustained damage.

How do I achieve 100% burn time in this build ?

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Chaotic_Condition_Roamer

Now I'm even more confused, but is there any point in rearranging infusions for expertise?

And insert the sigil into the staff malice? but then you get a critical overload of torment above 100% Maybe there are still alternatives to the sigil of corruption?

I ment for pve, for WvW I doubt there is a reason to stack condi duration, if it lasts all duration enemies die anyways.As for burning... the build you posted doesnt even use any burning. no point, only burning you get from random auto-attacks, stick to cleansing/energy

I just wanted to put burning on the staff to increase the damage, because from the ambush 4 stacks of burning will still fall on the target, and given that burning deals damage faster than bleed, I thought of a sigil with burning