Mesmer skill rotation - Help me improve!

[Arsenal.5043]

Summary: Been away from the game since 2014. Understand most Mesmer skill basics but could use some help polishing my game.Character: Level 67 human. Running sword/sword and sword/focus.Build lines: Illusions/Dueling/Domination (soon)Utility skills: Ether Feast, Mantra of Pain, Various (Mirror Images/Portal/Mimic/Power Cleanse), Signet of Inspiration, Timewarp/Hounds

Play style: Skipping trash mobs if I'm facing multiple enemies I'll throw illusions at different targets starting with Phant Swordsman due to the 1 second casting time, then Illusionary Leap and then Mirror Images if I need more help. I try to keep them mobs close for multi-hit. If I'm fighting one big target I'll throw the illusions and then try to take a hit while Illusionary Riposte is active to buy me another close. I'll hit Mantra of Pain if it's up for more damage or a finisher.

Questions:

1. My only real use of shatter is to hit F1 for extra damage if I remember. I asked a few people in game if they use shatters other than F1 and most said no with a few saying F4 is useful as an aggro breaker. I'm a missing out on a better technique?
2. Should I be using a skill(s) which I've not listed? Suggest something, I'm interested! :)
3. Upon reading my information am I doing anything horrible wrong? If so how can I fix it?
4. Any advanced techniques I should read up on? Links are very welcome.

Thank you very much for even taking the time to read this post.

-Hot Hatch

[Noodle Ant.1605]

1. if playing power build then yes, then its f1 all the way. f4 is a free instant dodge key and f3 can interrupt uber-telegraphed attack animations. f2 you press with no clones up for pathetic but still free dmg
2. no? you use whatever skills you need to use. but i would recommend learning what each of your skills do and situations where you might want to use them. skills that might interest you is sword #2s two-in-one dmg/evade functionality and your sword autoattack (#1 skill, since you didnt mention it), its something you really shouldnt glance over on mesmer
3. youre doing nothing wrong, the levelling process is all about running a build, observing what works and what doesnt, changing/experimenting with it and comparing which is better. a big complaint at endgame is that many players copy builds/playstyles off from a site and or use guides, but dont actually know their class very well (outside what is used in the suggested build). it also helps when nerf bats come over, or you find something slightly iffy about the meta setup that you want to modify
4. try experimenting with signet of ether to refresh your phantasms right after you cast them, this ‘combo’ is a common staple for most endgame mesmer builds. id rather you ignore this next part for now, but in the end youll realise this is pretty much ‘the rotation’, something i dumb down to ‘phantspam -> autoattacks’ (ofc plus few extra inputs). doesnt apply as much if youre planning to look into (condi) mirage however

when you get to endgame stuff thats when you look at builds and guides, maybe you might actually understand whats going on since you made some effort to learn your class and may play better because of it

[Arsenal.5043]

@"Noodle Ant.1605" said:

1. if playing power build then yes, then its f1 all the way. f4 is a free instant dodge key and f3 can interrupt uber-telegraphed attack animations. f2 you press with no clones up for pathetic but still free dmg
2. no? you use whatever skills you need to use. but i would recommend learning what each of your skills do and situations where you might want to use them. skills that might interest you is sword #2s two-in-one dmg/evade functionality and your sword autoattack (#1 skill, since you didnt mention it), its something you really shouldnt glance over on mesmer
3. youre doing nothing wrong, the levelling process is all about running a build, observing what works and what doesnt, changing/experimenting with it and comparing which is better. a big complaint at endgame is that many players copy builds/playstyles off from a site and or use guides, but dont actually know their class very well (outside what is used in the suggested build). it also helps when nerf bats come over, or you find something slightly iffy about the meta setup that you want to modify
4. try experimenting with signet of ether to refresh your phantasms right after you cast them, this ‘combo’ is a common staple for most endgame mesmer builds. id rather you ignore this next part for now, but in the end youll realise this is pretty much ‘the rotation’, something i dumb down to ‘phantspam -> autoattacks’ (ofc plus few extra inputs). doesnt apply as much if youre planning to look into (condi) mirage however

when you get to endgame stuff thats when you look at builds and guides, maybe you might actually understand whats going on since you made some effort to learn your class and may play better because of it

Noodle Any thank you so much for taking some of your time to help me out. Thank you for the information on Shatters. I like free damage! Yes I use sword auto-attack in every fight where I need real damage and I try to wait until the third hit is fired so I don't interrupt the skill. Not that I knew that on my own, another nice player such as yourself helped me out. On the build thing you are accurate in that I went looking for a "good" leveling build to get me started. This post is my attempt to break the build model. I don't even know what a condi mirage is so I like your rotation. :)

Again thank you so much... although all this does is make we want to slack off work and go play. Thank you sir (or whatever)!

[Veprovina.4876]

Replace the sword/focus for a Greatsword if you're running a power build. You didn't actually say what gear stats you're using. That's kind of important info. I assume it's power based since you're using a sword.

Having a sword in both weapon slots is just added cooldowns basically, and focus is a utility weapon, it doesn't do damage a lot of damage compared to other combinations. Focus is mainly for WvW pulling players, not much use for it in PvE. Focus phantasm is ok, but Greatsword phantasm is slightly better sinceit is also an AOE attack, while focus phatnasm (i think) isn't. Focus phantasm deals more damage, but (i think), splits it between multiple targets (if it's AOE, it's been a long while since i used it). Gretsword will help you greatly to dish out more damage, and is very useful in fighting bigger enemies in groups because you're basically out of harm's way AND dealing more damage the further you are from whatever you're attacking. Especially since you can swap from sword to get new skills instead of keeping the same cooldowns on sword swap if you have a sword in the other slot as well. Meaning, you get more damage dealing skills in total, and more clone generation which is of course very helpful for shatters. Sword on itself doesn't have much clone generation, and the one it has is bugged. Domination traitline will also make greatsword even better.

That said, if you want to constantly be facing multiple enemies, you can use the focus pull to pull them all together and then do your thing. Just know that, using focus, you're one damage skill short, and when you do pull the mobs together, using only sword might not have a lot of AOE potential, though shatters will do nicely here.

When you get to higher level areas though, you might want to swap to a Greatsword anyway. The high level mobs, even the trash ones, can reeeeaaally mess you up when they're in groups, especially if you're not ready for them. Maybe not so much in core maps, but definitely in Heart of Thorns and Path of Fire. So keep that in mind.

I know you're not 80 yet, but here's what i recommend you work on.This is of course not set in stone, you can do whatever you feel like, it won't make you any less good. But since you asked for help in making you better, here's my recommendation:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAwyFlVw2YaMF2JOWLdrUA-zxQUhg3R3bQozxThIVgpB-e

This is just a general recommendation if you want to focus on dealing damage. Everything in the build is exotics, so the build is super cheap and won't take you long to make/buy the sutff should you want to go that route when you hit lvl 80. It'll deal a LOT of damage and will be viable even in expansions.

Fist, gear:Assassin's/Berserker's combo. Mesmers benefit a lot from critical because all your illusions share the crit stat, and this will allow you and your phantasms/clones to crit often. If you want to crit even more, just replace everything with Assasin's stat combinations, but you won't get that much more crit chance and will lower your power, so it's better to just have Assassin's weapons and armor and Berserker's trinkets (with Opal jewels).Base crit chance for that combo is 75% which is a lot, and with Fencer's Finesse you'll get even more temporarily in combat.

When you reach 80 you'll want to invest in runes for your armor and sigils for your weapons. I wouldn't bother with those before 80, there are some but meh, they're not really needed.

For runes, i recommend Superior Rune of the Eagle. They'll bump up your crit chance and crit damage, plus, they're relatively cheap to obtain. Not super cheap but cheaper than the alternatives. Superior Sigil of Accuracy in each main weapon (one sword only, they don't stack if you put them in both) for extra crit chance. Those are dirt cheap, you'll have no trouble buying those. This will make almost every attack crit, and when phantasms crit it can hurt. Additionally, each crit from you or your illusions will apply bleed. That's not as much damage as you'd think because this build doesn't have any condition damage bonus, but it's free damage nonetheless.

The other sigil slot i recommend Superior Sigil of Earth for extra bleed on crit. Better sigil would be Superior Sigil of Strenght so that you gain might on every crit (meaning even MORE damage), but those are expensive AF and i only recommend using them in ascended weapons when you eventially get those. For now, Earh will do. Don't put super expensive runes/sigils in exotics unless you can afford to lose them, or can take them out with gemstore items without destroying them.

Traitlines as you see from the build are the same you're using right now and Domination added which you wanted. So i'm basically just (hopefully) suggesting a build you are already going for.

As for the traits themselves, they're set up for damage, but they're not set in stone, and you can definitely play around to see what you like. You can even make multiple build templates and save them so you can switch on the fly depending on the situation. This is entirely up to you, go nuts with it, you can't really go wrong. Treat this as just an example and have fun with trying out other combinations, they all do something slightly different so yeah, experiment. The only traitline i don't recommend is Inspiration because that's a full support traitline. I use that one in WvW, but i'm also in full Minstrel's support gear so i can make use of it. You won't get much use of it with damage gear.

Utility skills are also just an example. Using Mimic to cast Phantasmal Disenchanter twice will do a lot of damage and give you 2 clones to shatter after that for more burst. WAY more than a mantra will do. When you use a mantra, you're losing out on clones to shatter, so while yes, it does damage, it's really not that great. I don't recommend Mantras, but you use whatever you want. They're sometimes useful for Stability, Daze and the like...

Furthermore Signet of Illusions will give you a clone every few seconds, plus you can use it to recharge your shatters and with all that clone generation you have, you can bump up even more clones to shatter again and again. And all of them will crit HARD. :skull: :smile:

To make use of all that clone generation, Signet of the Ether will heal you every time you summon an illusion (and for reference, an illusion refers to both clones and phantasms). So you have a nice sustained heal going all the time, with a nice "panic button" for when your health drops too low for comfort. As an added bonus, it will recharge all your phantasm skills so you can continue your relentless attack. :innocent:

If you're up against a lot of trash mobs that die easily, you can swap utiltiy skills for something more appropriate. The example i gave is for fighting tougher enemies that don't die easily.

I'll also answer your questions now:

1. For a power build yes, F1 is the key. Shatter Storm gives you double use of that, and with a lot of clone generation, you can set up a nice burst. You can even recharge the shatters as i've explained for another burst. F2 is for condition damage builds, so with a power build, don't use all your clones on that, use it without clones for extra free damage. F3 is a daze, good for interrupting an attack so it's a defensive one, as well as F4 which is kind of a "panic button", though without clones, you have to be pretty on point with its activation.
2. Well, i suggested it already in what i posted and explained why. But don't religiously cling to that. Experiment! Utility skills are exactly that - utility. You're kind of meant to change them based on what you're going to encounter. So don't be afraid to use something fitting for the situation. Not every skill will be great for every encounter.
3. Nothing wrong. It's especially good that you're leveling normally so you can get familliar with the skills and how they work. That will help you later in understanding how the profession functions. I've given you a lvl 80 example build that i think that you'll like, but as i've already explained, try different things as you go, you might have a different playstyle you'll like that's no less valid than what i made.
4. Well... Experiment. :smile: If you don't change builds too often and stick to one, you'll soon get the hang of how much are the cooldowns, which skill you need to activate first so that you get the most out of the rotation etc. For the build i wrote, i don't have a particular rotation in mind, but the playstyle is as follows - Traited for shatter storm, summon 3 clones, shatter, 3 clones again (with weapon skills in the meantime), shatter again, refresh shatters, summon clones, shatter (weapon skills in the meantime). How you'll summon clones is up to you, you have a lot of sources. Signet gives you one every few seconds, every phantasm will become a clone after its attack (and you get 2 disenchanters that deal a lot of damage each with Mimic), elite skill for quickness and even faster burst, etc. Sword 3, 4 (blocked) and 5, Greatsword 2 and 4, and Mimicked Disenchater + signet all give you clones (plus extra damage from phantasms). So you know, just spam clones and shatter them while dealing damage with weapon skills when you wait for colldowns. :smile: A little tip about phantasms - they will not shatter. So if you have 3 clones out already, you can summon a phantasm, send the clones to shatter, and when they're done, the phantasm will by then turn into a clone. :smile: So you can experiment with that, for instance, have 3 clones, use Mimic, summon Disenchater, F1, Summon disenchater again - you then already will have 2 more clones after shatter, plus probably a clone from signet, then you can already instantly shatter again. There's pretty neat combinations you can do.

And that's about it. Just have fun, and do what you feel most comfortable with. There's no "wrong" build in Story and open world. Just don't go full Minstrel's and expect damage. :wink:

[Infusion.7149]

I applaud you for leveling mesmer normally!

I would suggest using sword 2 (blurred frenzy) as it makes up a majority of power chronomancer damage so it probably makes an even greater portion of core mesmer damage while leveling. Also try to F1 shatter with 2-3 clones up since it does more damage that way.

On a phantasm heavy build using signet of the ether is far better than using ether feast. A key thing to remember is mantras can be used while using other skills.

Also while leveling I would try to use any berserker or assassin's stats that drop, avoid condition damage gear since the only time you would use conditions (namely confusion) is high attack rate bosses that don't vaporize in power damage.

A core mesmer is essentially a power boon chrono with zero boon duration and no 10% danger time bonus. The damage split for StM boon chrono is as follows:

• F1 shatter (Split second for chrono) around 20% --- ~21% of player damage for the full DPS version
• Mind spike (auto) around 15% --- ~25% of player damage for the full DPS version
• Blurred Frenzy (sword 2) around 10% --- ~15% of player damage for full DPS version
• sword auto first 2 parts around 10% (~5% each) --- ~20% of player damage for full DPS version (~10% each)
• offhand illusionary swordsman 10% --- ~23% for full DPS version probably because it attacks twice with chronophantasma
• illusionary dienchanter ~5% --- ~10% for full DPS version probably because it attacks twice with chronophantasma

The full rotation can be seen at the Tipcat channel from CnD

Recently there was a controversial video illustrating how simplified chrono "skill rotations" do damage on par with other classes' full rotations.

[Arsenal.5043]

Veprovina and Infusion I can't thank you enough for all of the good information. I have a lot reading to do that's for sure. Someone(s) asked about my gear so I threw this together real fast. All my armor is exactly the same type as the Chest piece that's displayed. Same with the jewelry. All Ruby stuff with the same upgrade.

[Veprovina.4876]

@"Arsenal.5043" said:Veprovina and Infusion I can't thank you enough for all of the good information. I have a lot reading to do that's for sure. Someone(s) asked about my gear so I threw this together real fast. All my armor is exactly the same type as the Chest piece that's displayed. Same with the jewelry. All Ruby stuff with the same upgrade.

You're welcome! :smile:

Yeah, your gear is power based, so that's fine. Rampager is kind of like Assassin's in my build but instead of Ferocity (which gives you more direct damage when you crit), it has condition damage. Which, since you're running Dueling means, more bleeding damage from crits. So it's still giving you damage, just not directly but rather from bleeding that you apply.

Also, if you want an elite specialization version of my previous build, you can go for the Chronomancer variant:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAwyFlNwcYLsNWJW6WpNVA-zxQUhg3R3bQozxThIVgpB-e

It's basically the same but there's no signet because whenever you shatter 3 clones, you get 1 automatically so no need for that as the clone generation is now implied from shatters, and you get the added benefits of wells and Alacrity (shorter skill cooldowns = use them more often). :smile:

But until you get enough hero points to unlock Chronomancer, you can use the core build just fine. :smile:

Mirage is a different beast altogether and quite more expensive to gear up, so i suggest unlcoking Chronomancer first. That way you can work on your Viper's gear slowly should you want to also have a Mirage build. You can have both btw, you have 2 equipment slots, 3 build templates and can build both versions of your Mesmer separately. :smile: Just maybe go with Chrono first. :wink:

[Nephalem.8921]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@"Arsenal.5043" said:Veprovina and Infusion I can't thank you enough for all of the good information. I have a lot reading to do that's for sure. Someone(s) asked about my gear so I threw this together real fast. All my armor is exactly the same type as the Chest piece that's displayed. Same with the jewelry. All Ruby stuff with the same upgrade.

You're welcome! :smile:

Yeah, your gear is power based, so that's fine. Rampager is kind of like Assassin's in my build but instead of Ferocity (which gives you more direct damage when you crit), it has condition damage. Which, since you're running Dueling means, more bleeding damage from crits. So it's still giving you damage, just not directly but rather from bleeding that you apply.

Also, if you want an elite specialization version of my previous build, you can go for the Chronomancer variant:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAwyFlNwcYLsNWJW6WpNVA-zxQUhg3R3bQozxThIVgpB-e

It's basically the same but there's no signet because whenever you shatter 3 clones, you get 1 automatically so no need for that as the clone generation is now implied from shatters, and you get the added benefits of wells and Alacrity (shorter skill cooldowns = use them more often). :smile:

But until you get enough hero points to unlock Chronomancer, you can use the core build just fine. :smile:

Mirage is a different beast altogether and quite more expensive to gear up, so i suggest unlcoking Chronomancer first. That way you can work on your Viper's gear slowly should you want to also have a Mirage build. You can have both btw, you have 2 equipment slots, 3 build templates and can build both versions of your Mesmer separately. :smile: Just maybe go with Chrono first. :wink:

Some problems with that. First of all sigil of accuracy is very bad on chrono. It is always weaker than force and phantasms dont benefit at all. Force, strength, bloodlust or even fire are all better. Never ever use sigil of earth in a power build. Signet of ether is also kinda build defining.Phantasmal force is also much better than master of fragmentation. it will allow you to reach 25might solo. Straight up going dmg with chronophantasma, mantra and mirror images is also better than running 2 utility wells solo.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Nephalem.8921 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@"Arsenal.5043" said:Veprovina and Infusion I can't thank you enough for all of the good information. I have a lot reading to do that's for sure. Someone(s) asked about my gear so I threw this together real fast. All my armor is exactly the same type as the Chest piece that's displayed. Same with the jewelry. All Ruby stuff with the same upgrade.

You're welcome! :smile:

Yeah, your gear is power based, so that's fine. Rampager is kind of like Assassin's in my build but instead of Ferocity (which gives you more direct damage when you crit), it has condition damage. Which, since you're running Dueling means, more bleeding damage from crits. So it's still giving you damage, just not directly but rather from bleeding that you apply.

Also, if you want an elite specialization version of my previous build, you can go for the Chronomancer variant:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAwyFlNwcYLsNWJW6WpNVA-zxQUhg3R3bQozxThIVgpB-e

It's basically the same but there's no signet because whenever you shatter 3 clones, you get 1 automatically so no need for that as the clone generation is now implied from shatters, and you get the added benefits of wells and Alacrity (shorter skill cooldowns = use them more often). :smile:

But until you get enough hero points to unlock Chronomancer, you can use the core build just fine. :smile:

Mirage is a different beast altogether and quite more expensive to gear up, so i suggest unlcoking Chronomancer first. That way you can work on your Viper's gear slowly should you want to also have a Mirage build. You can have both btw, you have 2 equipment slots, 3 build templates and can build both versions of your Mesmer separately. :smile: Just maybe go with Chrono first. :wink:

Some problems with that. First of all sigil of accuracy is very bad on chrono. It is always weaker than force and phantasms dont benefit at all. Force, strength, bloodlust or even fire are all better. Never ever use sigil of earth in a power build. Signet of ether is also kinda build defining.Phantasmal force is also much better than master of fragmentation. it will allow you to reach 25might solo. Straight up going dmg with chronophantasma, mantra and mirror images is also better than running 2 utility wells solo.

I know but this was meant to be an easy cheap and fun build focused on not overwhelming people with complex uses and might upkeep etc, but to let people who use it discover its uses further without someone outright spelling it out for them. Read my previous post on what i meant by that. OP did want to learn about the class, and won't learn anything if they just copy a build. I did say experiment with it etc. All of which i explain in my previous longer post.

I mean, sigil of force is 3g, i'm not going to recommend to OP that's around lvl 70 now to spend that much money on cramming expensive sigils into exotics. And i said that in my previous post. Never spend that much for open world build and exotics. It's just a waste of gold.

I myself use Phantasmal Force, sure, but you know... Cheap easy to understand build for open world. This isn't meant to be meta, it's meant to be a starting point for OP's own experimentation. Not raid-ready uber expensive build, i mean, OP isn't even lvl 80 yet. Let them experiment first with cheaper stuff (which, btw, is still very good in open world, i myself run a simmilar build - never had a problem running maps with it), then when they know how everything functions and have made some connections themselves, then start ascended and then more expensive stuff when they grind more gold for it.

[Arsenal.5043]

Work is crazy and I still need to catch up but I would like to commend Veprovina and Nephalem for discussing two different perspectives while still being respectful of each other. Respect.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Arsenal.5043 said:Work is crazy and I still need to catch up but I would like to commend Veprovina and Nephalem for discussing two different perspectives while still being respectful of each other. Respect.

Well @Nephalem.8921 is right, the build i gave you isn't the best it could be. But i wanted to kinda keep it open for you to discover things at your own pace without overwhelming you with complex mechanics that can be inserted there.

Plus, i needed to make it super cheap to make since i don't know how much gold you have. And while Assassin's and Berserker's isn't exactly the most cheapest thing on the Trading Post, you can level tailor to 400 and make them yourself with materials that i'm sure you already have. So it won't be a direct gold transaction. Plus, there's dungeon armor that you can get with that stats for free. There's no Assassin's combination in dungeon armor, but you can farm Citadel of flame or something for tokens, then just swap armor and trinkets. Get Berserker's armor with Assassin's trinkets, or go full Berserker's for less crit chance, won't really matter for open world.

And the set will last you a long time, once you have it, there's not much you can upgrade on it besides going either full ascended Berserker's or simmilar.