Suggestion: Elementalist complete rework

[Touchme.1097]

Elementalist is one of those professions that are hard to learn and depend heavily on attunements instead of weapon swaps, this can result on technical difficulties in applying CC especially for the weaver specialization which relies on swapping attunements costantly to deal dps and having a CC ready to use at the right time in a short time window can feel like the stars aligned in your favour.

In order to make Elementalist more user friendly and keep the canonic mechanics that made the profession fun to play I came up with a solution.

 

Grant as many attunements as many elements chosen in the build template.

 

This change will definitely bring an increase in diversity where Elementalists will be able to focus on 2 or more elements, simplifying the rotation and add more utility putting it in line with other professions relying on weapon swap.

 

Players used to the old mechanics won't notice a big difference because they would have two attunements worth of skills for each weapon swap, which are just as many as the classic Elementalist that could only use one weapon back in the days.

This change will allow core Ele the unique ability to play 3 attunements per weapon swap (6 bars worth of skills) and Elite Specializations the ability to focus on 2 attunements focusing not only on DPS but also on utility and a more reliable CC.

Another point in the profession's favour can be the inclusion of Alacrity in order to allow this profession to compete with the current Meta and to bring more diversity where this boon is only available for a very strict number of builds, one example is how Alacrigade could provide permanent Alacrity to a 10 man squad and the boon could be made baseline as utility. Alacrity is very important for Elementalists and it's a vital boon on a Weaver's rotation.

 

Another addition to my suggestion would be the introduction of the Arcane attunement, the very force that shapes magic can bring new useful skills to those who attune to the arcane opening also the patch to new elite profession specializations, like Arcane Mages.

 

Please let me know what you think about this idea, be polite and don't be afraid of asking more questions.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Touchme.1097

[Razor.6392]

Quote

In order to make Elementalist more user friendly

Stopped reading here. What is it with you people trying to change THE ONE CLASS THAT IS DIFFERENT, so that it plays more like every single other class?

 

Just go play other classes.

[Kodama.6453]

In general, I like the idea since restricts elementalists in their attunement choices.

 

I think a big problem for balancing elementalist in general is that all builds always have access to literally everything you could possibly want in a build.

Group heaing? Swap to water magic.

Condi damage? Swap to fire or earth magic.

Power damage? Swap to fire or air magic.

CC? Swap to earth or air magic.

 

And so on.

An elementalist currently is absolutely disabled from excluding stuff from their builds. They always have everything by default.

Restricting their attunement with such a system would enable them to make choices and trade offs. I want to be a damage dealer? Then I invest in fire and air/earth magic, but forego water magic, since I don't want to heal my allies anyway.

 

The only thing in your idea which seems heavily unrealistic is applying this system to Arcane magic as well....

Creating a new arcane attunement would require an absolute enormous amount of work, I don't think that Anet is willing to sink so many resources in reworking the core class.

To give an overview of what Anet would have to create for a new arcane attunement:

• 25 new weapon skills (5 for staff, 3 for MH dagger/scepter/sword each, 2 for OH dagger/focus/warhorn each, 5 for trident) + additional arcane weapon skills for the next upcoming elite spec
• 30 new dual wield skills for weaver (6 dual wield skills per MH weapon (staff/scepter/dagger/sword/trident))
• new effects for every glyph
• new effect for swap to arcane

 

There is probably more stuff they would have to do to make an arcane attunement work.

 

Also, do I understand you correctly that elementalists would gain the ability to weapon swap? Because I personally think that they should still not be able to even with this rework....

[Josspai.4356]

Ok I'm just saying this from a casual (although veteran) point of view, but being able to control all 4 elements is actually what makes the elementalist my favorite profession. If I suddenly couldn't use one or even more of them, it would feel butchered to me. I'm not saying your idea is bad, but I think it works better as an Elite Specialization: once you equip that Elite, you are specialized in two of the 4 elements (the ones whose specializations you equip) and then you get weapon swap to compensate for the skill loss. This way you can give the 'specialized mage' experience to those who want it, while not taking away the 'avatar feeling' from other players (just my two cents).

[Touchme.1097]

10 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

The only thing in your idea which seems heavily unrealistic is applying this system to Arcane magic as well....

Creating a new arcane attunement would require an absolute enormous amount of work, I don't think that Anet is willing to sink so many resources in reworking the core class.

To give an overview of what Anet would have to create for a new arcane attunement:

• 25 new weapon skills (5 for staff, 3 for MH dagger/scepter/sword each, 2 for OH dagger/focus/warhorn each, 5 for trident) + additional arcane weapon skills for the next upcoming elite spec
• 30 new dual wield skills for weaver (6 dual wield skills per MH weapon (staff/scepter/dagger/sword/trident))
• new effects for every glyph
• new effect for swap to arcane

 

There is probably more stuff they would have to do to make an arcane attunement work.

 

Also, do I understand you correctly that elementalists would gain the ability to weapon swap? Because I personally think that they should still not be able to even with this rework....

I understand your concern, but only a developer can really answer your question about the possibility of translating my suggestion into code. This is something I look forward to reading as well.

Why do you think weapon swap would be a bad idea on Elementalist? I mean, you can already swap weapons out of combat, just not in combat as it is right now.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, Touchme.1097 said:

I understand your concern, but only a developer can really answer your question about the possibility of translating my suggestion into code. This is something I look forward to reading as well.

Why do you think weapon swap would be a bad idea on Elementalist? I mean, you can already swap weapons out of combat, just not in combat as it is right now.

Elementalist already has the highest skill count in the game. You want to make it even higher with the arcane attunement.

 

Then elementalist is also the class with the highest number of available in combat skills. If you give them weapon swap, as you have noted, this would make elementalist have even more skills in combat, with core elementalist having access to 6 different weapon sets.

 

This is just way too much and the opposite of what I think elementalist needs. It should get restrictions, become simpler. Not even more complicated in it's rotation and even more skills to use. 

[Touchme.1097]

2 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Elementalist already has the highest skill count in the game. You want to make it even higher with the arcane attunement.

 

Then elementalist is also the class with the highest number of available in combat skills. If you give them weapon swap, as you have noted, this would make elementalist have even more skills in combat, with core elementalist having access to 6 different weapon sets.

 

This is just way too much and the opposite of what I think elementalist needs. It should get restrictions, become simpler. Not even more complicated in it's rotation and even more skills to use. 

On this we agree, I just feel bad when I read negative feedbacks about my suggestion on simplifying Elementalist's rotation with less attunements. I know it wouldn't affect the damage and what's most important it would be playable by a bigger pool of players.

[Razor.6392]

15 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

On this we agree, I just feel bad when I read negative feedbacks about my suggestion on simplifying Elementalist's rotation with less attunements. I know it wouldn't affect the damage and what's most important it would be playable by a bigger pool of players.

They can still play ele. You just need a little more practice. It's fun to learn - just because the class can't succeed by pressing "1" does it mean that it's flawed.

 

So many people want things handed in a silver platter, it's kinda sad tbh.

[steki.1478]

On 5/13/2021 at 10:15 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

Elementalist already has the highest skill count in the game. You want to make it even higher with the arcane attunement.

 

Then elementalist is also the class with the highest number of available in combat skills. If you give them weapon swap, as you have noted, this would make elementalist have even more skills in combat, with core elementalist having access to 6 different weapon sets.

 

This is just way too much and the opposite of what I think elementalist needs. It should get restrictions, become simpler. Not even more complicated in it's rotation and even more skills to use. 

New attunement would still have less skills available than weaver.

[Kodama.6453]

27 minutes ago, steki.1478 said:

New attunement would still have less skills available than weaver.

Edit: misunderstood your point.

 

Yes, weaver has more skills available. But I think the huge amount of skills on ele in general is a design failure and that it leads to many balancing problems for the class.

 

Hence why I advocate for the class to become more restricted. I don't think we should restrict it and then once again make it more complicated again by adding another arcane attunement,

Edited May 14, 2021 by Kodama.6453

[Touchme.1097]

On 5/14/2021 at 1:26 AM, Razor.6392 said:

They can still play ele. You just need a little more practice. It's fun to learn - just because the class can't succeed by pressing "1" does it mean that it's flawed.

 

So many people want things handed in a silver platter, it's kinda sad tbh.

This is not relevant to the topic, I don't agree with your sentence that people want things handed in a silver platter and every challenges the profession mechanics provide can be solved by practicing more. 

You are ignoring the facts that some professions can provide better DPS and more boons than others by design and it's not the player's fault if Ele has less utility and DPS than other professions.

You are ignoring the fact that Elementalist presents real mechanical challenges to average players who are attuning to less elements to simplifying the complex rotation sacrificing part of the DPS the build is capable of (for example attuning only to fire or only fire/earth for condi weaver and fire/air for power builds).

You are not taking into account the lack of utility Elementalist presents right now compared to the Meta.

My suggestion is aiming to solve all of these issues without dumbing down the profession too much by taking away only 1 attunement from core Ele, introducing new skills and more diversity with the Arcane attunement.

The only thing we can agree to is that players will have to get used to how the mechanics of the reworked Elementalist work, there will always be people expressing negative feedbacks, it's impossible to make everyone happy but it's certainly possible to improve a profession with a rework.

Edited May 15, 2021 by Touchme.1097

[Razor.6392]

11 hours ago, Touchme.1097 said:

This is not relevant to the topic, I don't agree with your sentence that people want things handed in a silver platter and every challenges the profession mechanics provide can be solved by practicing more. 

You are ignoring the facts that some professions can provide better DPS and more boons than others by design and it's not the player's fault if Ele has less utility and DPS than other professions.

You are ignoring the fact that Elementalist presents real mechanical challenges to average players who are attuning to less elements to simplifying the complex rotation sacrificing part of the DPS the build is capable of (for example attuning only to fire or only fire/earth for condi weaver and fire/air for power builds).

You are not taking into account the lack of utility Elementalist presents right now compared to the Meta.

My suggestion is aiming to solve all of these issues without dumbing down the profession too much by taking away only 1 attunement from core Ele, introducing new skills and more diversity with the Arcane attunement.

The only thing we can agree to is that players will have to get used to how the mechanics of the reworked Elementalist work, there will always be people expressing negative feedbacks, it's impossible to make everyone happy but it's certainly possible to improve a profession with a rework.

What will happen here is that luckily your suggestion will be ignored just like they have ignored all of us.

 

The majority of your post you spend talking about high end play and "the meta" to justify your rework, when most of these issues are a matter of numerical tweaks and reverting nerfs. Do you even play a elementalist? I wanna see how many hours you got with yours, because no one that has stuck with ele for this long would suddenly feel like everything needs to be revamped, especially with "new players" in mind.

 

https://i.gyazo.com/3b611074b48d785587ff5eddfd42355d.png

Go on, show yours bro.