Condition Druid performance in WvW

[Widmo.3186]

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

You have right, this kind of skill shouldn't be available for Druid. But it is ok for the Elementalist (1 person), using Staff>Meteor Shower from 1200 range to do so much damage, that can down 5 ppl in just 2-3 seconds. (was just an example)

 

 So, what are you saying? Even with his "shouldn't exist trait" Druid is easy to beat on most builds? .... I don't get it, what are you complain about? Or maybe you are asking Anet to delete this trait but give Druid other buffs so he can be the one who can beat easily an Elementalist on most builds? I doubt, because if this will happen, you'll come here again an you'll ask to nerf Druid, who knows maybe you will ask to give him back the Ancient Sees. "Something is rotten in the State of Denmark".

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

Ancient Seeds is zero if you have in your group an Guardian or Elementalist.

Druid is not support, was when the specialization was released, now Elementalist, Guardian or Engineer are way much better. 

Druid is just a troll class, nothing more. I am talking about WvW and sPVP, not PVE.

 

10 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

Every class has a specialization/build who can be as troll. And among Ranger, Engineer, Thief , Necro have troll builds. 

So it's not something new.

Youre such a funny guy. Lets begin with your example, Meteor Shower. You know how many times that skill was nerfed? And what is its state right now? I thought that Im stuck at 2012 because I have fun outplaying ppl on d/d core ele, but looks like theres always a bigger fish. Really bad example, especially that skill provides only damage that is one of the easiest to be seen animations in the game, you must equip one of the most nerfed weapons in the game and you also must channel that skill (is that WoW yet?)

Another thing, you think that the only reason anyone should ask for change or deletion of skill/trait is because its OP and makes that class unbeatable? Thats mentality of 12 years old kid, if you feel like something is unhealthy, toxic and obnoxious then thats enough to state that its bad. You can have example of DE stealth on dodge trait. You think that the class was so good in sPvP when it was released that they needed to nerf it? Ofc not, but still it was nerfed because it was disgusting and handicapped.

You want someone to run all the time with his guardian angel called support guard or ele? Mhm, well, expectable. Considering that in current year most ladies wont go anywhere from spawn without at least couple of friends, half of them being supports, because they cant do much by themselves only.

And at last troll build. Yes, you admit that its a troll build. So instead of considering changing it into healthy, idk lets say support class (as it was when released) you want it to stay as troll build which neither deals damage, nor heals, but instead creates toxic (t r o l l) environment by spamming roots. Yes, that explains much.

 

 

5 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

You can make a Druid tanky with strong self survivability, but it can't kill anything. If you engage other roamers who are actually good, you can survive as Druid but you can't kill it. If you are tanky in a zerg you can survive, but you deal very little damage and your entire role is to assist stronger classes with immob spam.

Basically this. Idk why some people add depth to this class, defend toxic (yes, toxic, just as old mezmer daze trait which was nerfed, difference is that mezmer was actually doing something in addition to this trait) gameplay. Ive even met people that say its skillful class, that putting roots is mechanical and druid is difficult to play. Its a moving circus of spamming vines, no matter if as a class its good or bad, I dont see a problem with changing it into a support comparable with tempest or guardian. But I see a problem with defending disgusting traits.
https://imgur.com/NZruXws
One day people gonna try to imply that walking is a difficult task, solely made for skilled ppl

Edited June 3, 2021 by Widmo.3186

[Lazze.9870]

10 hours ago, LilBiM.3581 said:

 

At no stage did I intonate that any class should or should not have 2s Daze durations. I did say that the ability to chain many of those dazes along with immob is unreasonable. In PvP/WvW the focus should be put on players using those skills to interrupt or to cancel important opponent skills rather than to straight up chain daze as if it was a part of a regular skill rotation.

 

You literally said "I would recommend that Daze be toned down on Druid", you didn't say anything about chaining skills until later. Most people would interpret that as asking for nerfs to the daze durations on Lunar Impact and/or Glyph of Equality, not as a complaint about being able to chain SB#5 and Lunar Impact. Ranger isn't the only class that can chain two CC skills with a bit of immob added to it.

 

Ancient Seeds is the problem. There is nothing more to add to that conversation.

Edited June 3, 2021 by Lazze.9870

[lodjur.1284]

27 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

You literally said "I would recommend that Daze be toned down on Druid", you didn't say anything about chaining skills until later. Most people would interpret that as asking for nerfs to the daze durations on Lunar Impact and/or Glyph of Equality, not as a complaint about being able to chain SB#5 and Lunar Impact. Ranger isn't the only class that can chain two CC skills with a bit of immob added to it.

Ye chaining hard CC is imo dumb, but it's not exactly unique to Druid, every class needs their CC tuned down, but Druid is far from the worst offender and that debate is probably for another thread. 

27 minutes ago, Lazze.9870 said:

Ancient Seeds is the problem. There is nothing more to add to that conversation.

Yes. Very much this.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Let druids have their seeds. 

 

Just give my warrior some CC dmg back to compensate for it. Uuuhh and give something to the other classes to. Yeah. Better buff than nerf tbh. 

 

😈

[anduriell.6280]

You  lucky at least warrior didn-t get the damage reduced to 0 in an skill which is not a CC like the first part of Path_of_Scars . Also warrior can use  Body Blow to apply some bleeds when applying CC. So it is not like you can not deal damage anymore. 

[Grand Marshal.4098]

50 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You  lucky at least warrior didn-t get the damage reduced to 0 in an skill which is not a CC like the first part of Path_of_Scars . Also warrior can use  Body Blow to apply some bleeds when applying CC. So it is not like you can not deal damage anymore. 

I will digress, but building a condi warrior with body blow in mind, is 10 times less reliable that condi druid lmao

Edited June 3, 2021 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

8 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Youre such a funny guy. Lets begin with your example, Meteor Shower. You know how many times that skill was nerfed? And what is its state right now? I thought that Im stuck at 2012 because I have fun outplaying ppl on d/d core ele, but looks like theres always a bigger fish. Really bad example, especially that skill provides only damage that is one of the easiest to be seen animations in the game, you must equip one of the most nerfed weapons in the game and you also must channel that skill (is that WoW yet?)

First of all, I am older than you. 

Second, if you read carefully the context you can see that the discussion was about Druid and his group vs another group. And the main issue of lodjur was that the Druid is staying behind from 1200 range and is using his staff for immobilize and roots:

 

"However in say a 2v1 or just adding onto an already 10v4 or whatever, the fact that 1 person doing nothing but staff 11111111 from 1200 range with several mobility skills/stealth ready (ie you cant focus them) becomes possibly the biggest issue you have is kinda, disturbing."

 

My answer was that there are other classes as Elementalist who is doing the same thing. Not all builds, but staff one. He is staying behind his friends and is using Meteor Shower. With glass build you can do 4.5-5.5k damage per/player!!! Yes, Meteor Shower can be easily seen, but the same is with skill Vine Surge, Druid skill, you can dodge it easily. BUT! , because it is a but, when you are engaged into a fight X vs X players, it is hard to see Meteor Shower or Vine Surge, you will see them, but only when it is too late.

 

8 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

Another thing, you think that the only reason anyone should ask for change or deletion of skill/trait is because its OP and makes that class unbeatable? Thats mentality of 12 years old kid, if you feel like something is unhealthy, toxic and obnoxious then thats enough to state that its bad. You can have example of DE stealth on dodge trait. You think that the class was so good in sPvP when it was released that they needed to nerf it? Ofc not, but still it was nerfed because it was disgusting and handicapped.

 

lol, you are talking nonsense here. What do you mean DE stealth on dodge trait was nerfed because it was "disgusting and hadicapped?", your words btw. What means for you stealth thing is disgusting? Are you joking or what? The Reason to nerf something is exact because that skill was somehow from some ppl perspective too tricky and annoying and hard to fight against which =  OP, or too strong etc. Are you a child or what? How can you say that a skill was nerfed/delete just because you considered that skill disgusting? or handicapped (again your word)? A skill get a nerf when that skill doesn't work properly and give a bigger advantage to a class, more than was intended. It is not about the ppl taste how animation look, or  things like these.

I didn't see in my entire life a comment from a dev saying "the skill X was nerfed because was disgusting and hadicapped"! Every time a dev said "the skill X was nerfed because was too powerful, trigger something which shouldn't, because it mechanic trouble some other things etc ..."

 

8 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

You want someone to run all the time with his guardian angel called support guard or ele? Mhm, well, expectable. Considering that in current year most ladies wont go anywhere from spawn without at least couple of friends, half of them being supports, because they cant do much by themselves only.

 I am talking about real things are happening in WvW. When you want to roam with a group if you want to be successful you are going with special composition of your group. If not, then go glass cannon, or without enough cleanse and you will die. Our entire discussion, I mean my and lodjur was based of group fights, he was saying that specific group fight is annoying because of Druid root and multiple CC from other ppl from his group.

Ofc it is up to you if you want to run all 3-5 ppl of you full dps vs a compact group with a healer/support these days. You will be amazed how a Firebrand + 2 Necro can beat a group of 5-6 players with Ranger, Warrior etc ... Anyway, I don't know if you are really playing WvW or you are just that kind of player who argue only from books.

 

8 hours ago, Widmo.3186 said:

And at last troll build. Yes, you admit that its a troll build. So instead of considering changing it into healthy, idk lets say support class (as it was when released) you want it to stay as troll build which neither deals damage, nor heals, but instead creates toxic (t r o l l) environment by spamming roots. Yes, that explains much.

 

On the first page of this post you said:

Widmo.3186 said:

"Like cmon, druid is just an useless class that spams immobilize, if you take Ancient Seeds its gonna be also useless class but without spamming immobilize. Thats all this class does, i dont see what "condi" part has to deal with it.

You can read that post with or w/o sarcasm, I dont really care. Personally Id love this trait to be deleted tho, so I can save my muscle energy from not rolling my eyes everytime I see a moving circus that neither deals damage, nor provides support, just spams roots. Actually I admire ppl that play it, reminds me that humans can see fun in everything, even watching paint dry."

 

So, you want to delete a skill, just to save your muscle energy, even that skill doesn't make that class OP. Just because you don't like it. Nice way to think!!! (please read above about what developer are doing).

 

From my POV a troll build is a build who can't be easily killed, who has many chances of survivability, and makes the enemies to put a large/huge effort to kill/catch him.

Every class has some kind of troll build, and this is good, because in a game you need diversity if you want ppl to play that game for a long-long time. I don't know if it is any MMO who doesn't have troll builds.

And from my POV I want a troll build instead of an OP build. But it is my opinion and my desire.

 

Have a good day!

Edited June 3, 2021 by Dragonzhunter.8506

[lodjur.1284]

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

First of all, I am older than you. 

Strange brag

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

Second, if you read carefully the context you can see that the discussion was about Druid and his group vs another group. And the main issue of lodjur was that the Druid is staying behind from 1200 range and is using his staff for immobilize and roots:

 

"However in say a 2v1 or just adding onto an already 10v4 or whatever, the fact that 1 person doing nothing but staff 11111111 from 1200 range with several mobility skills/stealth ready (ie you cant focus them) becomes possibly the biggest issue you have is kinda, disturbing."

 

My answer was that there are other classes as Elementalist who is doing the same thing. Not all builds, but staff one. He is staying behind his friends and is using Meteor Shower. With glass build you can do 4.5-5.5k damage per/player!!! Yes, Meteor Shower can be easily seen, but the same is with skill Vine Surge, Druid skill, you can dodge it easily. BUT! , because it is a but, when you are engaged into a fight X vs X players, it is hard to see Meteor Shower or Vine Surge, you will see them, but only when it is too late.

Vine Surge clearly isn't an issue.

 

Ancient Seeds is the only problem.

 

Meteor Shower should imo get nerfed but wrong time and place for that discussion. 

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

 

lol, you are talking nonsense here. What do you mean DE stealth on dodge trait was nerfed because it was "disgusting and hadicapped?", your words btw. What means for you stealth thing is disgusting? Are you joking or what? The Reason to nerf something is exact because that skill was somehow from some ppl perspective too tricky and annoying and hard to fight against which =  OP, or too strong etc. Are you a child or what? How can you say that a skill was nerfed/delete just because you considered that skill disgusting? or handicapped (again your word)? A skill get a nerf when that skill doesn't work properly and give a bigger advantage to a class, more than was intended. It is not about the ppl taste how animation look, or  things like these.

I didn't see in my entire life a comment from a dev saying "the skill X was nerfed because was disgusting and hadicapped"! Every time a dev said "the skill X was nerfed because was too powerful, trigger something which shouldn't, because it mechanic trouble some other things etc ..."

Some mechanics are just bad irrelevant of their power.

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

 I am talking about real things are happening in WvW. When you want to roam with a group if you want to be successful you are going with special composition of your group. If not, then go glass cannon, or without enough cleanse and you will die. Our entire discussion, I mean my and lodjur was based of group fights, he was saying that specific group fight is annoying because of Druid root and multiple CC from other ppl from his group.

Please don't bring me into your delusions.

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

Ofc it is up to you if you want to run all 3-5 ppl of you full dps vs a compact group with a healer/support these days. You will be amazed how a Firebrand + 2 Necro can beat a group of 5-6 players with Ranger, Warrior etc ... Anyway, I don't know if you are really playing WvW or you are just that kind of player who argue only from books.

 

Firebrand+necro, are we in 2018?

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

On the first page of this post you said:

Widmo.3186 said:

"Like cmon, druid is just an useless class that spams immobilize, if you take Ancient Seeds its gonna be also useless class but without spamming immobilize. Thats all this class does, i dont see what "condi" part has to deal with it.

You can read that post with or w/o sarcasm, I dont really care. Personally Id love this trait to be deleted tho, so I can save my muscle energy from not rolling my eyes everytime I see a moving circus that neither deals damage, nor provides support, just spams roots. Actually I admire ppl that play it, reminds me that humans can see fun in everything, even watching paint dry."

 

So, you want to delete a skill, just to save your muscle energy, even that skill doesn't make that class OP. Just because you don't like it. Nice way to think!!! (please read above about what developer are doing).

I want it deleted because every fight it appears in becomes fully centered on not getting stuck in an immobilize and nothing else just because someone with 3 defensive utility skills is spamming a non-projectile auto at me from 1200 range.

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

From my POV a troll build is a build who can't be easily killed, who has many chances of survivability, and makes the enemies to put a large/huge effort to kill/catch him.

Every class has some kind of troll build, and this is good, because in a game you need diversity if you want ppl to play that game for a long-long time. I don't know if it is any MMO who doesn't have troll builds.

Troll builds are bad for a game. Stuff like ancient Seeds, deadeye, fa etc don't add to the game, they make it worse.

13 hours ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

And from my POV I want a troll build instead of an OP build. But it is my opinion and my desire.

 

Have a good day!

Then it's likely your presence in WvW makes the gamemode worse. 

 

If your only objective is to annoy people, not actually achieve anything or even fights....

[Dragonzhunter.8506]

39 minutes ago, lodjur.1284 said:

Strange brag

Vine Surge clearly isn't an issue.

 

Ancient Seeds is the only problem.

 

Meteor Shower should imo get nerfed but wrong time and place for that discussion. 

Some mechanics are just bad irrelevant of their power.

Please don't bring me into your delusions.

Firebrand+necro, are we in 2018?

I want it deleted because every fight it appears in becomes fully centered on not getting stuck in an immobilize and nothing else just because someone with 3 defensive utility skills is spamming a non-projectile auto at me from 1200 range.

Troll builds are bad for a game. Stuff like ancient Seeds, deadeye, fa etc don't add to the game, they make it worse.

Then it's likely your presence in WvW makes the gamemode worse. 

 

If your only objective is to annoy people, not actually achieve anything or even fights....

You don't know anything, your answers are the proof. You are wasting my time.

You don't deserve my attention.

After you will learn something about this game, come and talk to me, until then, plimba ursul 🙂 

[lodjur.1284]

32 minutes ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

You don't know anything, your answers are the proof. You are wasting my time.

You don't deserve my attention.

After you will learn something about this game, come and talk to me, until then,

Ye I mean obviously not. Guess you are older so I should respect my elders

32 minutes ago, Dragonzhunter.8506 said:

plimba ursul 🙂 

Does this really mean "walk the bear" cause that's amazing if that's the case?

Edited June 4, 2021 by lodjur.1284