Opinions on Mirage Now?

[Cyninja.2954]

@apharma.3741 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

You can say what you will about Mag, but at the end of the day Mag has more skill than any other server on NA.

You should practice more with Mirage to make it work.

As I said, it works in an unorganized cloud of roamers that scatter whenever a comped group comes through. It doesn't work with or against a comped group.

I disagree with the statement that it doesn't work against a comped group. I've been regularly using Mirage against comped groups. You have to time your skills well but it just takes practice and experience and of course a bit of skill.

Anyway, as I said earlier, Mirage has both the mobility and defensive skills to land bombs in even dangerous situations. If you mindlessly blow a 20k bomb on some random cluster in a zerg when your zerg has no followup to any downs that you create then you are simply wasting your skills. Knowing the flow of the fight will dictate when damage should be focused and the best time to launch.

Are there better classes to bring to a comped group? Very likely yes. But as a rando that tags along with comped groups and who has the versatility to pick on the sides or bomb front/backlines I normally have no problem contributing clusters of downs. IMO Mirage excels at this.

I wouldn't say comp'd group when referring to them because their "comp'd group" is them with 49 of their closest friends.......

All your bringing to the table is basically stating that random WvW players on US servers are less competent than on EU servers.

While that might be the case, in normal WvW groups on EU there is a certain meta amd class selection which gets run (and people adapted within 1 week post PoF launch).

This has nothing to do with friends or guild groups. When the evening WvW 50 man is 10 guardians, 10 spellbreakers, 10 scourge/reapers, 10 elementalists/tempest and a couple of random engis and druids, that's people adapting to a new meta.

I'm sorry for you that US WvW players take WvW less serious. On EU there is server dedicated voicecomms even for pug groups.

On German hive mind servers you don’t even get the random players from what I’ve seen, it’s all scourge, SB, FB and a few eles. I have such a love/hate relationship with those servers, I’m always impressed by the community and hive mind they seem to project as a server having scouts in all important towers and blob response 99% of the time. However they are so incredibly boring to “fight” due to it being under siege and at their towers a lot of the time and they will bail if a T3 looks too much of a challenge to Ktrain somewhere else.

Absolutely, it has it's ups and downs.

From what I have seen, or at least in the matchup I play, there is a general understanding when 2 commanders fight in open world, no siege is droped.

This goes so far that most commanders will move away if randoms drop siege, which in turn has reduced the amount of random siege droped by like 90%.

[Hackuuna.4085]

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

You can say what you will about Mag, but at the end of the day Mag has more skill than any other server on NA.

You should practice more with Mirage to make it work.

As I said, it works in an unorganized cloud of roamers that scatter whenever a comped group comes through. It doesn't work with or against a comped group.

If you mindlessly blow a 20k bomb on some random cluster in a zerg when your zerg has no followup to any downs that you create then you are simply wasting your skills.

Implying that mirage can produce a 20k bomb into a group...

Yeah, that's not a thing.

Both condi and zerk variants can produce those numbers. The condi obviously takes a few ticks to reach 20k damage but you can land a lethal dose of condis on 5 people within a single bomb.

Split Surge alone can produce 20k or more on 1-3 targets depending on your positioning and the density of your targets. Add in some wonderful multi clone shatter with a Jaunt, prestige, mirror images, and GS 3 and you are pushing high numbers to a small area.

[Pyroatheist.9031]

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

You can say what you will about Mag, but at the end of the day Mag has more skill than any other server on NA.

You should practice more with Mirage to make it work.

As I said, it works in an unorganized cloud of roamers that scatter whenever a comped group comes through. It doesn't work with or against a comped group.

If you mindlessly blow a 20k bomb on some random cluster in a zerg when your zerg has no followup to any downs that you create then you are simply wasting your skills.

Implying that mirage can produce a 20k bomb into a group...

Yeah, that's not a thing.

Both condi and zerk variants can produce those numbers. The condi obviously takes a few ticks to reach 20k damage but you can land a lethal dose of condis on 5 people within a single bomb.

Split Surge alone can produce 20k or more on 1-3 targets depending on your positioning and the density of your targets. Add in some wonderful multi clone shatter with a Jaunt, prestige, mirror images, and GS 3 and you are pushing high numbers to a small area.

Wow, you must have learned a radical new kind of math to produce those numbers! The rest of the world works in a fairly standard base 10 number system though, so lets do some math with that.

Lets say that you're a full zerker GS mirage using a force sigil, scholar runes, full bloodlust stacks, full might stacks, and a magical 100% crit chance. You magically also always gain the full bonuses of superiority complex and fencer's finesse. With all of this you have 3793 power and 260.33% critical damage. Lets also assume that your target magically has 25 stacks of vulnerability.

Split Surge has a 1.35 damage coefficient. Scholar runes provide 1.1, force sigil provides 1.05, vulnerability provides 1.375. Additionally, your target is a light armor class with zero additional toughness and zero damage reduction of any sort.

3793 1155 1.35 1.1 1.05 1.375 2.6033 * 1/1967 = 12430 damage

Huh, how about that. Even with literally every single possible damage modifier against the squishiest possible target in the game you're not dealing 20k damage to a target with split surge. Now, lets retool this calculation to be less idiotic. Now you're wearing full marauder's gear, you get no stacks of fencer's finesse, you have 15 stacks of might, your target has 10 stacks of vuln, and they have both 2500 armor and protection.

3260 1155 1.35 1.1 1.05 1.15 2.2853 1/2500 .67 = 4135 damage

Well now, that's a far cry from your mythical 20k damage. Realistically that's what your situation is going to look like, best case scenario. Often you won't even get the full bonus from superiority complex, your scholar runes will drop off, or your target might not even have any vulnerability at all. Sometimes they'll be running a food like mussels gnashblade for even more damage reduction, or frost armor will be up, or they'll just be a tankier target with more armor. On top of all that, this is damage to 4 people maximum in a small (240 radius) aoe that requires you to be within 1200 range and have a valid target. And so...we come back to my original point:

Implying that mirage can produce a 20k bomb into a group...

Yeah, that's not a thing.

[Jinks.2057]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

You can say what you will about Mag, but at the end of the day Mag has more skill than any other server on NA.

You should practice more with Mirage to make it work.

As I said, it works in an unorganized cloud of roamers that scatter whenever a comped group comes through. It doesn't work with or against a comped group.

I disagree with the statement that it doesn't work against a comped group. I've been regularly using Mirage against comped groups. You have to time your skills well but it just takes practice and experience and of course a bit of skill.

Anyway, as I said earlier, Mirage has both the mobility and defensive skills to land bombs in even dangerous situations. If you mindlessly blow a 20k bomb on some random cluster in a zerg when your zerg has no followup to any downs that you create then you are simply wasting your skills. Knowing the flow of the fight will dictate when damage should be focused and the best time to launch.

Are there better classes to bring to a comped group? Very likely yes. But as a rando that tags along with comped groups and who has the versatility to pick on the sides or bomb front/backlines I normally have no problem contributing clusters of downs. IMO Mirage excels at this.

I wouldn't say comp'd group when referring to them because their "comp'd group" is them with 49 of their closest friends.......

All your bringing to the table is basically stating that random WvW players on US servers are less competent than on EU servers.

While that might be the case, in normal WvW groups on EU there is a certain meta amd class selection which gets run (and people adapted within 1 week post PoF launch).

This has nothing to do with friends or guild groups. When the evening WvW 50 man is 10 guardians, 10 spellbreakers, 10 scourge/reapers, 10 elementalists/tempest and a couple of random engis and druids, that's people adapting to a new meta.

I'm sorry for you that US WvW players take WvW less serious. On EU there is server dedicated voicecomms even for pug groups.

WvW as a serious game mode died in 2013/early 2014

I'm sorry it's taken you this long to figure it out.

Was I the one who started bringing up how amazing Mag is as an argument? Not sure I was.

Doesn't change the fact that there seems to be a disparity between NA and EU players going by what people have been saying about the WvW meta.

Mag only wants to fight not play ppt.

Running around with 49 of your closest bro's isn't wanting to fight but win PPT.

[Hackuuna.4085]

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

You can say what you will about Mag, but at the end of the day Mag has more skill than any other server on NA.

You should practice more with Mirage to make it work.

As I said, it works in an unorganized cloud of roamers that scatter whenever a comped group comes through. It doesn't work with or against a comped group.

If you mindlessly blow a 20k bomb on some random cluster in a zerg when your zerg has no followup to any downs that you create then you are simply wasting your skills.

Implying that mirage can produce a 20k bomb into a group...

Yeah, that's not a thing.

Both condi and zerk variants can produce those numbers. The condi obviously takes a few ticks to reach 20k damage but you can land a lethal dose of condis on 5 people within a single bomb.

Split Surge alone can produce 20k or more on 1-3 targets depending on your positioning and the density of your targets. Add in some wonderful multi clone shatter with a Jaunt, prestige, mirror images, and GS 3 and you are pushing high numbers to a small area.

Wow, you must have learned a radical new kind of math to produce those numbers! The rest of the world works in a fairly standard base 10 number system though, so lets do some math with that.

Lets say that you're a full zerker GS mirage using a force sigil, scholar runes, full bloodlust stacks, full might stacks, and a magical 100% crit chance. You magically also always gain the full bonuses of superiority complex and fencer's finesse. With all of this you have 3793 power and 260.33% critical damage. Lets also assume that your target magically has 25 stacks of vulnerability.

Split Surge has a 1.35 damage coefficient. Scholar runes provide 1.1, force sigil provides 1.05, vulnerability provides 1.375. Additionally, your target is a light armor class with zero additional toughness and zero damage reduction of any sort.

3793

1155

1.35

1.1

1.05

1.375

2.6033 * 1/1967 = 12430 damage

Huh, how about that. Even with literally every single possible damage modifier against the squishiest possible target in the game you're not dealing 20k damage to a target with split surge. Now, lets retool this calculation to be less idiotic. Now you're wearing full marauder's gear, you get no stacks of fencer's finesse, you have 15 stacks of might, your target has 10 stacks of vuln, and they have both 2500 armor and protection.

3260

1155

1.35

1.1

1.05

1.15

2.2853

1/2500

.67 = 4135 damage

Well now, that's a far cry from your mythical 20k damage. Realistically that's what your situation is going to look like, best case scenario. Often you won't even get the full bonus from superiority complex, your scholar runes will drop off, or your target might not even have any vulnerability at all. Sometimes they'll be running a food like mussels gnashblade for even more damage reduction, or frost armor will be up, or they'll just be a tankier target with more armor. On top of all that, this is damage to 4 people maximum in a small (240 radius) aoe that requires you to be within 1200 range and have a valid target. And so...we come back to my original point:

Implying that mirage can produce a 20k bomb into a group...

Yeah, that's not a thing.

You've clearly not being experimenting with Mirage the way I have. If you had you would know that Split surge beams are each capable of hitting 3 targets along their path. Like I said above, if the targets have a certain density and you position yourself correctly you will land 3x3 split surge hits on at least one person. You will also have 25 might at the end of the surge along with significant stacks of vuln on the targets.

On the glassier side of the spectrum I'm regularly hitting 6-7k surges if only one beam hits (a full glass target usually takes around 8-9k). In a zerg situation it is highly probably that you can position yourself to land a near optimal split surge. Not only that, you are opening with a 3 clone mind wrack, Mind stab, and Prestige. With traits you are also capable of following up with several split surges while being invuln or evading. You can also choose to open with a 2 clone Cry/Jaunt followed by a 3 clone Mirror/Jaunt Wrack.

As I said in my original post in this thread: it is absolutely viable in zerg play but requires some skill and timing and is capable of significant AoE damage. There's nothing "mythical" about this, only a gamer who takes the time to actually test the functionality of the game before passing judgement on what is viable or not viable. I highly recommend you do the same instead of tossing out personal insults.

[Azukas.1426]

Welp I've made a new thread https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/15291/its-as-i-feared

Mesmer is now OP in all aspects of the game & needs to be nerfed. I was afraid this would happen after the latest balance patch & it seems I was right. Please use that new thread to post in.

Can we shut this down now?

[OriOri.8724]

LOL! Typical Azukas, you couldn't fool anyone in this thread, so you ask for it to be closed and try to move to a different thread in a hope that people forget the ridiculous statements you made without any facts backing them up.

Go on! I'm still waiting to hear what you, you personally, felt needed to be nerfed on Mirage prior to this patch. And what needs to be nerfed afterwards.

[Azukas.1426]

@OriOri.8724 said:LOL! Typical Azukas, you couldn't fool anyone in this thread, so you ask for it to be closed and try to move to a different thread in a hope that people forget the ridiculous statements you made without any facts backing them up.

Go on! I'm still waiting to hear what you, you personally, felt needed to be nerfed on Mirage prior to this patch. And what needs to be nerfed afterwards.

Actually my statements are being proven to be true.

42k DPS PvE buildCondi Mirage is OP in PvP

These are facts and this thread is being asked to be closed b/c now we have to shift the discussion from "What do you think now after I told you all to wait and see" to "Now its time to Nerf Us b/c we are OP again"

Perfectly legit progression of a discussion

[musu.9205]

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Jinks.2057 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:In WvW It's even stronger than I imagined. High skill required prevents it from performing well for most in my observation.

Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Lol.

Can you be more obvious that you are on a low pop server or very inactive wvw matchup? Mesmer and mirage even more so brings NOTHING to zerg fights besides portal and veil.

Chrono is a pure support boon provider in large scale.

You must not have fought in any organised or even semi decent zerg.

I hate linking to metabattle, but it's the only site which is big enough and offering wvw build ratings. Mirage is no where among any of the zerg builds. If anything semi decent had come up, it be there in some form or another.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Mesmer

No one is debating that mirage is strong in 1v1 and small scale, but please stop this wvw zerg nonsens. Yes you survive a lot, and while doing so you will be utterly useless to your team.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Hackuuna.4085 said:Contrary to what is being said here it is extremely effective in zerg fights, medium fights, small fights, and solo.

Yeah, no it's not. It's great in small fights like mesmer always has been. It's decent in medium fights (5-10 people per side) as a pick/havoc squad participant. It's absolute trash in zerg fights due to almost all of the damage being tethered to projectiles, target locked abilities, and single target trash.

Agreed.

For the record I play on Maguuma and have been mostly playing against BG where there is no shortage of zerg fights. Mirage has significant access to AoE burst and mobility, both of which are very important in creating downs in large scale. The plethora of defensive skills and elusiveness of Mirage makes it ideal at the role. Of course there are useless builds and useless weaponsets for large scale, but the same can be said for any class.

Sure, it works in a mag cloud of roamers that scatter like roaches when a comped group comes through, but it's not useful in said comped group.

You can say what you will about Mag, but at the end of the day Mag has more skill than any other server on NA.

You should practice more with Mirage to make it work.

As I said, it works in an unorganized cloud of roamers that scatter whenever a comped group comes through. It doesn't work with or against a comped group.

If you mindlessly blow a 20k bomb on some random cluster in a zerg when your zerg has no followup to any downs that you create then you are simply wasting your skills.

Implying that mirage can produce a 20k bomb into a group...

Yeah, that's not a thing.

Both condi and zerk variants can produce those numbers. The condi obviously takes a few ticks to reach 20k damage but you can land a lethal dose of condis on 5 people within a single bomb.

Split Surge alone can produce 20k or more on 1-3 targets depending on your positioning and the density of your targets. Add in some wonderful multi clone shatter with a Jaunt, prestige, mirror images, and GS 3 and you are pushing high numbers to a small area.

Wow, you must have learned a radical new kind of math to produce those numbers! The rest of the world works in a fairly standard base 10 number system though, so lets do some math with that.

Lets say that you're a full zerker GS mirage using a force sigil, scholar runes, full bloodlust stacks, full might stacks, and a magical 100% crit chance. You magically also always gain the full bonuses of superiority complex and fencer's finesse. With all of this you have 3793 power and 260.33% critical damage. Lets also assume that your target magically has 25 stacks of vulnerability.

Split Surge has a 1.35 damage coefficient. Scholar runes provide 1.1, force sigil provides 1.05, vulnerability provides 1.375. Additionally, your target is a light armor class with zero additional toughness and zero damage reduction of any sort.

3793

1155

1.35

1.1

1.05

1.375

2.6033 * 1/1967 = 12430 damage

Huh, how about that. Even with literally every single possible damage modifier against the squishiest possible target in the game you're not dealing 20k damage to a target with split surge. Now, lets retool this calculation to be less idiotic. Now you're wearing full marauder's gear, you get no stacks of fencer's finesse, you have 15 stacks of might, your target has 10 stacks of vuln, and they have both 2500 armor and protection.

3260

1155

1.35

1.1

1.05

1.15

2.2853

1/2500

.67 = 4135 damage

Well now, that's a far cry from your mythical 20k damage. Realistically that's what your situation is going to look like, best case scenario. Often you won't even get the full bonus from superiority complex, your scholar runes will drop off, or your target might not even have any vulnerability at all. Sometimes they'll be running a food like mussels gnashblade for even more damage reduction, or frost armor will be up, or they'll just be a tankier target with more armor. On top of all that, this is damage to 4 people maximum in a small (240 radius) aoe that requires you to be within 1200 range and have a valid target. And so...we come back to my original point:

Implying that mirage can produce a 20k bomb into a group...

Yeah, that's not a thing.

You've clearly not being experimenting with Mirage the way I have. If you had you would know that Split surge beams are each capable of hitting 3 targets along their path. Like I said above, if the targets have a certain density and you position yourself correctly you will land 3x3 split surge hits on at least one person. You will also have 25 might at the end of the surge along with significant stacks of vuln on the targets.

On the glassier side of the spectrum I'm regularly hitting 6-7k surges if only one beam hits (a full glass target usually takes around 8-9k). In a zerg situation it is highly probably that you can position yourself to land a near optimal split surge. Not only that, you are opening with a 3 clone mind wrack, Mind stab, and Prestige. With traits you are also capable of following up with several split surges while being invuln or evading. You can also choose to open with a 2 clone Cry/Jaunt followed by a 3 clone Mirror/Jaunt Wrack.

As I said in my original post in this thread: it is absolutely viable in zerg play but requires some skill and timing and is capable of significant AoE damage. There's nothing "mythical" about this, only a gamer who takes the time to actually test the functionality of the game before passing judgement on what is viable or not viable. I highly recommend you do the same instead of tossing out personal insults.

i tested this , well the number looks good if it happens to hit same person .but it's far from reliable . clone usually will target random stuff if you generate clone from anything but weapon skill .and you have to pray that 3 split surge actually hit somewhere near your target . it has litttle to do with your position .

it could be fun gimmick in a 10 man group . but i don't see how it can be good comparing to staff weaver and hammer rev .

[FaboBabo.3581]

@Azukas.1426 said:Actually my statements are being proven to be true.42k DPS PvE buildCondi Mirage is OP in PvP

1. Bug
2. GitGud

[Crossaber.8934]

It is even more annoying than a skilled thief now, top tier mobility, top tier condi damage, top tier tankyness, all in one good hand.But it is also easy to separate the huge skill differences between good and bad mirage.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Crossaber.8934 said:It is even more annoying than a skilled thief now, top tier mobility, top tier condi damage, top tier tankyness, all in one good hand.But it is also easy to separate the huge skill differences between good and bad mirage.

Well DD just did eat an evasion nerf.

Pretty sure mirage will see some rebalance (bug fix) if only to get pve damage a bit more in line.

[Levetty.1279]

@Azukas.1426 said:"Now its time to Nerf Us b/c we are OP again"

Oh I agree that thiefs should be nerfed. Not sure why you are making a thread about it on the Mesmer forum though.

[OriOri.8724]

@Azukas.1426 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:LOL! Typical Azukas, you couldn't fool anyone in this thread, so you ask for it to be closed and try to move to a different thread in a hope that people forget the ridiculous statements you made without any facts backing them up.

Go on! I'm still waiting to hear what you, you personally, felt needed to be nerfed on Mirage prior to this patch. And what needs to be nerfed afterwards.

Actually my statements are being proven to be true.

42k DPS PvE buildCondi Mirage is OP in PvP

These are facts and this thread is being asked to be closed b/c now we have to shift the discussion from "What do you think now after I told you all to wait and see" to "Now its time to Nerf Us b/c we are OP again"

Perfectly legit progression of a discussion

You still have yet to identify a single aspect of Mirage pre patch that needed to be nerfed. You cannot use post patch changes as arguments for why you were so adamant that it needed to be nerfed before the patch ever entered the game. One would think that such logic was readily available to people who are old enough to use the internet.

[Sojourner.4621]

@Levetty.1279 said:

@Azukas.1426 said:"Now its time to Nerf Us b/c we are OP again"

Oh I agree that thiefs should be nerfed. Not sure why you are making a thread about it on the Mesmer forum though.

Thief already got nerfed... twice with this balance patch and it is the absolute worst performing elite spec of all nine new ones, and now a lower performing elite spec than eight of the nine old ones. But no, is still OP... sure... keep believing that.

[Sojourner.4621]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Azukas.1426 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:LOL! Typical Azukas, you couldn't fool anyone in this thread, so you ask for it to be closed and try to move to a different thread in a hope that people forget the ridiculous statements you made without any facts backing them up.

Go on! I'm still waiting to hear what you, you personally, felt needed to be nerfed on Mirage prior to this patch. And what needs to be nerfed afterwards.

Actually my statements are being proven to be true.

42k DPS PvE buildCondi Mirage is OP in PvP

These are facts and this thread is being asked to be closed b/c now we have to shift the discussion from "What do you think now after I told you all to wait and see" to "Now its time to Nerf Us b/c we are OP again"

Perfectly legit progression of a discussion

You still have yet to identify a single aspect of Mirage pre patch that needed to be nerfed. You cannot use post patch changes as arguments for why you were so adamant that it needed to be nerfed before the patch ever entered the game. One would think that such logic was readily available to people who are old enough to use the internet.

The patch mostly only fixed bugs with the mesmers axe skills and were NOT buffs. If they had been working as intended and as the skill descriptions described from the beginning, technically it would have needed nerfed from launch.

[OriOri.8724]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Azukas.1426 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:LOL! Typical Azukas, you couldn't fool anyone in this thread, so you ask for it to be closed and try to move to a different thread in a hope that people forget the ridiculous statements you made without any facts backing them up.

Go on! I'm still waiting to hear what you, you personally, felt needed to be nerfed on Mirage prior to this patch. And what needs to be nerfed afterwards.

Actually my statements are being proven to be true.

42k DPS PvE buildCondi Mirage is OP in PvP

These are facts and this thread is being asked to be closed b/c now we have to shift the discussion from "What do you think now after I told you all to wait and see" to "Now its time to Nerf Us b/c we are OP again"

Perfectly legit progression of a discussion

You still have yet to identify a single aspect of Mirage pre patch that needed to be nerfed. You cannot use post patch changes as arguments for why you were so adamant that it needed to be nerfed before the patch ever entered the game. One would think that such logic was readily available to people who are old enough to use the internet.

The patch mostly only fixed bugs with the mesmers axe skills and were NOT buffs. If they had been working as intended and as the skill descriptions described from the beginning, technically it would have needed nerfed from launch.

Let's see. Lowering aftercast on Axe 2, increasing the damage on imaginary axes by 20%, increasing stacks of confusion on imaginary axes, increasing damage on phantasmal seeking/spinning axe by 33%, increasing torment duration on phantasmal spinning axe. Yea, those weren't buffs at all, how silly of me.

[Cyninja.2954]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Azukas.1426 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:LOL! Typical Azukas, you couldn't fool anyone in this thread, so you ask for it to be closed and try to move to a different thread in a hope that people forget the ridiculous statements you made without any facts backing them up.

Go on! I'm still waiting to hear what you, you personally, felt needed to be nerfed on Mirage prior to this patch. And what needs to be nerfed afterwards.

Actually my statements are being proven to be true.

42k DPS PvE buildCondi Mirage is OP in PvP

These are facts and this thread is being asked to be closed b/c now we have to shift the discussion from "What do you think now after I told you all to wait and see" to "Now its time to Nerf Us b/c we are OP again"

Perfectly legit progression of a discussion

You still have yet to identify a single aspect of Mirage pre patch that needed to be nerfed. You cannot use post patch changes as arguments for why you were so adamant that it needed to be nerfed before the patch ever entered the game. One would think that such logic was readily available to people who are old enough to use the internet.

The patch mostly only fixed bugs with the mesmers axe skills and were NOT buffs. If they had been working as intended and as the skill descriptions described from the beginning, technically it would have needed nerfed from launch.

Let's see. Lowering aftercast on Axe 2, increasing the damage on imaginary axes by 20%, increasing stacks of confusion on imaginary axes, increasing damage on phantasmal seeking/spinning axe by 33%, increasing torment duration on phantasmal spinning axe. Yea, those weren't buffs at all, how silly of me.

I was confused about this statement too.

The patchnotes are on these very forums. My only explanation is: since the patch summary says:"focused on mirage and fixing some bugs", a lazy person who didn't bother with reading the detailed changes might have missed the significant amount of damage buffs we received.

Also Ori you missed one:"This skill no longer requires you to face your target." for Imaginary Axes, while not a direct numeric value change, is a damage increase since it makes activating the skill easier and removes the necessity to face the target for both pve and pvp.

[OriOri.8724]

I did forget that, you're right.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

Today's mesmer update is focused around the Mirage's Axe. We've cleaned up several bugs and animation hang-ups that could cause the weapon to feel less smooth than intended. Additionally, we are adding camera refocusing to skills that shadowstep you to points around your target. These skills will attempt to face your camera behind your character after the shadowstep occurs so that it's easier to keep focus on your target.

Mirage: Added new UI effects to indicate when Mirage Cloak is active.

Skills

Axe Autoattack: Fixed a bug that could cause skills used in the middle of the attack sequence to have a noticeable delay before activating.

Lingering Thoughts: Lowered aftercast by 0.1 second. Fixed a bug that caused this skill to show an incorrect casting time. Added a 0.25-second recharge between uses of this skill to prevent accidental double use.

Axes of Symmetry: This skill will now rotate the camera to face your target after the shadowstep. This skill now performs a range check before casting. Shortened maximum distance to target after shadowstep by 20%.

Illusionary Ambush: Increased Mirage Cloak duration to 1 second to be consistent with other skills. This skill now takes into account your currently wielded weapon when determining maximum shadowstep distance from the target. Updated minimum and maximum distances from target for random shadowstep calculations. This skill will now rotate the camera to face your target after the shadowstep.

Imaginary Axes: Increased seek distance for the follow-up attack by 20%. Increased stacks of confusion for the player version of this skill from 1 to 2 (clones still apply 1 stack). Increased damage by 20%. This skill no longer requires you to face your target.

Phantasmal Berserker: Reduced casting time from 1 second to 0.75 seconds.

Chaos Vortex: Increased projectile speed by 25%. Increased projectile damage by 20%. Removed confusion and torment conditions. This skill now inflicts bleeding (2 stacks for 6 seconds), burning (1 stack for 3 seconds), and vulnerability (3 stacks for 5 seconds).

Jaunt: Fixed a bug that prevented this skill from being recognized as an elite skill for the purposes of some rune effects.

Traits

Mirrored Axes: Fixed a bug that prevented clones from generating the bonus axe.

Phantasmal Seeking Axe: Increased seek distance for the follow-up attack by 20%. Increased damage by 33%. Reduced angle variance.

Phantasmal Spinning Axe: Increased torment duration from 2 seconds to 3 seconds. Increased damage by 33%.

Sand Shards: Fixed the incorrect skill facts to show the actual value of 3 stacks of bleeding for 4 seconds.

Desert Distortion: Fixed a bug that prevented mirrors from spawning if Distortion was activated while jumping.

Axe 2 now has a .25 recast timer inbetween uses which makes it feel Clunkier than before, other than that I'm happy with the changes and have been having a blast playing mirage. IMO the people saying that mirage is broken, doesn't work, etc. really need more time with the spec to understand how to play it. Mirage isn't a shatter based elite ( Anets own words ) so don't expect it to synergize well with shatter builds in general ( unlike Chrono / core mesmer ). Furthermore, just because you have shatter skills doesn't mean that you're suppose to pump out clones / phantasms and shatter them immediately as your primary source of damage. Think outside the box, there's plenty of traits that complement a clone / phantasms build and work extremely well with Mirage Axe ( other than the clunky animations / pathing issues ). It really boils down to playstle / preference and mirage supports clone / phantasms more than any other spec.

[OriOri.8724]

Everyone saying axe 2 is clunkier than before. Its only 0.15 seconds more between casts now. Remember, the aftercast delay was also lowered by .1 seconds on Axe 2. So even though before, you could immediately queue up the second round of Axe 2, you were waiting .1 seconds longer before it would start than you currently can, because of hte longer aftercast. So its only .15 seconds slower. Clunkier? Yea technically. Enough to make a difference? Not one bit.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

it's .25 not .15 and yes it's very noticeable when you're use to double tapping axe 2 to set up for axe 3 which only uses axe clones. I find myself standing still in melee range when engaging opponents awkwardly before the skill excutes which is why it feels so clunky now.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

@OriOri.8724 said:Everyone saying axe 2 is clunkier than before. Its only 0.15 seconds more between casts now. Remember, the aftercast delay was also lowered by .1 seconds on Axe 2. So even though before, you could immediately queue up the second round of Axe 2, you were waiting .1 seconds longer before it would start than you currently can, because of hte longer aftercast. So its only .15 seconds slower. Clunkier? Yea technically. Enough to make a difference? Not one bit.

Lingering Thoughts: Lowered aftercast by 0.1 second. Fixed a bug that caused this skill to show an incorrect casting time. Added a 0.25-second recharge between uses of this skill to prevent accidental double use.

^ They added a .25 recharge to PREVENT recast when most people using it properly were actually casting twice on purpose.

[OriOri.8724]

Mesmer has tools to generate 3 clones nearly instantly without needing to spam an ammo based skill. MI will get 2 axe clones out. DE will get a clone out as soon as you dodge, and works with IH if you want to run that. Self Deception will get a clone out on using a deception skill. its not like this was the only way to get axe clones out, yet a lot of people are treating it like that

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

@OriOri.8724 said:Mesmer has tools to generate 3 clones nearly instantly without needing to spam an ammo based skill. MI will get 2 axe clones out. DE will get a clone out as soon as you dodge, and works with IH if you want to run that. Self Deception will get a clone out on using a deception skill. its not like this was the only way to get axe clones out, yet a lot of people are treating it like that

Because a lot of people don't run any of those traits or skills. The only one I use out of that list is DE and wasting a dodge while in melee range to generate another axe clone seems like a waste to me unless I plan on following up with an ambush. I may need that dodge to mitigate damage / evade an attack from my opponent.