when does Sadistic searing proc burning

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

according to the description in trait it says 

Quote

Punishment skills gain reduced recharge and cause your next Manifest Sand Shade to inflict burning on foes near it.

the trait doesn't have icd

 

my question is... will it cause burn on manifest shade casted after using punishment skill? or for every manifest sand shade?

 

if it procs burning for every manifest sand shade, why the description says "next manifest sand shade" instead of "every manifest sand shade"? 

or.. it doesnt proc burn for every shade?

 

 

any necro expert? clarify this for me plizzz

Edited July 16, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Faolain.2374]

5 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

according to the description in trait it says 

the trait doesn't have icd

 

my question is... will it cause burn on manifest shade casted after using punishment skill? or for every manifest sand shade?

 

if it procs burning for every manifest sand shade, why the description says "next manifest sand shade" instead of "every manifest sand shade"? 

or.. it doesnt proc burn for every shade?

 

 

any necro expert? clarify this for me plizzz

You gain a green icon/buff on your boon bar thingy after using a punishment skills. After this the next time you place a shade and it hits something, it applies the burning. If you don’t hit anything with the placement of the new shade the buff remains until you do hit something with f1. But to clarify it only applies burning on F1, and not any of the F2-F5 skills 🙂 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

48 minutes ago, Faolain.2374 said:

You gain a green icon/buff on your boon bar thingy after using a punishment skills. After this the next time you place a shade and it hits something, it applies the burning. If you don’t hit anything with the placement of the new shade the buff remains until you do hit something with f1. But to clarify it only applies burning on F1, and not any of the F2-F5 skills 🙂 

thank you so much...

 

now another question that is based on the first question...

the optimal build for scourge in snowcrows use only one punishment skill.. and with teh trait, it is available only after 20 secs...

the trait applies 2500 burn for ~ 6 secs

but if we choose harbinger shroud trait instead, it applies ~14k torment for 16 secs on a 17 sec cd skill ie f5....

snowcrows suggest sadistic searing instead of harbinger shroud... so... im confused.... harbing shroud is better right? or am i missing something?

 

or the alacrity buff from others reduce punisment skill cd but alacrity doesnt reduce cd on f5 skill ?

 

or the normal deser shroud pulses 7 times and repeats the 2k torment over 16 secs x times 7?

ie ~ 14k torment(improved by bursting sigils) over 112 secs once the normal desert shroud completes its pulses?(does the pulse work that way? or.. idk)

 

clarify plizzzzz 🤯

Edited July 16, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Faolain.2374]

5 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

thank you so much...

 

now another question that is based on the first question...

the optimal build for scourge in snowcrows use only one punishment skill.. and with teh trait, it is available only after 20 secs...

the trait applies 2500 burn for ~ 6 secs

but if we choose harbinger shroud trait instead, it applies ~14k torment for 16 secs on a 17 sec cd skill ie f5....

snowcrows suggest sadistic searing instead of harbinger shroud... so... im confused.... harbing shroud is better right? or am i missing something?

Can’t answer that one sorry 😂 I only play wvw but from what I’ve heard the SnowCrows people generally know what they’re doing so I’m sure there’s a reason for it 

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

Hope some other necromancer Expert in forum can clarify this for me 🥺

[Dadnir.5038]

26 minutes ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

thank you so much...

 

now another question that is based on the first question...

the optimal build for scourge in snowcrows use only one punishment skill.. and with teh trait, it is available only after 20 secs...

the trait applies 2500 burn for ~ 6 secs

but if we choose harbinger shroud trait instead, it applies ~14k torment for 16 secs on a 17 sec cd skill ie f5....

snowcrows suggest sadistic searing instead of harbinger shroud... so... im confused.... harbing shroud is better right? or am i missing something?

 

or the alacrity buff from others reduce punisment skill cd but alacrity doesnt reduce cd on f5 skill ?

 

In PvE, harbinger shroud  (740 base power damage/6 stacks of torment/3s shroud -> unsafe margin for Soul barb) don't give you more damage than the default desert shroud (840 base power damage/7 stacks of torment/6s shroud -> safe margin for soul barb) so this trait choice is less interesting than a CD reduction on punishments and a burn every 16s (Alacrity is considered a given in organized groups).

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

10 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

 

In PvE, harbinger shroud  (740 base power damage/6 stacks of torment/3s shroud -> unsafe margin for Soul barb) don't give you more damage than the default desert shroud (840 base power damage/7 stacks of torment/6s shroud -> safe margin for soul barb) so this trait choice is less interesting than a CD reduction on punishments and a burn every 16s (Alacrity is considered a given in organized groups).

so 7 pulses mean, 7 times the power damage mentioned in the skill and 7 stacks of tormment mentioned in the skill ? just making sure

 

after gearing the character.. it says desert shroud: (x7) 1820 dmg.. does this mean 1820 * 7 ? ie for every pulse it does 1820  dmg?

 

 

thanks for clarifying the difference..

Edited July 16, 2021 by Crystal Paladin.3871

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, Crystal Paladin.3871 said:

so 7 pulses mean, 7 times the power damage mentioned in the skill and 7 stacks of tormment mentioned in the skill ? just making sure

 

after gearing the character.. it says desert shroud: (x7) 1820 dmg.. does this mean 1820 * 7 ? ie for every pulse it does 1820  dmg?

 

 

thanks for clarifying the difference..

 

Nope, it doesn't mean 7 times the power damage.

 

To tell the truth, it's a bit complicated because the skills tooltips aren't all standardized on this side. However, taking the ranger as example:

- If the tooltip say: Damage (5x): 1330 it mean that 1330 damage are spread over 5 pulses of 266 damage. (ex: Frost trap)

- If the tooltip say: Damage per pulse: 80 and state 5 pulses it mean that 400 damage are spread over 5 pulse of 80 damage (ex: Fire trap)

 

For Desert shroud, the tooltip clearly say: Damage (7x): 840 so it mean that 840 damage are spread over 7 pulses of 120 damage.

Edited July 16, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[KrHome.1920]

Desert shroud is a 7 second damage over time effect, that if you can apply all the damage of its whole duration (easy in pve) deals more damage than harbinger shroud.

Harbinger shroud is one big nuke 3 seconds after it has been casted, that grants additional barrier and corrupts boons.

 

Since more damage is better in a dps build, you don't want to use harbinger shroud in such a build.

Harbinger shroud is better in support builds for the additional barrier and its double trigger of abrasive grit (might and cleanse support for your team) with one skill usage.

 

For the competitive modes it depends. The corrupt, barrier and one hit mechanic of harbinger shroud is potentially strong, but also has a high telegraph (easy to dodge) for your encounter, which sees that skill coming 3 seconds in advance.

 

Side Note: The strike damage tool tip of either desert shroud or harbinger shroud seems broken. I haven't done the math yet which one is, but obviously relative to each other they do not reflect the actual damage difference.

 

Edited July 16, 2021 by KrHome.1920

[Asum.4960]

Desert Shroud applies 1 Torment on Activation + 6 Pulses for 7 total Torment. 

For Habinger Shroud, Anet presumably forgot that pulsing skills activate a pulse on activation as well and only looked at the 6 second duration and 1 second ICD and gave it only 6 total Torment, making it actually weaker/less damage than Desert Shroud, with the added benefit of a Barrier Detonation and Boon Corruption. 

Additionally, since Soul Barbs got changed to affecting Condition Damage as well, Desert Shroud provides 16 seconds Soul Barbs uptime per activation and Harbinger Shroud only 13 seconds due to "exiting" Shroud sooner - meaning that with Alacrity, Desert Shroud provides permanent Soul Barbs while Harbinger Shroud does not.

 

That is why Harbinger Shroud is not recommended for DPS. 

 

As for Sadistic Searing, it's not taken for a DPS increase, but simply because there are no good choices for that slot. 

Harbinger Shroud, as stated above is a DPS loss and Desert Empowerment, while an option for the very minor Utility of extra Barrier, doesn't really add anything to organized groups with dedicated supports, while Sadistic Searing can slightly make up for the DPS loss of casting Sand Flare if needed. 

It's simply the least bad for the slot, DPS wise.

 

And yes, it applies a (non-stackable) buff that applies a single stack of Burning after using a Punishment Skill upon the next placement of a Shade within a 10 second window... which is a lot of complication for nothing.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Asum.4960