I know this sounds very unlikely and wild but here's a theory that just came up in my mind randomly — Guild Wars 2 Forums
Home Lore

I know this sounds very unlikely and wild but here's a theory that just came up in my mind randomly

Cynder.2509Cynder.2509 Member ✭✭✭✭

Maybe Balthazar wasn’t evil like we thought because maybe he saw how bad it was to gift magic upon the races of planet Thyria, especially humans, like Abaddon did. Maybe He understood why Abaddon wanted to take this gift back.
I have this own headcanon that Abaddon knew of everything that will happen in the future but when he gifted the world magic he didn’t quite realize because his heart was too good and later when he saw what harm it caused he wanted to take it back. And because of this, because Abaddon was misunderstood, the other Gods cursed him and so he turned under painful circumstances into the very being we fought in Nightfall.
Later Balthazar realized this too and because he rebelled and thought that humanity is better off dead for what harm they’ve caused he was exiled too.
I also have this theory that the Elder Dragons were once created as guardians to Thyria and its magic but later they became corrupted by an unknown evil. The fact that Kralkatorrik said to Aurene that he never wishes for her to kill anyithing she loves shows that Elder Dragons are capable of emotions and the concept of love. Also in the end Kralk’s last words were “Mother...” which leads to a greater mystery and the fact that even Elder Dragons recognize their family.
My theory:
Zhaitan became evil because he knew he was the weakest of his bretheren and he feared that. Zhaitan was relatively small compared to the others and he feared that. Zhaitan couldn’t even speak aside from his servants because he wasn’t strong enough. Zhaitans fear drove him mad and caused him to be evil.
Mordremoth slumbered but he was still stronger than Zhaitan because he was more gifted. He was originally the keeper of Life, Preservation and Mind. However everything changed because his pride and greediness corrupted the once Elder Keper of Life when he noticed that his brother Zhiatan, the Keeper of Death and Shadow was slain. At first the Jungle Dragon denied it but then he realized that even Elder Dragons are mortals. A bit of fear but mostly his pride and hunger for more power drove him more and more mad.
We know that Kralkatorrik was around for longer than them and he caused havoc far before these two. It’s simply because Elder Dragons are forces of nature and guardiand to the elements and magic flow of the planet. After all it is simply in their nature to dominate and to protect. However Kralkatorrik was gifted with seeing into the future and he was also the Keeper of Crystal/Beauty and Fury. However he knew that his own blood will be his weakness and he feared betrayal deeply. Once his visions had overcome him he became mad and it turned his keeper likeness into evil. But fear not, his gift as an augur sprung over to his child Glint and later to Aurene. In fact Kralkatorrik cared deeply for his offsprings and that’s why he passed his leftover sane wisdom on to Glint and Aurene. Later on Kralkatorrik’s agony after he consumed too much magic corrupted him even more and crazed him absolutely. However after the Commander and Aurene granted him salvation he passed on all of his wisdom to Aurene and the lesson that Aurene should “never kill what she loves” which means that Aurene should never succumb to corruption and never hurt what she has sworn to protect.
Anyways there’s also Primordus of which we don’t know much as of the other dragons but I guess that his gluttony and wrath have driven him mad.
Now there’s Jormag, the keeper of Illusion and Ice. Jormag also had the gift of visions but with the side effect of altering it. We still don’t know much about the real Jormag but I believe they are aware of their weaknesses and Thyria’s future and they really want to change something but there’s also that urge for manipulation and dominance.The keeper of Ice and Pursuation is also known for inheritenting Lust as they can seduce others easily. We still don’t know how much Jormag has been corrupted and if maybe Jormag has cured their corruption a bit already. The dragon seems too self aware but maybe this is all a trick. We’ll never know. However I think Jormag is the most conflicted Elder Dragon of them all.
Now on to the Ocean Elder Dragon... we truly don’t know anything about it but I believe it’s connected to Kuunuvang and that Kuunu is its champion but the ocean dragon has good intentions and actually wants to preserve and protect life on the planet. “Mortals are little flames. Brilliant hot, then gone...” either Kuun or the sea dragon said this but if the sea dragon said it it’s clear that the dragon knows that even the Elders are mortal and can go out like flames at any moment. But it could also refer to that the dragon realizes that anything on Thyria is mortal, fragile and deserves to be protected. Maybe the dragon observed the other actions of its relatives and wants to truly change something. Maybe it is the only dragon untouched from corruption.
However know let’s assume that Kunnuvang said this trying to convince the ocean dragon to be good and to cure the corruption among dragons. Anyways, I think it will still be the same. Only time will tell.

Comments

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Maybe Balthazar wasn’t evil like we thought because maybe he saw how bad it was to gift magic upon the races of planet Thyria, especially humans, like Abaddon did. Maybe He understood why Abaddon wanted to take this gift back.
    I have this own headcanon that Abaddon knew of everything that will happen in the future but when he gifted the world magic he didn’t quite realize because his heart was too good and later when he saw what harm it caused he wanted to take it back. And because of this, because Abaddon was misunderstood, the other Gods cursed him and so he turned under painful circumstances into the very being we fought in Nightfall.
    Later Balthazar realized this too and because he rebelled and thought that humanity is better off dead for what harm they’ve caused he was exiled too.
    I also have this theory that the Elder Dragons were once created as guardians to Thyria and its magic but later they became corrupted by an unknown evil. The fact that Kralkatorrik said to Aurene that he never wishes for her to kill anyithing she loves shows that Elder Dragons are capable of emotions and the concept of love. Also in the end Kralk’s last words were “Mother...” which leads to a greater mystery and the fact that even Elder Dragons recognize their family.
    My theory:
    Zhaitan became evil because he knew he was the weakest of his bretheren and he feared that. Zhaitan was relatively small compared to the others and he feared that. Zhaitan couldn’t even speak aside from his servants because he wasn’t strong enough. Zhaitans fear drove him mad and caused him to be evil.
    Mordremoth slumbered but he was still stronger than Zhaitan because he was more gifted. He was originally the keeper of Life, Preservation and Mind. However everything changed because his pride and greediness corrupted the once Elder Keper of Life when he noticed that his brother Zhiatan, the Keeper of Death and Shadow was slain. At first the Jungle Dragon denied it but then he realized that even Elder Dragons are mortals. A bit of fear but mostly his pride and hunger for more power drove him more and more mad.
    We know that Kralkatorrik was around for longer than them and he caused havoc far before these two. It’s simply because Elder Dragons are forces of nature and guardiand to the elements and magic flow of the planet. After all it is simply in their nature to dominate and to protect. However Kralkatorrik was gifted with seeing into the future and he was also the Keeper of Crystal/Beauty and Fury. However he knew that his own blood will be his weakness and he feared betrayal deeply. Once his visions had overcome him he became mad and it turned his keeper likeness into evil. But fear not, his gift as an augur sprung over to his child Glint and later to Aurene. In fact Kralkatorrik cared deeply for his offsprings and that’s why he passed his leftover sane wisdom on to Glint and Aurene. Later on Kralkatorrik’s agony after he consumed too much magic corrupted him even more and crazed him absolutely. However after the Commander and Aurene granted him salvation he passed on all of his wisdom to Aurene and the lesson that Aurene should “never kill what she loves” which means that Aurene should never succumb to corruption and never hurt what she has sworn to protect.
    Anyways there’s also Primordus of which we don’t know much as of the other dragons but I guess that his gluttony and wrath have driven him mad.
    Now there’s Jormag, the keeper of Illusion and Ice. Jormag also had the gift of visions but with the side effect of altering it. We still don’t know much about the real Jormag but I believe they are aware of their weaknesses and Thyria’s future and they really want to change something but there’s also that urge for manipulation and dominance.The keeper of Ice and Pursuation is also known for inheritenting Lust as they can seduce others easily. We still don’t know how much Jormag has been corrupted and if maybe Jormag has cured their corruption a bit already. The dragon seems too self aware but maybe this is all a trick. We’ll never know. However I think Jormag is the most conflicted Elder Dragon of them all.
    Now on to the Ocean Elder Dragon... we truly don’t know anything about it but I believe it’s connected to Kuunuvang and that Kuunu is its champion but the ocean dragon has good intentions and actually wants to preserve and protect life on the planet. “Mortals are little flames. Brilliant hot, then gone...” either Kuun or the sea dragon said this but if the sea dragon said it it’s clear that the dragon knows that even the Elders are mortal and can go out like flames at any moment. But it could also refer to that the dragon realizes that anything on Thyria is mortal, fragile and deserves to be protected. Maybe the dragon observed the other actions of its relatives and wants to truly change something. Maybe it is the only dragon untouched from corruption.
    However know let’s assume that Kunnuvang said this trying to convince the ocean dragon to be good and to cure the corruption among dragons. Anyways, I think it will still be the same. Only time will tell.

    That was a lot. I'll let someone else touch on the majority of it but the part about morals being little flames, brilliant, then gone seems less about acknowledging the mortality and protecting the mortal lives as it is ensuring that they stay mortal. It sees the value in them knowing that their lives are short-lived and are more meaningful because of it. Also why it seems to be advocating for the cycle insisting that Tyria needs them. It needs them to ensure that these mortal races, these civilizations, remain fragile and fleeting. It's like a villain telling a superhero that without them they're nothing, they serve no purpose. They're still a villain and doing wrong, but they've justified their actions by insisting they're a necessary evil.

    As far as the elder dragons being corrupted by something else, I do believe that is plausible. Though the idea suggested by another poster that they went mad due to their corresponding spirit going missing similar to the other animals being disoriented due to their spirit of the wild going missing seems like a pretty solid take and has actually had a fair amount of set up with this saga.

    As far as Abaddon goes, I'm still keen on the theory that he was corrupted by Arachnia or whatever. Assuming the Utopia lore is setting us up to dive into the gods at some point it would seem plausible to me that whatever entity corrupted the pantheon that they presumably replaced/saved could have gotten to Abaddon. I'm just not buying the "he had evil in his heart that grew and he went nutso" statement. I do think something else happened to him, but I'm not sure if it was the other gods as they could have just done to him what they did to Balhazar and presumably stripped him of his magic and imprisoned him somewhere. If anything I think Balthazar was always a little crazy and vengeful by nature. He was the god of war and, whether due to him finally winning the battle over Menzies or some adventure with the gods in the mists after the departure, perhaps wanted a reason to start another war to give himself purpose again.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 10, 2020

    @Cynder.2509 said:
    Maybe Balthazar wasn’t evil like we thought because maybe he saw how bad it was to gift magic upon the races of planet Thyria, especially humans, like Abaddon did. Maybe He understood why Abaddon wanted to take this gift back.
    I have this own headcanon that Abaddon knew of everything that will happen in the future but when he gifted the world magic he didn’t quite realize because his heart was too good and later when he saw what harm it caused he wanted to take it back. And because of this, because Abaddon was misunderstood, the other Gods cursed him and so he turned under painful circumstances into the very being we fought in Nightfall.
    Later Balthazar realized this too and because he rebelled and thought that humanity is better off dead for what harm they’ve caused he was exiled too.

    It sounds like you have it backwards. Abaddon didn't want to take the gift of magic back. The other five gods did, and they did reduce the gift of magic. The five gods' actions of reducing magic is one of the triggers that made Abaddon rebelled (and not the only one, nor the last one - the last trigger was the Forgotten attempting genocide on the Margonite people, who saw Abaddon as their patron god).

    As for Balthazar, he was rebelling because he wanted to fight the Elder Dragons. The other five gods said no because, as we learned in Season 3, killing too many of the Elder Dragons would destroy the world of Tyria. That's the entire reason why the Commander chases Balthazar down - because if Balthazar succeeded, the world would die. Balthazar wasn't seeking out human extinction - he simply didn't care one way or the other about humanity at that point. All he wanted was to kill the Elder Dragons, take their powers, and kill the other five gods.

    I also have this theory that the Elder Dragons were once created as guardians to Thyria and its magic but later they became corrupted by an unknown evil. The fact that Kralkatorrik said to Aurene that he never wishes for her to kill anyithing she loves shows that Elder Dragons are capable of emotions and the concept of love. Also in the end Kralk’s last words were “Mother...” which leads to a greater mystery and the fact that even Elder Dragons recognize their family.

    Season 4 showed that what they became corrupted by was their own greed. As established by Glint in All or Nothing's first instance "Scion & Champion", trying to absorb a lot of magic is a huge burden on the individual; they need to share that burden through bonds with others. But Kralkatorrik didn't want a world with peace between mortals and dragons, so he didn't share that burden. This burden then created "Kralkatorrik's Torment" and this torment drove Kralkatorrik insane eons ago, only getting worse as Kralkatorrik absorbed more and more magic.

    The other Elder Dragons are likely the same - for x reason, they refused to bond with mortals and share the burden of magic, this burden then became magical torment and drove them to act against their true desires and seek out corruption and death for others, and the consumption of more magic.

    My theory:
    Zhaitan became evil because he knew he was the weakest of his bretheren and he feared that. Zhaitan was relatively small compared to the others and he feared that. Zhaitan couldn’t even speak aside from his servants because he wasn’t strong enough. Zhaitans fear drove him mad and caused him to be evil.

    It isn't so much that Zhaitan couldn't speak, but that he didn't care to. Keep in mind that at the beginning of the game, the Elder Dragons view mortals as nothing more than insects in the world compared to them. Why would any desire to speak to insects.
    The Elder Dragons only speak to mortals that they deem worthy of their attention, such as the Pact Commander and Asgeir.

    Should be noted that Zhaitan is the weakest because the Six Gods drew magic from Zhaitan while it slept. And since "magic is size and power" for dragons and their minions, this made Zhaitan smaller and weaker than normal. And if Kralkatorrik is to be believed, "Elder Dragons do not fear anything, not even death" so it wouldn't be fear that drove Zhaitan - or any ED - into consuming so much magic it created magical Torment.

    Also, there's a small easily overlooked fact about the risen that differentiate themselves from the other dragon minions: they retain their "position" after corruption. This is to say, farmers corrupted into risen, continue farming; captains and admirals and other military leaders after corruption now lead Zhaitan's armies in the same manner (ship captains run dead ships, etc.). Everyone fulfills the same duties in life and death under Zhaitan - except one position: royalty. Zhaitan "demoted" the kings and queens of Orr (leaving princes alone to lead military) and turned them into the Eyes. Personally, I interpret it as if Zhaitan is making itself their monarch.

    Mordremoth slumbered but he was still stronger than Zhaitan because he was more gifted. He was originally the keeper of Life, Preservation and Mind. However everything changed because his pride and greediness corrupted the once Elder Keper of Life when he noticed that his brother Zhiatan, the Keeper of Death and Shadow was slain. At first the Jungle Dragon denied it but then he realized that even Elder Dragons are mortals. A bit of fear but mostly his pride and hunger for more power drove him more and more mad.

    Mordremoth was evil LONG before Zhaitan's death. And given Kralkatorrik's hint of "mother", there's a very decent chance that all, or at least some including Kralkatorrik, of the current Elder Dragons have replaced a previous one. Furthermore, Mordremoth was "killed" before - the Mouth of Mordremoth is its core body, but not its original one according to Matthew Medina - and this is likely why it so heavily resembles the Mordrem Spitfires, and not a dragon. The whole reason why we had to attack Mordremoth's mind directly, was because even if we killed its core body (the Mouth of Mordremoth and the Heart of Thorns tree both acted as such), it would survive by transferring its mind somewhere among its corruption like it nearly did with Trahearne. Given that the Mouth of Mordremoth isn't its original body, but was the body it had upon waking up, then it likely was "killed" before and had to transfer to a new body which became the Mouth of Mordremoth.

    We know that Kralkatorrik was around for longer than them and he caused havoc far before these two.

    Not sure where you're getting this. All six Elder Dragons from the beginning of the game have been around for at least 10,000 years, and it is implied that they've been around at least 30,000 years. And if you just mean this cycle, then Zhaitan woke up before Kralkatorrik by about 100 years; the order of awakening being Primordus->deep sea dragon->Jormag->Zhaitan->Kralkatorrik->Mordremoth.

    It’s simply because Elder Dragons are forces of nature and guardiand to the elements and magic flow of the planet. After all it is simply in their nature to dominate and to protect. However Kralkatorrik was gifted with seeing into the future and he was also the Keeper of Crystal/Beauty and Fury. However he knew that his own blood will be his weakness and he feared betrayal deeply. Once his visions had overcome him he became mad and it turned his keeper likeness into evil. But fear not, his gift as an augur sprung over to his child Glint and later to Aurene. In fact Kralkatorrik cared deeply for his offsprings and that’s why he passed his leftover sane wisdom on to Glint and Aurene. Later on Kralkatorrik’s agony after he consumed too much magic corrupted him even more and crazed him absolutely. However after the Commander and Aurene granted him salvation he passed on all of his wisdom to Aurene and the lesson that Aurene should “never kill what she loves” which means that Aurene should never succumb to corruption and never hurt what she has sworn to protect.

    All or Nothing and War Eternal directly contradict this theory.

    • Elder Dragons fear nothing.
    • Kralkatorrik's vision wasn't of betrayal, but peace between mortals and dragons.
    • Glint mistook Kralkatorrik's reaction to "fear a world without him" but Kralkatorrik corrects Aurene stating Elder Dragons (or at least he) don't even fear death.
    • Kralkatorrik didn't worry about betrayal from his family - he loved his daughter, it was his Torment that drove him to corrupt her and later kill her. And it wasn't simply due to betrayal, though it could be interpreted as such: it was because his Torment drove him to consume and corrupt all things, and destroy anything he couldn't corrupt, even the things he loved that broke free of his corruption.
    • The line about hoping Aurene would never have to kill what she loves wasn't a warning that doing so would lead her to madness, but telling that madness led him to do that and he hopes she is spared that fate.

    It should also be noted that ANet confirmed that Kralkatorrik was not a good guy before Torment overtook him. He was always a bad 'person', but Torment made him worse / more animalistic.

    Anyways there’s also Primordus of which we don’t know much as of the other dragons but I guess that his gluttony and wrath have driven him mad.

    We do know two things about Primordus.
    1. He set the Great Destroyer to "kill all surface life in preparation for its awakening".
    2. He doesn't corrupt living beings, he merely kills.
    This means that, unlike the other four Elder Dragons we interacted with, Primordus' sole interest is genocide of mortals.
    Whether this is because of its Torment or just its original desires is unclear.

    Now there’s Jormag, the keeper of Illusion and Ice. Jormag also had the gift of visions but with the side effect of altering it. We still don’t know much about the real Jormag but I believe they are aware of their weaknesses and Thyria’s future and they really want to change something but there’s also that urge for manipulation and dominance.The keeper of Ice and Pursuation is also known for inheritenting Lust as they can seduce others easily. We still don’t know how much Jormag has been corrupted and if maybe Jormag has cured their corruption a bit already. The dragon seems too self aware but maybe this is all a trick. We’ll never know. However I think Jormag is the most conflicted Elder Dragon of them all.

    AFAIK, there's nothing so far to indicate Jormag has visions, and I have no clue where you're getting "known for inheriting Lust so they can seduce others easily". I think you're taking the phrasing of Jormag "seducing" others through promises a little too literally in its sexual context - there's no lust, just persuasion.

    Regarding the magical Torment, it should be noted that there's no confirmation that all Elder Dragons have been afflicted by it, and if even two Elder Dragons have, it is clear that it affects the Elder Dragons differently as no Elder Dragon has been as animalistic as Kralkatorrik has - not even Primordus, who's next up on that list of "low complex behavior".

    Now on to the Ocean Elder Dragon... we truly don’t know anything about it but I believe it’s connected to Kuunuvang and that Kuunu is its champion but the ocean dragon has good intentions and actually wants to preserve and protect life on the planet. “Mortals are little flames. Brilliant hot, then gone...” either Kuun or the sea dragon said this but if the sea dragon said it it’s clear that the dragon knows that even the Elders are mortal and can go out like flames at any moment. But it could also refer to that the dragon realizes that anything on Thyria is mortal, fragile and deserves to be protected. Maybe the dragon observed the other actions of its relatives and wants to truly change something. Maybe it is the only dragon untouched from corruption.
    However know let’s assume that Kunnuvang said this trying to convince the ocean dragon to be good and to cure the corruption among dragons. Anyways, I think it will still be the same. Only time will tell.

    We know for certain that the Deep Sea Dragon has no good intentions. It got confirmed by Jeff Grubb back in 2010 that it is "just as evil as the others" (paraphrasing to best of memory). Furthermore, the deep sea dragon is the force that caused the krait, karka, and quaggan to flee the Unending Ocean's depths. While one could argue about the krait being evil so the DSD was just fighting evil, the karka are merely animals and the quaggan are peaceful. Furthermore, recent lore indicates that the DSD's minions are capsizing Elonian and Canthan ships in the Clashing Seas.

    As to the lines from the trailer - it's been confirmed to be a conversation between Kuunavang and a new character, implying not the DSD. Could still be, but it's hard to tell, and given older lore on the DSD (hah! right...), it wouldn't make sense for the DSD to say those things. The line of "Mortals are like flames" is not from Kuunavang but the new character iirc.

    I also see that you're constantly renaming the Elder Dragon domains as the Six Gods' domains. Are you trying to connect the two pantheons? Because it's been explicitly confirmed by ANet that there is no relation between the two pantheons and their powers or domains. There is some overlap, but they're far from the same.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I like the idea that each ED has their own reason for being evil in the modern day -

    Zhaitain was driven by fear and insecurity at his own strength

    Mordremoth was arrogant and prideful and allowed us to get into his territory without truly defeating us

    Kralkatorrik was frightened by his visions of the future, and besides that, he's older (at least than mordy and zhaitain, maybe older than most of them) and had consumed too much magic.

    Jormag is the only one to retain full mental capacity, not hindered by things like fear, pride, or rage. However its undoing will likely be the fact that it tried to deceive us instead of just being honest (underestimating mortals in a different way than the other dragons; placing value on them, but thinking we can be easily manipulated)

    Primordus will be the biggest and probably oldest one, driven by greed, all he wants is more magic, more destruction, more power. Perhaps we'll beat him by giving him exactly what he wants (I imagine too much magic could kill, just like too much of anything else can, even oxygen)

    The Sea Dragon will be, simply, evil. The kind of person that just wants to cause suffering and death (it relishes being such a mystery to people and loves to make mortals afraid). We'll beat it by facing fear head on

    I also like that underestimating mortals is an underlying cause of defeat for them all

    I'd rather keep going.. wherever the wind takes us

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I like the idea that each ED has their own reason for being evil in the modern day -

    Zhaitain was driven by fear and insecurity at his own strength

    Mordremoth was arrogant and prideful and allowed us to get into his territory without truly defeating us

    Kralkatorrik was frightened by his visions of the future, and besides that, he's older (at least than mordy and zhaitain, maybe older than most of them) and had consumed too much magic.

    Jormag is the only one to retain full mental capacity, not hindered by things like fear, pride, or rage. However its undoing will likely be the fact that it tried to deceive us instead of just being honest (underestimating mortals in a different way than the other dragons; placing value on them, but thinking we can be easily manipulated)

    Primordus will be the biggest and probably oldest one, driven by greed, all he wants is more magic, more destruction, more power. Perhaps we'll beat him by giving him exactly what he wants (I imagine too much magic could kill, just like too much of anything else can, even oxygen)

    The Sea Dragon will be, simply, evil. The kind of person that just wants to cause suffering and death (it relishes being such a mystery to people and loves to make mortals afraid). We'll beat it by facing fear head on

    I also like that underestimating mortals is an underlying cause of defeat for them all

    Youre trying humanize them too much, the Elder Dragons concept is borrowed from Chinese Dragons, where they are "entities" near Gods without much humanized emotions.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Bast.7253Bast.7253 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I like the idea that each ED has their own reason for being evil in the modern day -

    Zhaitain was driven by fear and insecurity at his own strength

    Mordremoth was arrogant and prideful and allowed us to get into his territory without truly defeating us

    Kralkatorrik was frightened by his visions of the future, and besides that, he's older (at least than mordy and zhaitain, maybe older than most of them) and had consumed too much magic.

    Jormag is the only one to retain full mental capacity, not hindered by things like fear, pride, or rage. However its undoing will likely be the fact that it tried to deceive us instead of just being honest (underestimating mortals in a different way than the other dragons; placing value on them, but thinking we can be easily manipulated)

    Primordus will be the biggest and probably oldest one, driven by greed, all he wants is more magic, more destruction, more power. Perhaps we'll beat him by giving him exactly what he wants (I imagine too much magic could kill, just like too much of anything else can, even oxygen)

    The Sea Dragon will be, simply, evil. The kind of person that just wants to cause suffering and death (it relishes being such a mystery to people and loves to make mortals afraid). We'll beat it by facing fear head on

    I also like that underestimating mortals is an underlying cause of defeat for them all

    Kralk wasn't really "frightened" though. He pursued Aurene and might have been seeking her destruction because of the threat she caused to the greedy side of his torment that wanted to consume everything, but I'm not sure that was motivated by fear or just a, "well this thing is problematic so I'm going to eliminate it."

    As far as Primordus goes, I'm not really sure what his motivations are but I like the part about killing him by giving him too much magic. I think that's one thing we haven't covered since we discovered Kralk's torment. We haven't tested intentionally giving an elder dragon as many different conflicting forms of magic as possible. Say, if we gave another god's magic to an elder dragon or found yet another source of magic that has a similarly detrimental effect. (Say another being connected to the all somehow that doesn't have its magic converted like elder dragon and god magic. Though arguably something about Balthazar's magic despite not being a god allowed the elder dragons the ability to enter the mists.) It's all still a little unclear and seems made up on the fly but aside from what Balth did with Primordus and Jormag and Omaad's machine it feels like a potential method we could deal with in the future.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 13, 2020

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:

    @Fenom.9457 said:
    I like the idea that each ED has their own reason for being evil in the modern day -

    Zhaitain was driven by fear and insecurity at his own strength

    Mordremoth was arrogant and prideful and allowed us to get into his territory without truly defeating us

    Kralkatorrik was frightened by his visions of the future, and besides that, he's older (at least than mordy and zhaitain, maybe older than most of them) and had consumed too much magic.

    Jormag is the only one to retain full mental capacity, not hindered by things like fear, pride, or rage. However its undoing will likely be the fact that it tried to deceive us instead of just being honest (underestimating mortals in a different way than the other dragons; placing value on them, but thinking we can be easily manipulated)

    Primordus will be the biggest and probably oldest one, driven by greed, all he wants is more magic, more destruction, more power. Perhaps we'll beat him by giving him exactly what he wants (I imagine too much magic could kill, just like too much of anything else can, even oxygen)

    The Sea Dragon will be, simply, evil. The kind of person that just wants to cause suffering and death (it relishes being such a mystery to people and loves to make mortals afraid). We'll beat it by facing fear head on

    I also like that underestimating mortals is an underlying cause of defeat for them all

    Youre trying humanize them too much, the Elder Dragons concept is borrowed from Chinese Dragons, where they are "entities" near Gods without much humanized emotions.

    I think they were originally more inspired by Lovecraftian Elder Gods in their base concept. They just failed to properly deliver something truly Lovecraftian - as many do.

    But yes, OP and Fenom are humanizing them a bit too much. But many would argue has Anet too.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.