sPvP thread: MH Dagger nerfs should be reverted

I was running a core power build a while back that looked like this: [&DQg1KRM9MheiAJsAvQFwATAB5AAuAXYAegEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]Equipment: [&DQg1KRM9MheiAJsAvQFwATAB5AAuAXYAegEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

Strong damage, a bit of team support via Transfusion, very fun but still vulnerable. Yet having tried it post Feb 2020 nerfs, not only does the lack of stunbreak + stability from Foot in the Grave make it much glassier, the dagger damage is bad! There was no call for this, MH dagger on necro is already a tough choice given that necros do very poorly in melee, so what gives? And why was dagger 2 nerfed in healing, damage, and the ability to use it with your back turned? This was a terrible decision, I can't put it any other way. It's killing build diversity and for what purpose?

To be fair, every single weapon power damage is "bad" in sPvP if you don't heavily invest into power damage since the feb 2020 patch. It's not just necromancer's dagger.

More accurately, dagger main hand never had "strong damage", ANet simply nerfed both damage and healing source by 30% like they did for every professions of the game. The loss of stunbreak+stability might be harsh but ANet specifically said that they wanted the necromancer to be weak against CC.

The truth is that, within sPvP environment, the necromancer gained a lot of survivability thanks to this patch because ANet kept the LF pool at 67% of the necromancer's health pool instead of nerfing it to 46% and since LF is gained in %, it mean that the sustain through LF didn't get the 30% nerf that almost every other source of sustain in the game suffered.

It might seem irrelevant but in truth the current necromancer is like a pre 2020 feb patch necromancer that would have it's LF pool to health rate at 100% instead of 67% with foes having a 30% decrease in damage. Basically, the shroud can take 60% to 70% more hits than it could pre patch.

NB.: To be clear, I do not like the feb 2020 patch but, objectively, it wasn't a "loss" for the necromancer (whatever builds used). In any way, the necromancer gained more survivability out of this patch than any other profession ot the game. And it's true whether you play a glass build, a bruiser build or a support build.

@"Dadnir.5038" said:To be fair, every single weapon power damage is "bad" in sPvP if you don't heavily invest into power damage since the feb 2020 patch. It's not just necromancer's dagger.

More accurately, dagger main hand never had "strong damage", ANet simply nerfed both damage and healing source by 30% like they did for every professions of the game. The loss of stunbreak+stability might be harsh but ANet specifically said that they wanted the necromancer to be weak against CC.

The truth is that, within sPvP environment, the necromancer gained a lot of survivability thanks to this patch because ANet kept the LF pool at 67% of the necromancer's health pool instead of nerfing it to 46% and since LF is gained in %, it mean that the sustain through LF didn't get the 30% nerf that almost every other source of sustain in the game suffered.

It might seem irrelevant but in truth the current necromancer is like a pre 2020 feb patch necromancer that would have it's LF pool to health rate at 100% instead of 67% with foes having a 30% decrease in damage. Basically, the shroud can take 60% to 70% more hits than it could pre patch.

NB.: To be clear, I do not like the feb 2020 patch but, objectively, it wasn't a "loss" for the necromancer (whatever builds used). In any way, the necromancer gained more survivability out of this patch than any other profession ot the game. And it's true whether you play a glass build, a bruiser build or a support build.

I appreciate the thoughtful response. I can't say I agree that getting around 4k extra shroud was a big win, as most bursts (ex. core Greataxe) burst for more than 4k per hit. Considering you're losing both a stunbreak and a stack of stab, you will eat far more than that 4k shroud as a result of not being able to avoid that damage.

That being said, my point was that dagger used to be able to finish people very quickly, which is important to power necro given its bad sustain. But you might be correct that the overall decline in damage has been an advantage for core necro.

@Huskyboy.1053 said:I appreciate the thoughtful response. I can't say I agree that getting around 4k extra shroud was a big win, as most bursts (ex. core Greataxe) burst for more than 4k per hit. Considering you're losing both a stunbreak and a stack of stab, you will eat far more than that 4k shroud as a result of not being able to avoid that damage.

That being said, my point was that dagger used to be able to finish people very quickly, which is important to power necro given its bad sustain. But you might be correct that the overall decline in damage has been an advantage for core necro.

Well 4k extra LF mean that you can mitigate 8k damage since shroud take half damage. With the pretty good ability of the necromancer to grant himself protection and inflict weakness on it's foes it goes even further (which is pretty much why sPvP players tend to complain about core necromancer's survivability).

I know that it's a pain to finish other players with the amount of damage the dagger does but the balance trend since HoT release has mainly been to empower the shroud over and over while letting the out of shroud ability rot and stagnate. Personnally I don't like this trend and think a lot of balance issues come from it, but the devs set bring their professions where they want to, whether we like it or not. As a player, we can either complain or exploit what ANet give us and finishing a player with the shroud can be pretty fast when exploiting the tools they gave use to deal damage in shroud.

The sustain of necromancer is weaker than pre feb patch.

ANet did nerf every meta sustain skill: spectral armor, spectral walk, vamp signet, undeath signet.

They did further hardnerf paladin amulet which was the best amulet you could pick for reaper.

They nerfed the life force generation in blood magic and the toughness in death magic - both are the necro sustain traitlines.

They nerfed core life force degeneration.

They nerfed the swiftness uptime speed rune grants. They removed swiftness granting sigils. The spectral walk cd nerf was also a nerf to the swiftness uptime.

All these nerfs have an at least equal impact as the overal 30% damage reduction, which btw. did also affect necro as you have to stay at close range for a higher duration to kill your target, which is exactly what necro struggles at.

If you say necro became stronger because the life force pool wasn't nerfed (the generation was definitely nerfed!) then you do also have to mention that the mobility of other classes which counters necro was also not nerfed. The sustain of shroud is only a temporary sustain - it degenerates! The mobility of other classes if permanent.

A net removed damage from skills with control effects, which meant control effects no longer ate large portions of Life Force resulting in a surplus, especially on core necro. That, alone, was a giant boost to Necro's sustain and had to be nerfed.

Dagger has always been square solution to a round problem. Feel free to browse the myriad dagger complaint threads for fun to get a sense of Arenanet's apathy.

@Anchoku.8142 said:A net removed damage from skills with control effects, which meant control effects no longer ate large portions of Life Force resulting in a surplus, especially on core necro. That, alone, was a giant boost to Necro's sustain and had to be nerfed.Esp. reaper got a hit from that. Grasping darkness, chilled to the bone and exec scythe... all were big burst skills. So this nerf goes in both directions.

The only fight that became easier is against herald, which you can stunlock in infuse light without healing it (a herald won't dodge when infuse light is up for obvious reasons). That's pretty cool and I am doing this every day.

The stuns you have to tank in shroud now, do only have to be tanked because you can't break or avoid them anymore because foot in the grave was reworked to trash and the stability uptime of infusing terror became a joke.

Reaper lost all its burst skills and combos (GS5 > skill cancel > GS2 or RS5 > RS4) which makes it far easier to kite.Core never had burst combos in the first place - one of the reasons power core necro it is trash. Slow, immobile and no burst => trash tier.

Thieves can tank soul spiral for a second, then comfortably interrupt it or dash out of it with super slow reaction times.

Dagger has always been square solution to a round problem. Feel free to browse the myriad dagger complaint threads for fun to get a sense of Arenanet's apathy.True, about this weapon basically everything is said.

If you want to be a snowflake you can play a GS + D/Wh speed rune build and spam dagger3, GS5 and spectral grasp followed by shroud attacks. That's quite funny at times, but far from a serious contribution to a team fght.

despite the nerfs it still does the most damage out of all the core weapons. apply weakness and spam autos.