who uses Persistence of Memory trait?

Persistence of Memory: shattered phantasms transfer boons to the caster.

I have yet to find a use for this trait. In pvp, most people aren't boonshare builds, and my phantasms are either being shattered or killed before they have any boons with a duration long enough that's worth transferring. And in PvE, I'm just not shattering phantasms. I can't find a good reason to ever use this trait.

IMO, it just can't compete with the other 2 choices which are far more practical.

However, if Persistence of Memory was changed to allow phantasms to periodically transfer boons from phantasms to the caster without shattering it could open up new ways of playing. For example, a big problem with playing as ranged dps aside from the lower damage from ranged weapons is that standing out of the stack means you lose access to all the boons. This change may allow ranged dps to complete mechanics, such as Greens on VG or spreading out during KC etc, without sacrificing critical boons.

TLDR: Persistence of Memory should be changed to transfer boons periodically without conditions. That will make that trait more competitive.

Eh. I honestly hate the whole concept, sinec phantasms are the lowest priority for receiving boons anyway. They will honestly only have boons if you trait for them, which means you are dedicating quite a few other traits to your build simply to make PoM do anything at all.

I really want to see PoM merged with shattered strength. It honestly fits there, and shattered strength isn't that strong by itself. Its all of 3 might per shatter, but that is also tied to using other skills/traits to summon illusions to shatter in the first place. This also gives us a new major adept slot in the Illusions line to make something more fitting for mesmer.

For that now empty slot I was thinking it could be a new take on clone death traits. Something like

Shattered Remnants - If you shatter an illusion and it is killed before it can reach its target and shatter, inflict 1 stack confusion and 1 stack torment on the target of the shatter, 2s each.

Its not that strong, can't be abused by the mesmer easily since it doesn't proc from them being cleaved unless you used a shatter, just adds a tiny bit of constant pressure, and adds counterplay to your opponents cleave if you wish to trait for it.

@OriOri.8724 said:For that now empty slot I was thinking it could be a new take on clone death traits. Something like

Shattered Remnants - If you shatter an illusion and it is killed before it can reach its target and shatter, inflict 1 stack confusion and 1 stack torment on the target of the shatter, 2s each.

Its not that strong, can't be abused by the mesmer easily since it doesn't proc from them being cleaved unless you used a shatter, just adds a tiny bit of constant pressure, and adds counterplay to your opponents cleave if you wish to trait for it.

That would be OP and you know it, if we want to generate clones we can pretty much do it indefinitely would be cool though we can dream.

@Hot Boy.7138 said:Persistence of Memory: shattered phantasms transfer boons to the caster.

I have yet to find a use for this trait. In pvp, most people aren't boonshare builds, and my phantasms are either being shattered or killed before they have any boons with a duration long enough that's worth transferring. And in PvE, I'm just not shattering phantasms. I can't find a good reason to ever use this trait.

IMO, it just can't compete with the other 2 choices which are far more practical.

However, if Persistence of Memory was changed to allow phantasms to periodically transfer boons from phantasms to the caster without shattering it could open up new ways of playing. For example, a big problem with playing as ranged dps aside from the lower damage from ranged weapons is that standing out of the stack means you lose access to all the boons. This change may allow ranged dps to complete mechanics, such as Greens on VG or spreading out during KC etc, without sacrificing critical boons.

TLDR: Persistence of Memory should be changed to transfer boons periodically without conditions. That will make that trait more competitive.

Its possible to 25 might your self with that trait if you SoI then nuke your phantasms, Outside of that unless you trait the other skills that gives your phantasms/illusions things when they are shatter/created its pretty worthless. Biggest issue with the trait is as a early trait it requires so many other traits to be some what usefull by it self. And in raiding/t4cms scenarios your getting your buffs already too so yeah.

I feel you worthless trait is worthless. I agree with your change.

delete this

@Genesis.5169 said:Its possible to 25 might your self with that trait if you SoI then nuke your phantasms

Uh no. SoI shares 1 stack of might aoe, it's utterly useless for that.

The only build I used this trait with was my solo wvw cele chrono/illu/inspi build with shatter spam and Persisting Images for high retaliation uptime. It was kinda fun, not really good though.

Other than that, I find the trait pretty terrible, especially considering what it used be in the past (reduce all phants cd whenever you shatter a phantasm).

Yes it appears that when they redesigned the trait that they forgot phantasms are low on boon priority and that you can only really trait to give them protection and retaliation. They also forgot to make a good trait.

I’d much prefer if it was clones apply 1 stack of poison for 2s upon death or shatter as it offers mesmer a way to deal with sustain through reliable poison application but it doesn’t really fit the name.

Maybe it could be redesigned into something like:After being shattered, Illusions leave a short-duration AoE field that damages and bleeds (or confuses/torments/whatever) foes every sec.

This way it would encourage shattering and provide mesmer with some more AoE and sustained damage. It would also kinda fit the trait's name (because illusions would somewhat persist, but in their shattered form :tongue: ), as well as Illusions traitline's hybrid damage theme.

@Genesis.5169 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:For that now empty slot I was thinking it could be a new take on clone death traits. Something like

Shattered Remnants - If you shatter an illusion and it is killed before it can reach its target and shatter, inflict 1 stack confusion and 1 stack torment on the target of the shatter, 2s each.

Its not that strong, can't be abused by the mesmer easily since it doesn't proc from them being cleaved unless you used a shatter, just adds a tiny bit of constant pressure, and adds counterplay to your opponents cleave if you wish to trait for it.

@Hot Boy.7138 said:Persistence of Memory: shattered phantasms transfer boons to the caster.

I have yet to find a use for this trait. In pvp, most people aren't boonshare builds, and my phantasms are either being shattered or killed before they have any boons with a duration long enough that's worth transferring. And in PvE, I'm just not shattering phantasms. I can't find a good reason to ever use this trait.

IMO, it just can't compete with the other 2 choices which are far more practical.

However, if Persistence of Memory was changed to allow phantasms to periodically transfer boons from phantasms to the caster without shattering it could open up new ways of playing. For example, a big problem with playing as ranged dps aside from the lower damage from ranged weapons is that standing out of the stack means you lose access to all the boons. This change may allow ranged dps to complete mechanics, such as Greens on VG or spreading out during KC etc, without sacrificing critical boons.

TLDR: Persistence of Memory should be changed to transfer boons periodically without conditions. That will make that trait more competitive.

A grand maximum of 3 stacks of confusion and torment per shatter, which only get applied if all 3 illusions are killed after you use the shatter skill. That's literally weaker than the shatters are. Its weaker than CoF or MW is, and you know it. It does nothing but provides some counterplay to cleave

Then again, someone that thinks that shattered strength and SoI can get 25 might clearly doesn't know anything about mesmer.

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:For that now empty slot I was thinking it could be a new take on clone death traits. Something like

Shattered Remnants - If you shatter an illusion and it is killed before it can reach its target and shatter, inflict 1 stack confusion and 1 stack torment on the target of the shatter, 2s each.

Its not that strong, can't be abused by the mesmer easily since it doesn't proc from them being cleaved unless you used a shatter, just adds a tiny bit of constant pressure, and adds counterplay to your opponents cleave if you wish to trait for it.

@Hot Boy.7138 said:Persistence of Memory: shattered phantasms transfer boons to the caster.

I have yet to find a use for this trait. In pvp, most people aren't boonshare builds, and my phantasms are either being shattered or killed before they have any boons with a duration long enough that's worth transferring. And in PvE, I'm just not shattering phantasms. I can't find a good reason to ever use this trait.

IMO, it just can't compete with the other 2 choices which are far more practical.

However, if Persistence of Memory was changed to allow phantasms to periodically transfer boons from phantasms to the caster without shattering it could open up new ways of playing. For example, a big problem with playing as ranged dps aside from the lower damage from ranged weapons is that standing out of the stack means you lose access to all the boons. This change may allow ranged dps to complete mechanics, such as Greens on VG or spreading out during KC etc, without sacrificing critical boons.

TLDR: Persistence of Memory should be changed to transfer boons periodically without conditions. That will make that trait more competitive.

I don't play in a vacuum by my self as though i'm in a single player game assume that there 1 other person who decides to pop a might skill near me like a necro, if then SoI then i shatter i generally get 25 stacks of might.

You single player folk really irk me, use the damn combo fields with jaunt to ffs.

@Genesis.5169 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Genesis.5169 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:For that now empty slot I was thinking it could be a new take on clone death traits. Something like

Shattered Remnants - If you shatter an illusion and it is killed before it can reach its target and shatter, inflict 1 stack confusion and 1 stack torment on the target of the shatter, 2s each.

Its not that strong, can't be abused by the mesmer easily since it doesn't proc from them being cleaved unless you used a shatter, just adds a tiny bit of constant pressure, and adds counterplay to your opponents cleave if you wish to trait for it.

@Hot Boy.7138 said:Persistence of Memory: shattered phantasms transfer boons to the caster.

I have yet to find a use for this trait. In pvp, most people aren't boonshare builds, and my phantasms are either being shattered or killed before they have any boons with a duration long enough that's worth transferring. And in PvE, I'm just not shattering phantasms. I can't find a good reason to ever use this trait.

IMO, it just can't compete with the other 2 choices which are far more practical.

However, if Persistence of Memory was changed to allow phantasms to periodically transfer boons from phantasms to the caster without shattering it could open up new ways of playing. For example, a big problem with playing as ranged dps aside from the lower damage from ranged weapons is that standing out of the stack means you lose access to all the boons. This change may allow ranged dps to complete mechanics, such as Greens on VG or spreading out during KC etc, without sacrificing critical boons.

TLDR: Persistence of Memory should be changed to transfer boons periodically without conditions. That will make that trait more competitive.

Well I mean we might as well assume there’s a PS warrior next to you or GotL druid which instantly caps you both out at 25 might without you needing to do anything.

I remember telling you context matters, seems you should have stated the context in your original post, not that it would make much difference because the well known Pyro phrase will get said, you’re wrong, jaunt is a leap, leaps don’t give might only fire aura and ANet specifically stated they intend mesmers to not get hit in the first place which is why they removed retal from most mesmer stuff.

@Genesis.5169 said:

I don't play in a vacuum by my self as though i'm in a single player game assume that there 1 other person who decides to pop a might skill near me like a necro, if then SoI then i shatter i generally get 25 stacks of might.

You single player folk really irk me, use the kitten combo fields with jaunt to kitten.

Hmmm.......

@Genesis.5169 said:

@Hot Boy.7138 said:Persistence of Memory: shattered phantasms transfer boons to the caster.

I have yet to find a use for this trait. In pvp, most people aren't boonshare builds, and my phantasms are either being shattered or killed before they have any boons with a duration long enough that's worth transferring. And in PvE, I'm just not shattering phantasms. I can't find a good reason to ever use this trait.

IMO, it just can't compete with the other 2 choices which are far more practical.

However, if Persistence of Memory was changed to allow phantasms to periodically transfer boons from phantasms to the caster without shattering it could open up new ways of playing. For example, a big problem with playing as ranged dps aside from the lower damage from ranged weapons is that standing out of the stack means you lose access to all the boons. This change may allow ranged dps to complete mechanics, such as Greens on VG or spreading out during KC etc, without sacrificing critical boons.

TLDR: Persistence of Memory should be changed to transfer boons periodically without conditions. That will make that trait more competitive.

Interesting that in your first comment it was possible to get to 25 might by yourself, but now you are assuming that someone else is there to give you might. Please, explain to me how Shattered Strength can give us 25 might by ourselves, yet somehow also require someone else there to give us the might? Also, on that note, Like @Pyroatheist.9031 told you already, SoI only gives 1 stack of might to you. So you would need 24 stacks of might before popping it to get 25 stacks. Add on 3 stacks from shattered strength, and you are looking at a necro popping 1 skill and granting us 21 might? Interesting.

One more thing. Jaunt is a leap finisher. No leap combo in the game yields might, at all. You have no clue what you are talking about, and its quite embarrassing.

I don't think Genesis is a knowledgeable source based on these false claims of gaining 25 stacks of might. lol I'm curious how he does it. Please do explain clearly and carefully.

@MailMail.6534 said:I don't think Genesis is a knowledgeable source based on these false claims of gaining 25 stacks of might. lol I'm curious how he does it. Please do explain clearly and carefully.

Based on his posts in this thread, allow me:

1. Spawn 3 phantasms
2. Use jaunt a few times through a fire field
3. Use SoI
4. Shatter phantasms
5. Stand next to a druid spamming CA skills

See, easy 25 stacks!

Only use I've found with it is to summon iSwordsman in melee range to gain 8x Might, then shatter it to gain 8x more. Throw in BD from Chaos, and it really is almost instant 25x Might. (Seems the 5x AoE Might from BD gets applied to the iSwordsman before he shatters and shares it back to you.)

It's kinda neat to play with, but it relies on landing that iSwordsman summoning attack in melee range, which is not that practical in PvP.

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@MailMail.6534 said:I don't think Genesis is a knowledgeable source based on these false claims of gaining 25 stacks of might. lol I'm curious how he does it. Please do explain clearly and carefully.

1. Spawn 3 phantasms
2. Use jaunt a few times through a fire field
3. Use SoI
4. Shatter phantasms
5. Stand next to a druid spamming CA skills

Now it all makes sense. Mesmer sure knows how to might stack!

If someone doesn't know something, you can inform them without belittling them.

In any case, thank you for your input and support that the trait could be better than it is now.

@Windwalker.7421 said:Only use I've found with it is to summon iSwordsman in melee range to gain 8x Might, then shatter it to gain 8x more. Throw in BD from Chaos, and it really is almost instant 25x Might. (Seems the 5x AoE Might from BD gets applied to the iSwordsman before he shatters and shares it back to you.)

It's kinda neat to play with, but it relies on landing that iSwordsman summoning attack in melee range, which is not that practical in PvP.

Problem is that he claimed that he only needed shattered strength and SoI in order to obtain 25 might. You can't factor in BD under his original statement, though I'll be nice and grant him the iSwordsman attack which gives you 16 might if you use it and immediately shatter while PoM is equipped.

My statement was absolutely neutral, I was merely answering the question in the OPs title, that yes I found a use for it and I almost thought it was kinda cool, but in practice in PvP it was not nearly as practical as it was on Golems. ;-)

Every time I try to make the Celestial Amulet work I end up with this combo since the Might has at least somewhat decent duration, but then I remind myself how difficult it is to consistently land that iSwordsman summoning attack in melee range.

Now we get 12x Might on recharging MoP, which seems just insane, but the 5s duration is simply difficult to work with. All of the Mantra changes are neat and all, but it's just hard to make up for the 2.25s charging time where you're essentially doing nothing useful and are often taking massive damage to boot.

if you want to make use of it , you have to heavily invest other trait line and shatter your dmg resource .in short , it is useless .i mean even CI alone is better than this for might stack .

I would love to see this trait be some kind of standalone incentive to shatter phantasms. Something like Protection and Might whenever you shatter one. Or make the boon based on the kind of phantasm that was shattered.

@Genesis.5169 said:

@OriOri.8724 said:For that now empty slot I was thinking it could be a new take on clone death traits. Something like

Shattered Remnants - If you shatter an illusion and it is killed before it can reach its target and shatter, inflict 1 stack confusion and 1 stack torment on the target of the shatter, 2s each.

Its not that strong, can't be abused by the mesmer easily since it doesn't proc from them being cleaved unless you used a shatter, just adds a tiny bit of constant pressure, and adds counterplay to your opponents cleave if you wish to trait for it.

Honestly clone death traits that give outgoing condis with condi damage are imbalanced because it encourages spamming clones without shattering. However, if there was a trait that if a illusion died from non Shatters, it would then reduce all Shatter skills by 1 second per illusion death, that trait could be worthwhile. Especially useful if it reduced Shatter cooldowns because the illusion's target died and the illusions were still up. Strong for PvE between fight downtime and potentially synergizes well with Chronomancer resummon after shatter traits (very ghetto-alacrity but that's OK since Adept trait).

Pure speculation but I'm pretty sure this only even exists because A-net added the whole "might on sword 4" thing. At the same time I'm sure that only exists because they knew Phantasmal Force was coming, and someone at the office was then like "Omg! We can add a way for mesmers to get the might back!..... SYNERGY!"Lol

@"Daishi.6027" said:Pure speculation but I'm pretty sure this only even exists because A-net added the whole "might on sword 4" thing. At the same time I'm sure that only exists because they knew Phantasmal Force was coming, and someone at the office was then like "Omg! We can add a way for mesmers to get the might back!..... SYNERGY!"Lol

Its not speculation. The only boons we are ever going to get from phantasms are the ones that we trait to give them (which outside of fury don't last that long anyway), and then might from sword4. That's the only thing we can ever get back from them, which makes the new PoM kind of weird.

Conceptually, its as if they want us to be able to "double dip"on the traits that give boons to phantasms. But if that were the case, it would be better to just make PoM be "Anytime you give an illusion a boon, you apply it to yourself as well"

Sword4 might application would have to be adjusted, but overall this would be better for PoM than the current version.