[WvW] Havoc/Roaming Professions

So, there's always the talk about Meta Comps and Builds but they are always centered on Zerg Fights.What about Small Scale fights? Not all classes work on a Zerg/Big Group, but actually shine when you look on another aspect of this game.And i feel like it's a good question to approach since alot of people come here trying to find answers that sometimes aren't covered on WvW sections or Professions.

What's for you the best professions atm? And what's the best Duo/trio/5man group?

My Opinion (based on my experience), Condi Mirage is pretty strong right now, but ignoring that:

Holosmith: if used correctly is pretty good DPS plus securing stomps with Elixir S. The burst capabilities plus Cc from #5 Forge and Elite are very good. In contrast to scrapper, it's a higher risk, High reward kind of Spec.

Firebrand: I've always been a Fan of the Roaming Core Guard, therefore i'm not fond of a roaming Firebrand, however on a 5-man Party, it can bring alot of down control and very good heals/Stab uptime. However it's easy to get stuck on the wrong virtue and not be able to help your group.

Chronomancer: I'm more of a Support Type of Person, therefore my experience with Chronomancer is playing a Boonshare Build, if playing on a organized group, the portal Play + Mass Invis is very strong, repositioning your group, Invising your group before a fight or to Run away from one, Alot of Stab to secure stomps and moderate Heals.Can't say it's optimal, but i've had alot of success with it if you can trust the other 4 players to do the damage for you.

Necro/Scourge: Suffers from the same problems as before, low mobility, very good damage and always has a target on their backs. Scourge gives more Group Support plus AoE control, Reaper seems to offer alot more spike damage (power reaper). The idea is almost the same as of in a Zerg. Reapers mainly for the Bombs, Scourges can go for Damage or Support.

Haven't had much experience playing other classes on a roaming/havoc aspect so i won't say anything.It's just my opinion, might be right, might be wrong, but it's based on my View :)

Sword devil right there at the top with the condi mirage.

Mobile builds. Need to be able to engage and disengage fights. GS spellbreaker, theif, mirage, etc.

You can run slower moving builds if you have a fixed team to play with. Scourge FB combo is quite powerful

@xDudisx.5914 said:Mobile builds. Need to be able to engage and disengage fights. GS spellbreaker, theif, mirage, etc.

You can run slower moving builds if you have a fixed team to play with. Scourge FB combo is quite powerful

When you say FB/Scourge duo, you mean like Cele FB + Scourge? Or Full Heals FB?

@DeKong.6203 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Mobile builds. Need to be able to engage and disengage fights. GS spellbreaker, theif, mirage, etc.

You can run slower moving builds if you have a fixed team to play with. Scourge FB combo is quite powerful

The tank would need to be supported by more peeps, so maybe in 4-6 man groups.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@DeKong.6203 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Mobile builds. Need to be able to engage and disengage fights. GS spellbreaker, theif, mirage, etc.

You can run slower moving builds if you have a fixed team to play with. Scourge FB combo is quite powerful

Yea i tought so, but wanted to ask just to be sure heheIt's how i feel when i play support chrono, gets to a time that i feel that if i was doing more damage i could help way more.

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@DeKong.6203 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Mobile builds. Need to be able to engage and disengage fights. GS spellbreaker, theif, mirage, etc.

You can run slower moving builds if you have a fixed team to play with. Scourge FB combo is quite powerful

What is strong about FB scourge combo is that FB has spamable projectile absorb. 90% of the ranged dmg is projectile based, forcing people to melee the scourge. Scourge+FB+Tempest+SB combo is really strong.

@xDudisx.5914 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@DeKong.6203 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Mobile builds. Need to be able to engage and disengage fights. GS spellbreaker, theif, mirage, etc.

You can run slower moving builds if you have a fixed team to play with. Scourge FB combo is quite powerful

Yea... i just really can't play FB on a roaming/havoc way.. i feel like i'm just spamming alot of virtues and i know it's a L2P situation, but i rather play something less.. spammable hahaHaving way more fun on my Cele Holo and alot more challenging. But if i ever need to go support, i'll hop on my mesmer.Haven't tried SB yet.Still wanna find a class to main and that i can have a balance of everything. Supposed to be engi, since they are the "jack of all trades" except they aint haha

@"DeKong.6203" said:Still wanna find a class to main and that i can have a balance of everything. Supposed to be engi, since they are the "jack of all trades" except they aint haha

Thought about Ele? Rather fun to play, i solo roam a lot and its really fun. There are a few builds that are dont ever go towards - Condi Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage as well as most Warriors as they are mostly Zerk built yet still full bunker with 20k+ health and 3k armor :/

But in a group fight, you should be perfectly fine

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:

@Dawdler.8521 said:

@DeKong.6203 said:

@xDudisx.5914 said:Mobile builds. Need to be able to engage and disengage fights. GS spellbreaker, theif, mirage, etc.

You can run slower moving builds if you have a fixed team to play with. Scourge FB combo is quite powerful

Firebrand scourge wins all 2v2 matchups. Basically the only way the only way to win against it is to catch them off guard and insta kill one of them with dual burst mesmers/eles. You can also out number them or hope they are really bad.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"DeKong.6203" said:Still wanna find a class to main and that i can have a balance of everything. Supposed to be engi, since they are the "jack of all trades" except they aint haha

In HoT i used to Main Bunker Tempest with my group. Just fit my playstyle really really well. Used Nomads +Cele trinkets just so i don't hit like a wet noodle.However in this meta, i dunno why, i just haven't been able to do as well. Be it condis or just too much damage overall, i dunno. Maybe lost my touch.Regards to weaver, feels like a DPS oriented class. I've played a bit in the beginning, fell in love with staff.. maybe i'll try it again and try and come up with some sort of build that can handle a 1v1 and still offer some kind of group support/play. I know that i won't ever win vs an equally skilled enemy cause of the build, but would be much better than playing my support chrono and 1v1 someone and win by making the othee guy run away knowing he can't ever kill me hahaha

@DeKong.6203 said:In HoT i used to Main Bunker Tempest with my group. Just fit my playstyle really really well. Used Nomads +Cele trinkets just so i don't hit like a wet noodle.However in this meta, i dunno why, i just haven't been able to do as well. Be it condis or just too much damage overall, i dunno. Maybe lost my touch.Regards to weaver, feels like a DPS oriented class. I've played a bit in the beginning, fell in love with staff.. maybe i'll try it again and try and come up with some sort of build that can handle a 1v1 and still offer some kind of group support/play. I know that i won't ever win vs an equally skilled enemy cause of the build, but would be much better than playing my support chrono and 1v1 someone and win by making the othee guy run away knowing he can't ever kill me hahaha

Sword/Dagger has some nice fields, such as Water and Fire, offers solid healing as well. With the Water part of Weaveself, You get 20% boon duration and 20% increased healing so it can be made to work rather well, as long as built well. I roam on my build. Currently the only builds that i have issue are the same ones that most have issue with Warrior (bunker defense with zerk levels of damage) as well as Condi Mesmer/Chrono/Mirage (just mindless to play) most others can be beaten, Condi Scourge for example are for me at least getting easier and easier to kill though i was getting rid of the ele cobwebs at the start but even if im just following a group, i feel like im offering good support with condi removal, healing, fire fields, water fields

I would defo give a Weaver Cele/hybrid stats build a look. Sword Dagger offers blasts, CC, Evades, Healing, Rege. It might take time to get used to, especially with the dual attunements but once its down. It plays VERY well.

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@DeKong.6203 said:In HoT i used to Main Bunker Tempest with my group. Just fit my playstyle really really well. Used Nomads +Cele trinkets just so i don't hit like a wet noodle.However in this meta, i dunno why, i just haven't been able to do as well. Be it condis or just too much damage overall, i dunno. Maybe lost my touch.Regards to weaver, feels like a DPS oriented class. I've played a bit in the beginning, fell in love with staff.. maybe i'll try it again and try and come up with some sort of build that can handle a 1v1 and still offer some kind of group support/play. I know that i won't ever win vs an equally skilled enemy cause of the build, but would be much better than playing my support chrono and 1v1 someone and win by making the othee guy run away knowing he can't ever kill me hahaha

I will certainly give it a try!! You've made a good argument there!! :D heheWill try full cele for now since i have it, and will adapt as the time goes by! Thanks :)

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@DeKong.6203 said:In HoT i used to Main Bunker Tempest with my group. Just fit my playstyle really really well. Used Nomads +Cele trinkets just so i don't hit like a wet noodle.However in this meta, i dunno why, i just haven't been able to do as well. Be it condis or just too much damage overall, i dunno. Maybe lost my touch.Regards to weaver, feels like a DPS oriented class. I've played a bit in the beginning, fell in love with staff.. maybe i'll try it again and try and come up with some sort of build that can handle a 1v1 and still offer some kind of group support/play. I know that i won't ever win vs an equally skilled enemy cause of the build, but would be much better than playing my support chrono and 1v1 someone and win by making the othee guy run away knowing he can't ever kill me hahaha

I've been dipping my feet into WvW and mostly just solo roam. I was enjoying it on my Soulbeast but I have really been diggin' my sword/dagger weaver lately. I doubt it's the best, but I feel that it's a pretty solid 1v1 class and it's the most fun spec out there for me, which is why I go with it. I struggle with the same matchups you mentioned (chrono less so), but good sword/dagger core thieves give me trouble too because of how easily kiteable sword weaver is. Holosmiths are difficult for me, but I'm getting better at fighting them and the stability from Bolstered Elements is really helpful. I don't have any sustain gear because I basically just pulled this character from open world (using a mix of carrion/viper's,) but even with no healing power, the sustain sword brings is really nice. I'd like to try a cele variant, but I haven't taken the time to work towards that yet. Anyways, I do recommend it as well. I doubt it's top tier, but I really think it's a ton of fun and I have had great success with it so far.

Air/Arcane/ weaver?Or u using fire instead?

@"Pterikdactyl.7630" said:I've been dipping my feet into WvW and mostly just solo roam. I was enjoying it on my Soulbeast but I have really been diggin' my sword/dagger weaver lately. I doubt it's the best, but I feel that it's a pretty solid 1v1 class and it's the most fun spec out there for me, which is why I go with it. I struggle with the same matchups you mentioned (chrono less so), but good sword/dagger core thieves give me trouble too because of how easily kiteable sword weaver is. Holosmiths are difficult for me, but I'm getting better at fighting them and the stability from Bolstered Elements is really helpful. I don't have any sustain gear because I basically just pulled this character from open world (using a mix of carrion/viper's,) but even with no healing power, the sustain sword brings is really nice. I'd like to try a cele variant, but I haven't taken the time to work towards that yet. Anyways, I do recommend it as well. I doubt it's top tier, but I really think it's a ton of fun and I have had great success with it so far.

I was the same. Started as Soulbeast but too be honest, it got kind of boring. The 1,500 burst was insane combined with the very good condi removal and everything meant that some builds were just boring to fight against because it was so heavily in my favor with my stealth, burst, condition removal and everything.

Started playing Sword/Dagger weaver again and with some help from a friend who gave me tips on the sort of stats and build i should use after a little bit, i tweaked to to how i like it and its great. There are builds that are just a no go Condi Mesmer/Chrono Mirage but POWER based Mesmer and Chrono i have had good success with, Mirage not even encountered one power Mirage.

They might be kitable, but its better to sit back, wait for them to do what you know they will do, with evades, stun breaks and such let them make the first move. That way they have to be the ones to push. Some will see that you're just waiting for them and run. Others will attack. I'd say its a close fight, win some. Lose some but its a good challenge, except the ones that just spam Backstab and HS until they can jump stealth again and repeat. They are just tedious to fight. Holosmith can be a challenge if they are full damage, it tends to favor me due to my evades, healing and such but if they are full bunker reliant on all the boons. Thats when it becomes a problem as we cant do anything about that due to no poison or boon removal as part of the class.

@DeKong.6203 said:Air/Arcane/ weaver?Or u using fire instead?

Nope. Yes. Yes. You will want to be Arcane/Water/Weaver. You will need water for the condi removal. No getting around that. Arcane gives some nice bonuses as well. I am in the process of just making a Roaming Video which i iwll be adding my whole build gear, abilities. Everything. Likely be out sunday or tuesday ^^

Just tried Cele Weaver, Air/Water/Weaver, playing Sword/focus.I felt like i was just spamming buttons since i never played dagger OH, that's why i opted for the Focus, plus the secure stomps/rezzes.Man.. i'm loving it! The damage from Air trait is awesome, but i'll still give Arcane a try. Always loved that trait.But i'll keep trying and tweaking.Looking forward to that video!!

@DeKong.6203 said:Just tried Cele Weaver, Air/Water/Weaver, playing Sword/focus.I felt like i was just spamming buttons since i never played dagger OH, that's why i opted for the Focus, plus the secure stomps/rezzes.Man.. i'm loving it! The damage from Air trait is awesome, but i'll still give Arcane a try. Always loved that trait.But i'll keep trying and tweaking.Looking forward to that video!!

I personally prefer Dagger, the mobility it gives is just SO useful. You will have a hard time catching someone who is running or escaping people without the Dagger. If you are in a group that comes with good condi removal then you might not need Arcane. Though Arcane does come with Might on attunement swap (stupid they nerfed Arcane Fury!) Solid Vigor up time Might/Regen/Swiftness/Protection on attunement swap, some defense with Final Shielding and evasive Arcana but i take Elemental Surge myself. Combined with Water and Weaver you will remove condis when attuning Water, when attuning Air for add in when you grant swiftness you grant regen. you have lots of condi removal.

yeah, cutting down some fights now, so i might start making the video today ^^

Yea, i'll try dagger when i get used to to sword at least.I like Air, feel like i'll use arcane if i want some more group support/down control with the rezz.

Link that video afterwards! Good luck :)

Most of my opinions here come from solo roaming -> 3-5 man ad-hoc group ups on wvw.

Warrior - Still a strong option, focusing on burst dps and high melee pressure. Damage from Berserker Power and buff to Peak Performance allow Bull's Rush -> Burst (f1) skills to do high damage versus squishier targets; eg. LB ranger / scourge etc.Berserker - Still Viable. Bloody Roar is still severely underestimated and most people don't counter play the trait. Gunflame still great against squishy builds.Spellbreaker - Strong. With a kit that has the ability to deal with most situations and punish bad play (from opponents).Apart from providing high melee pressure, occasional CCs, and burst damage; Warrior does not bring much to teamplay apart from being a constant thorn against a small enemy group.

Guardian - Anything Guardians can do imo; their elite specialization can do better. If only core game; bunk guard still heals decently and meditation power burst can still catch unprepared players off-guard.Dragonhunter - Traps still hurt a ton if pulled off correctly; use in conjunction with other CCs (personal or team). f1 pull still a good cc option when paired with team dps.Firebrand - Strong Support option for all the reasons listed above; and heavily overlooked aoe dps. I've been having alot of fun with this specialization recently. With several CC options from axe / shield, f1, f3 etc. High dps when burst damage skills are used in conjunction with Mantra of Potence and Mantra of Liberation (when used in conjunction with the recently tweaked Radiance line). Decent condition cleanses with smite conditions and appropriate traits (Valor) + f2 kit. Despite all its famed support ability, Firebrand is also capable of high power dps. I highly recommend DoNotD's videos on power firebrand (Both guide and gameplay).Guardian Elite Specializations bring decent team support without having to spec for it due to the nature of their kits. When fully specced for support; Guardians still seem to be the best option closely followed by Tempest.

Revenant - A decent dps option that is largely overshadowed by other professions and specializations. Could work as a shock factor when played by a decent player. Until now; Imo most people still aren't used to fighting revenants apart from the zerg (hammer) build.Herald - Same as above; apart from having one of the best heals in the game (imo) in a pvp environment.Renegade - Haven't touched this class but the recent 'Boots Bad Builds' introduces an interesting builds / playstyle. Worth checking out imo.Revenant is still in the limbo of doing everything decently without excelling at anything. Not the strongest option imo but the surprise factor does help.

Thief - Venom Share (now inbuilt to the skills i think?) is still a great team support opener and a good basilisk venom stun can change the tide of small group fights. Power thieves are still able to burst people down with backstab combos or pistol whip.Daredevil - Thief on steroids; despite seeing less of it; Vault-Bound and Chokebow are both still incredibly strong options, and among the most annoying to fight. Expect angry whispers after fights. Having access to 3 dodges, shadowsteps + thief burst damage still makes daredevil a strong pick build.Deadeye - High dps (when power), potential high CC (when condi). If one isn't prepared to face a deadeye in a team vs team scenario; that player's most likely dead.Thief is still one of the best pick options for a team comp. A party of 3 daredevil still among the most annoying to fight.

Ranger - Same situation as Deadeye for power builds; if you aren't ready for it, you will die to Longbow burst. Definitely easier to manage than a deadeye however. Condi ranger still a decent aoe damage option; good CCs combined with torch 5 does quite alot of aoe damage. Decent single target anti-stealth option with warhorn 4, Sic'em and longbow 2.Druid - A ranger with better mobility and self healing capability. Power Longbow is further buffed with additional condi cleanse; mobility and ancient seeds cc. No need to build for a support Druid. Even on a full power build; a druid is able to support through its skills and traits.Soulbeast - Power Soulbeast has high damage counter initiation with Beast skills and Worldly Impact, in addition to possibly having the highest amount of stats. Strong Dps choice with decent CC, survivability and damage.

Engineer - Similar problems with Revenant; large variety of conditions, decent damage and survivability but overshadowed by other professions. Condition engineers can't keep up with the amount of condition cleanses whereas power engineers needs to pick out enemies efficiently. Better as solo roamer rather vs an enemy team.Scrapper - Was nerfed a fair bit, but the power of a function gyro and elixir S can turn fights around; securing stomps to rally allies. Average damage with access to rare utilities such as a mass stealth / reveal, and team super speed. Definitely still a decent 2nd support (after tempest / firebrand) in a team comp.Holosmith - High damage, both single target and cleave. Good solo survivability but doesn't bring much to the group apart from damage pressure.Holosmith obviously has been the most popular and successful for engineer roamers since PoF release. Decent pick.

Elementalist- Most of the things elementalist can do; their specializations can do better.Tempest- Imo still the best group heal option for small groups. Firebrands support from damage mitigation, reflects, cleanses and small heals. Tempest provides the bigger heals and buffs (frost aura 10% damage reduction in addition to protection on auras).Weaver - Good sustained dps; decent burst dps, high self heal capabilities and decent mobility. If scourges boon corrupts weren't as common, Weaver would definitely qualify for the spot as one of the most annoying specialization to fight. Not only do they have an incredibly high damage potential but their also able to heal from 30% hp to 100% when allowed to pull off their healing combo.Special note: Staff tempest or weaver, when not focused can also be a major pain in the ass for the opposing group, having access to several CCs and aoe damage.

Necromancer - Again, play the elite specs. When only having access to the core game; go with a traditional terromancer or procmancer.Reaper - Definitely still a strong pick, and is actually quite a strong counter to scourges. Trailblazers may no longer be as strong due to death chill nerf but vipers and powers are still strong picks for wvw roaming dps.Scourge - Strong pick. Nuff said. Good damge and team support. Can be picked off when focused.Necro are still one of the most polarizing and complained about class by the community. Goes to show the amount of impact it has.

Mesmer - Play the elite specs. If only core game, power mesmer probably best option. Decent rare support abilities in the form of mass invis, moa signet and portal.Chronomancer- Strong pick choice. Whether condi (Vipers not Trailblazers) or Power, the chronomancer is able to burst a target down incredibly quickly (especially enemy rangers).Mirage - I haven't played this much, I still prefer the chronomancer. However, both condition mirage and power mirages are strong picks. With good stomp securing, stun breaks, decent condi cleanses and mobility.

I agree that FB + Scourge combo is one of the more successful ones out there atm, but teams incredibly focused on one aspect are also strong; eg. Power burst Chrono/Mirage, daredevil, ranger, dragonhunter etc. to focus fire targets down. Theres a reason why 3-4 daredevil squads are both annoying and potentially deadly. Every professions has their strengths and weaknesses. Individual player skill is definitely more important. Why scourges and support FB has been popular is due to the relative straight forwardness of the elite specs, in which they have high aoe dps (scourge) or support (fb) potential, in the hands of a relatively less skilled player.

edit: formatting.

Very good stuff!!