[Spoilers] Olmakhan and the Khan-Ur claim.

A thought occurs when playing through the living world story and meeting the Olmakhan. Imperator Smodur is currently by far the most powerful Charr leader, and has the claw of the Khan-Ur. He is, like all imperators, descended from the Khan-Ur, if memory serves. However, the leader of all Charr needs to be at the head of all four High Legions. Could the Olmakhan serve as substitute for the Flame Legion, given that they are technically Flame Shamans? I have seen speculation about a Charr expansion focusing on the Blood Legion Homelands, but ultimately can there even be a Khan-Ur without the Flame Legion or a substitute thereof rallying behind Smodur the Unflinching?

The Flame legion is not considered to be part of the charr people anymore. Therefore, a khan-ur doesn't have to rule flame legions to be considered as the khan-ur by the Blood, Iron and Ash legions. But it could be the only way to reunites te charr once and for all

I, too, am really excited about a charr focused expansion. It would be the occasion to resolve a great number of plots (flame legions, blood legions homeland, peace with humans, ebonhawke, ect...)

If it is to happens, I really hope the Olmakhan will have a role to play in it.They obviously can't speak for Flame legions but they probably gonna send some of them as ambassadors (Bottica?).However, I'm not sure about what they should do. They have a very different culture from tyrians charrs right now and I don't think they will change their ways (at least not in the events of the game).A for the khan-ur. Well, technically, you have to be an imperator to become one. So, even if one of the Olmakhan appeared to be a descendant of the Khan-Ur (We know that Karlla was the daughter of the blood legions imperator, maybe she has some relations with them), they're not fit for the title.

The claw will have to play a part. So, who is to become the Khan-Ur? Smodur with his dream of progress and cooperation? Blood legions imperator (can't remember his name) and the return of the war? Some inspiring and nuanced new leader of the Flame legions seeking for reunification? We shall see

Smodur seems like the most obvious choice, but he could also be a contentious one and hence be a source of welcomed tension in a new expansion. But the Black Citadel and the Iron Legion are at the core of the Charr fantasy, I think, perhaps more so than the Blood Legion. Plus, he has the Claw, and has secured cooperation with the Blood and Ash (alliance, even, at least with the Ash Legion). The best parts of the Living Story, in my opinion, are the ones that expand on a particular race's lore and structures. An expansion focused on the Charr could be intriguing and bring out a ton of nuances while talking about a race as old as the original game itself, which would be the proper way to handle old lore.

Well, there are three possible candidates, because Flame Legion has lost its imperator. I don't know if they found a new one yet.We have Smodur the Unflinching, current Imperator of the Iron Legion,Bangar Ruinbringer, powerful Imperator of Blood Legion andMalice Swordshadow, mysterious Imperator of Ash Legion.

Sadly, we only ever met Smodur. Well him and Imperator Baelfire, twice. I'd love to know more about the other Imperators. Does Malice recieve Information and/or money from the Blacklion Trading Company?Where is the Red Citadel, Bangar's seat of power, how does the Imperator of Blood conduct himself?

And then there's another question:If one of these becomes Khan Ur, he or she might need to appoint a replacement Imperator of his/her respective legion. We know that an Imperator must be a descendant of the Khan Ur, but how strict is this requirement? Also, do the Fahrars keep record of a given charr's parents? If so, they can actually determine who is, and who is not a descendant of the Khan Ur. Do you count matrilineally, patrilineally or both? How many charr in todays society descend from the Khan Ur?Probably a lot, given charr society and their attitude towards procreation.Given all this, it seems likely an Imperator will be succeeded by one of his Tribunes. They will be checked for fitting lineage, and before they are inaugurated, a challenger may claim the title for himself. The challenger is likely another tribune, who is in some way related to the Khan Ur. They take it to the arena and the victor/survivor gets to become the new Imperator.

The process to claim the title of Khan Ur is likely similar, but since every legion will want to claim the title, there will be a lot more challengers. These will be far more determined, since this position can make or break charr society.

I think matrilinear and patrilinear legitimacy would both be valid, given the place some female Charr like Kalla Scorchrazor have had in Charr society, and the lack of any visible gendered divide as far as I can see. Which would ultimately mean that there could be dozens of Charr capable of taking over an Imperator position. We know quite little about the rules of succession, save that places of power are usually gained via merit or violence. It would be quite helpful to know how Imperators came to be in power in the first place: Bangar probably slaughtered his way to the top, Malice probably blackmailed and backstabbed, but Smodur? Did he smash heads or did he have another way to climb the greasy pole?

I think the question about the Black Lion company is really interesting, but I'm not sure if ArenaNet will ever give a solid answer, or even if I would want to, because just hints that it might be the case is tantalizing.

From the personal story, we know that there is such a thing as keeping track of parents in Fahrars, as evidenced by the character creation, so I'm not even sure that there would be that much magic involved.

But ultimately, there is one question we should all ask: will we finally get to know where Rytlock's warband is and how he got that bloody sword? Especially since he's a Tribune of the Blood Legion, which puts him in a pivotal position for any fundamental shift in power. Assuming the Blood Legion has higher numbers than the others and has about ten Tribunes, Rytlock still has his reputation and some amount of seniority to give him the ascendancy in the Blood Legion hierarchy in case Bangar dies or ascends (just look at Fierhan Sparwind's dialogue). With Logan becoming Pact Marshall, are we about to see Rytlock become Blood Legion Imperator?

There is some potential for answers and evolution in character building, but it depends on how deep a dive ArenaNet is ready to do into strands of underexplored lore, I guess.

I had a similar thought a while back about the Olmakhan. With the Flame Legion "destroyed", rather than lose an entire legion, the Olmakhan have a legitimate claim to the heritage of this fallen legion without the evil baggage. They could well serve as the foundation of a redeemed fourth legion of the charr.

Question is whether they want to do this. I don't think it's likely. But it's also not likely they can stay hidden away anymore. The rest of the world will eventually find out about them and that includes the High Legions... and the remnants of the Flame Legion.

while I also have an interest in an expansion in the lands of the Charr, I have reservations about turning one of the emperors of Charr into a GW2 version of Daelin Proudmoure.

@"CETheLucid.3964" said:I had a similar thought a while back about the Olmakhan. With the Flame Legion "destroyed", rather than lose an entire legion, the Olmakhan have a legitimate claim to the heritage of this fallen legion without the evil baggage. They could well serve as the foundation of a redeemed fourth legion of the charr.

Question is whether they want to do this. I don't think it's likely. But it's also not likely they can stay hidden away anymore. The rest of the world will eventually find out about them and that includes the High Legions... and the remnants of the Flame Legion.

I think it's worth observing here that each of the four High Legions is functionally a country. The Iron Legion controls a territory the size of Kryta, the Blood Legion, by all indications, have an even bigger one, and if the Flame had about as much territory north of their Citadel as they did south, that's still roughly on par with the asura or sylvari core territories.

Against that, the Olmakhan have... a village. One as large as most towns, granted, but even the Flame Legion could've populated Atholma several times over. Add to that that the Olmakhan are effectively on the other side of the world... they're simply too small and too distant to matter in Legion politics. I doubt anyone in Iron or Flame is giving them any more thought than we in the US would if we rediscovered a lost hippie commune on an island off the coast of Argentina.

I honestly doubt any of the tribunes has the real power to unite the Charr. IMO the most likely candidates are Rytlock (Because plot privileges) and Almorra Soulkeeper, who was the real force behind the Charr/Human truce and all the "new Charr culture".

@Aaron Ansari.1604 said:I doubt anyone in Iron or Flame is giving them any more thought than we in America would if we rediscovered a lost hippie commune on an island off the coast of Argentina.Sorry to be pedantic, but you know Argentina IS in America, right? This example is SO blatant I beg you to use the complete name of your country, please.EDIT: Thank you a ton for the change, Aaron. Is good to see people being able to show fairness in these little things. Thanks.

I agree with the point that the Olmakhan are a small community at best. But the Claw of the Khan-Ur has four gems for a reason. Four High Legions. It is doubtful that any Khan-Ur can appear without either the Olmakhan providing a symbolic stand-in for the Flame Legion, or some tectonic shift happening with the Flame Legion... which would be about time, since Gaheron Baelfire has been dead for five years at this point in time.

As for whether an Imperator would have that kind of power... yes, I think Smodur could, with Malice's support. The Charr are one of the most technologically advanced race, and that is due in no small part to the fact that the Iron Legion has considerable know-how when it comes to building machines of war. Now, to say that Smodur could easily seize power would be wildy inaccurate. But of all the players on the board, he is the most powerful. As for Rytlock, I don't believe he would become Khan-Ur. Imperator, maybe, but having him be the leader of all Charr would basically tell the player "hey, one of your mates is now possibly the most powerful military leader in the known world", which is problematic for a number of reasons. Racial leaders embody a race's idiosyncracies, and the fact that they need coaxing is tribute to the fact that every race is different. Having Rytlock as the Khan-Ur eradicates these idiosyncracies for the Charr.

This is all assuming Smodur actually wants there to even be a Khan-Ur. He's pretty much one of the most forward thinking Charr, being the one to really start engaging in diplomacy with other races. He might even think the concept of Khan-Ur to be outdated, but not all Charr think this way, as evidenced by how some Iron Legion soldiers have ambient dialogue where they want to kick the other two out of Ascalon when the ghost problem is over. Outright destroying the claw would create political instability between the Legions that he cannot risk while the Ascalonian ghosts remain a threat so the safest thing to do is just... nothing.

Really, you have to ask:-"What reasons do I want to become Khan-Ur?"-"What will becoming Khan-Ur achieve in the long run?"-"How would I maintain power as Khan-Ur?"-"Are the benefits to keeping the claw and position of Khan-Ur hostage instead?"

Smodur's goal is the advancement of the Iron Legion. If he determined that coexistence and obtaining mutual growth with the rest of Tyria is the best course of action for his Legion, just holding the claw hostage plays best into his strategy, slowly let the concept die in obscurity, demonstrate how the Iron Legion is becoming a powerhouse without the need for a single leader, and get more and more Charr used to mingling with other races. Unilaterally declaring himself Khan-Ur and trying to enforce peace would not only create strife between the Legions, but the Blood Legion in particular would probably flat out rebel. Keeping the position hostage prevents the other two Legions from making risky plays while allowing the Iron Legion itself to consolidate power and growth from being the focal point of trade between Charr and the rest of the world.