I don't want condi scourge nerfed

It's not my main and it does do a ton of damage, especially if there is more than one. But i think there has to come a point where we should expect the playerbase to learn about mechanics and how to make good judgements about when it is a good idea to dive into a point.

Too many peope play with the idea that if they are not on the control point 24/7, then they are losing, even if they have to stand in every red circle imaginable. Maybe this is a fault on anet's part for not having better tutorials, but shouldn't we as a community at least begin policing eachother better on what good plays are and when they should be made?

We have lots of guides littered across the internet but i think what we need is a standardized and up to date guide that at least begins to inform players on how to respond to certain classes and when and where to rotate.

Sometimes rotations feel like too much guesswork, and it can be, but i don't think we've really created a standard on what rotations are appropriate based on what your team comp is and what your enemy's comp is.

tl;dr: i don't think scourge should be nerfed just because players insist that they should be able to sit in a point and not die unless they're in a 2v1. players should be taught to understand that if an enemy has a scourge, you need to either focus it down first and ignore the point, or send a ranged dps class to harass the scourge so you can take the point or contest it.

I am not one to call for Scourge to be nerfed as I think i still need to learn how to fight them before I can complain that they are OP. But from what I can tell based on my own playing so far and the forums, it seems like Scourge is basically a hard counter to just about every melee class (maybe not SB?). Yeah, DE and LB Ranger can handle them but most classes aren't built for heavy range damage. So you get Scourge controlling points as well as any bunker build. But dealing so much damage you can't just ignore them like you often could with bunker builds.

For my own, I have just decided that all necros get targeted first and I remind any ranged users to focus them down ASAP. Can't control their point and ruin melee players if they die. Target them, pop your heaviest burst and hope 1-2 others do the same and you can bring him down quickly. Then hope there isn't a second Scourge so you can actually stomp him. Nothing more frustrating than downing that Scourge in 2 seconds then the entire team dying because the field is littered with aoes (or avoiding the aoes and letting him get up almost immediately but now your burst is done).

It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

I find necros have way to many conditions, but the firebrand bunker build can handle them and cleanse for your whole team actually most of the time when i face a necro as a bunker firebrand they die to my f1 tomes. and the f3 #4 is great to make every one immune to condis. I think you should try the firebrand bunker build and learn all the spells they are gr8 for you to carry a team you do not do alot of dmg but you are hella support

@chibbi.3706 said:It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

If you think thats whats killing you...

Oh and tome 1 skills are good for mobility to get across the map fast also at least you have swiftness available without having to use a speed rune.

@Druh.1092 said:I find necros have way to many conditions, but the firebrand bunker build can handle them and cleanse for your whole team actually most of the time when i face a necro as a bunker firebrand they die to my f1 tomes. and the f3 #4 is great to make every one immune to condis. I think you should try the firebrand bunker build and learn all the spells they are gr8 for you to carry a team you do not do alot of dmg but you are hella support

What do you use, out of curiousity? Was looking to try FB in spvp. Seems like it would have a high skill ceiling (which might be a bad thing for me!)

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@chibbi.3706 said:It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

That's not killing me, I kill people with it.

Scourge is at an odd place. Against clueless teams that just rush a point I feel like I'm breaking the game, downing 3 people at a time. Then you play against teams that know what they're doing and I might as well be AFK the entire match.

Considering we have other professions do almost double the damage a max scourge can do... It's safe to say... we're getting nerfed cos anet hates necro and is happy to see other classes hit 40/50k dps

@HardRider.2980 said:Considering we have other professions do almost double the damage a max scourge can do... It's safe to say... we're getting nerfed cos anet hates necro and is happy to see other classes hit 40/50k dps

Those dps numbers are pretty irrelevant since they are referring to PvE dps builds against a stationary golem.

@Omcrazy.4756 said:

@Druh.1092 said:I find necros have way to many conditions, but the firebrand bunker build can handle them and cleanse for your whole team actually most of the time when i face a necro as a bunker firebrand they die to my f1 tomes. and the f3 #4 is great to make every one immune to condis. I think you should try the firebrand bunker build and learn all the spells they are gr8 for you to carry a team you do not do alot of dmg but you are hella support

You didn't ask me, but i also run bunker FB and i use magi amulet, valor, honor, FB. cleanse mantra, heal mantra, elite mantra. contemplation of purity, smite conditions. mace/shield/focus. I can pretty much keep my entire team alive through despite scourge condis via constant condi cleansing from tome of resolve (5 and 2). you also cleanse for allies with mantra of lore. the meditations are for your own sustain so you can save resolve for your team.

And you don't see a problem with a spec completely taking control over points in a conquest mode? In a tournament setting this might not be an issue, but in solo Q this is absolutely disastrous, as is currently the case.

You can have a ranged glass cannon to counter the necro, but who's going to protect the glass cannon? You're going to assign someone to do that too? SoloQ can't handle that level of organization.

At least bunkers have to give up damage.

@Daharahj.1325 said:And you don't see a problem with a spec completely taking control over points in a conquest mode? In a tournament setting this might not be an issue, but in solo Q this is absolutely disastrous, as is currently the case.

You can have a ranged glass cannon to counter the necro, but who's going to protect the glass cannon? You're going to assign someone to do that too? SoloQ can't handle that level of organization.

At least bunkers have to give up damage.

Any power based burst class dumpster scourges and there are plenty of DH's and thieves out there that can take care of themselves. Scourges should probably be tuned down a bit but I think a shift in meta is more appropriate.

I undersand a certain scourge skill is bugged, it hit twice and because of it cause double effect than intended thats a bug, it'll be fix rather than nerfed

With that said, since weaver, firebrand, scourge, soulbeast and probably other elite specs are breaking the previous dps benchmarks for pve, we should expect damage nerfs to hit a lot of things. What remains to be seen is what will be split between pve and pvp and what won't be.

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@chibbi.3706 said:It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

LOL. ofc it is. when scourge procs all traits to shade, hitting with 20 stacks of torment etc. (especially if your team has mesmer or scourge), u get killed by 2 secs if u cant clear ALL condies at same time. Scourge walks to point, puts shade to his feet, and u have to run away if you dont have powerful enough ranged atk.

I like the idea of scourge, but it's condi dmg is OP atm. Then again spellbreakers 1v1 survivability and dmg are too OP to stand on point and challenge them (and they rip all boons off you.) And Soulbeasts Gazelle can crit 13K (sometimes 50K if procs all traits) and deadeye can stealth atk with 15K crit dmg. These are all way too much when thinking mass of ppl who doesnt know or want to learn every mechanic this game has.

People are quickly learning how to counter Scourge, but just like DHs last expansion, you will always have players that don't learn. Same is true with Spellbreaker although Full Counter is definitely over budget for one (almost spammable) ability. Right now, you're really just hearing cries from bad or uninformed players because not enough time has passed to see a true representation of "Meta". A pro player was on stream literally 2 days ago just learning about what Full Counter did. If a pro player is still learning, then feedback from XYZ bronze rager is not valuable at this point.

Imagine if Burn guardians, 1 shot mesmers, or condi thieves were just released this patch...you would be hearing the exact same whining.

Personally, if I had to make a prediction, I'd say that Holosmith and Soulbeast will have a huge role in the meta and probably the things that need individual nerfs. Some of ridiculous mobility of Holo (more than a thief) is probably not intended...and Soulbeast has some super exploitable combos for ridiculous damage that probably weren't intended or noticed yet. Just wait...or go onto a duel server...what profession are you seeing win the most? Overall, things are fairly well balanced for the release of a new expansion. Crying right now is premature.

@Omcrazy.4756 said:

@HardRider.2980 said:Considering we have other professions do almost double the damage a max scourge can do... It's safe to say... we're getting nerfed cos anet hates necro and is happy to see other classes hit 40/50k dps

Those numbers are nor irrelevant since Anet refuses to split balance necromancers, and every nerf to pvp hits pve to the point necromancers are useless in and rejected from pve end game, aka raids.

@chibbi.3706 said:It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

@chibbi.3706 said:It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

It's not. If it was, it would have been fixed before PoF launched. Dhuumfire is working as intended. F5 basically pulses the shade auto attack so each auto attack causes a burn.

@HardRider.2980 said:Considering we have other professions do almost double the damage a max scourge can do... It's safe to say... we're getting nerfed cos anet hates necro and is happy to see other classes hit 40/50k dps

That DPS against a stationary golem is not a useful metric in PvP.

Scourge can currently force everyone on the opposing team off the point or face imminent death. A firebrand (one of those 40-50k DPS classes you mention) can't do that because the burn would generally be cleansed too quickly.

well i read alot of comments here and there throughout the forums today and heard alot of people complaining thier op and thier circles are everywhere. they do too much dmg etc. heard some people say thier strong but dont nerf them . in my opinion as someone who has NOT bought PoF yet it has certainly been a hard time trying to find a spec in hot or vannila that can combat them. they do have an immense amount of condi they cant just be to hard to clear or send back. that being said.. i eventually did find a spec that allows me to 1v1 them, a mix of 70%power 30% condi and alot of sendback, i find they are weak vs power strong vs melee. as a reaper i find you just stay just outside thier circles or aoe fileds and hit them from there. avoid thier big cds just run away and let it burn out that get back on them. they are real strong but they got thier weakness aswell. although.. im still afraid of them.. would always prefer to not be alone vs them and i do feel the better counter vs scourge is a scourge

@MethaneGas.8357 said:

@chibbi.3706 said:It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

@chibbi.3706 said:It will get nerfed because the fact that they do so much damage is a bug.

That's not the bug.

The bug is that shade auto attacks stack despite the fact that ArenaNet has stated that they are not supposed to.

I honestly hope they do stack. otherwise I'm worried how low the dps might get if they nerf it. i certainly would prefer if they made the big shade into more of a support shade with increased cleanse and barrier along with a 10 ally max cap.

@Omcrazy.4756 said:I am not one to call for Scourge to be nerfed as I think i still need to learn how to fight them before I can complain that they are OP. But from what I can tell based on my own playing so far and the forums, it seems like Scourge is basically a hard counter to just about every melee class (maybe not SB?). Yeah, DE and LB Ranger can handle them but most classes aren't built for heavy range damage. So you get Scourge controlling points as well as any bunker build. But dealing so much damage you can't just ignore them like you often could with bunker builds.

For my own, I have just decided that all necros get targeted first and I remind any ranged users to focus them down ASAP. Can't control their point and ruin melee players if they die. Target them, pop your heaviest burst and hope 1-2 others do the same and you can bring him down quickly. Then hope there isn't a second Scourge so you can actually stomp him. Nothing more frustrating than downing that Scourge in 2 seconds then the entire team dying because the field is littered with aoes (or avoiding the aoes and letting him get up almost immediately but now your burst is done).

You said that like this is a game that has a 60 second death timer