Sylvani Question — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Sylvani Question

Are sylvani always linked to the Pale Tree (telepathy)?
Or is it something like only in their sleep?
Or, once they "awaken", they're essentially on their own?

Vidaaryn: Norn Ranger, male, Leatherworker & Huntsman
Morgynne: Sylvari Engineer, Cook & Jewelcrafter

Comments

  • A bit of Column A and a bit of Column C. This is probably your best source on the matter.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Don't forget the Soundless, who voluntarily cut their connection from the dream to pursue an independent existance. They lose the Pale Tree's protection in doing so.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 14, 2018

    Malyck is a Sylvari assumed to be from another "Pale Tree," and doesn't have a connection to THE Pale Tree.

    During Heart of Thorns,

    we find out the Pale Tree is a purified version of a Blighting Tree/a Blighting Tree is a corrupted Pale Tree (the former is more likely) and that Mordrem are born of Blighting Trees. Mordrem aren't exactly Sylvari, but they're at least cousins (you might argue Sylvari are a subset of Mordrem like a Mordrem Husk or Mordrem Wolf). There is no evidence that the Mordrem experience the Dream, and have no connection to the Pale Tree. All Sylvari are vulnerable to Mordremoth, including the player character (who resists it).

  • @TunaDan.1205 said:
    Are sylvani always linked to the Pale Tree (telepathy)?
    Or is it something like only in their sleep?
    Or, once they "awaken", they're essentially on their own?

    There is always a connection, but it becomes largley one-way in most circumstances once they Awaken, in that they give knowledge to the Dream (via the Pale Tree). There are some two-ways about it though, like the Wyld Hunt.

    It is possible to reduce this connection to nigh-nothing though, as that is what the Soundless do via meditation. However, if the need is great enough and the force strong enough, Wyld Hunts and the Pale Tree can still get to the Soundless.

    It should be noted that, as Hesacon said, only sylvari of the Pale Tree are known to have this mental connection. Mind you, there's only one tree confirmed to be the same kind as the Pale Tree which made sylvari - Malyck's Tree - and the only sylvari met from said tree was Malyck, but he had no connection to the Dream of Dreams.

    Spoilers for Heart of Thorns and Season 2:

    The Dream of Dreams is also part of the sylvari's protection against dragon corruption, which is why the Pale Tree gets attacked during Season 2. Incidentally, the Dream of Dreams - specifically the channels of it that produce the Wyld Hunts and Dark Hunts (Nightmare's variant of the Dream's Wyld Hunts) - is how Mordremoth mentally attacks sylvari, bombarding them with thoughts that results in many of them turning to serve Mordremoth despite no true compulsion over their will (unlike other dragon minions which have no free will, even mordrem). As Hesacon mentioned, there's no evidence mordrem are connected to the Dream, thus they would be like Malyck; they are, however, still part of Mordremoth's hive mind unlike sylvari (including Malyck, by all evidence).

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    During Heart of Thorns,

    we find out the Pale Tree is a purified version of a Blighting Tree/a Blighting Tree is a corrupted Pale Tree (the former is more likely) and that Mordrem are born of Blighting Trees. Mordrem aren't exactly Sylvari, but they're at least cousins (you might argue Sylvari are a subset of Mordrem like a Mordrem Husk or Mordrem Wolf). There is no evidence that the Mordrem experience the Dream, and have no connection to the Pale Tree. All Sylvari are vulnerable to Mordremoth, including the player character (who resists it).

    Technically, sylvari would be mordrem that got freed from Mordremoth's hive mind and will enslavement. In a similar light, the Unchained are risen who were freed from Zhaitan's hive mind and will enslavement.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2018

    @TunaDan.1205 said:
    Are sylvani always linked to the Pale Tree (telepathy)?
    Or is it something like only in their sleep?
    Or, once they "awaken", they're essentially on their own?

    Sylvari are linked to the Pale Tree (they were to Mordremoth too, but after his death, they are not anymore), even the Nightmare courtiers are, the exception are Malyck and the Soundless.

    Their dream is kind of the impuls what to do in their life on Tyria, they do not dream the same thing everytime. Although there are Sylvari that have had 2 and more Wyld Hunts which are the special tasks from the Dream: The Sylvari Player Character and Caithe.

    They can seek the guidance in the Pale Tree's wisdom, which is just repeated Ventari's tablet's teachings. The exceptions are the Courtiers. Malyck is kind of open to her wisdom, but he doesn't really understand it.

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 15, 2018

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Although there are Sylvari that have had 2 and more Wyld Hunts which are the special tasks from the Dream: The Sylvari Player Character and Caithe.

    Another special thing about Caithe and the Sylvari player character(s) is that they are the only ones who had a Wyld Hunt that involves was hinted by confronting the shadow of the dragon directly in the Dream.

  • @zencow.3651 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Although there are Sylvari that have had 2 and more Wyld Hunts which are the special tasks from the Dream: The Sylvari Player Character and Caithe.

    Another special thing about Caithe and the Sylvari player character(s) is that they are the only ones who had a Wyld Hunt that involves was hinted by confronting the shadow of the dragon directly in the Dream.

    This is untrue. A lot of sylvari witnessed the Shadow of the Dragon in the Dream (source). However, only Caithe and the PC had a Wyld Hunt to slay an Elder Dragon - other sylvari only have Wyld Hunts to fight their corruption, champions, and/or minions in general.

    Though the PC is even more unique in that their Wyld Hunt changed from killing Zhaitan to killing Mordremoth. According to Trahearne and the PC, it wasn't a new Wyld Hunt but the same one returning, which would indicate that unlike Caithe, the PC's Wyld Hunt is more "kill Elder Dragons currently and actively threatening the Pale Tree/Dream of Dreams/Tyria" (wonder if they got one to kill Kralkatorrik yet...).

  • zencow.3651zencow.3651 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 16, 2018

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    This is untrue. A lot of sylvari witnessed the Shadow of the Dragon in the Dream (source).

    It is the Pale tree herself that tells you only Caithe and the sylvari player being the only two who confronted the Shadow in the personal story.

    Also from that source itself:
    Scholar Caterin interviewed dozens of her fellow sylvari who claimed to have seen the Shadow of the Dragon in the Dream. She concludes that only one such report has any credibility. (For sylvari characters it continues:) ..., that of <<>Character name<>>

    Caithe being secretive as she is wouldn't make such a claim.

  • @zencow.3651 said:
    It is the Pale tree herself that tells you only Caithe and the sylvari player being the only two who confronted the Shadow in the personal story.

    She says no such thing.

    Character name: If I may ask, Mother-in my dream, I also saw a fierce, horrible dragon. I've been told it is my Wyld Hunt to face this monster. Is that true?
    Avatar of the Tree: I fear that it is. A Wyld Hunt is a sacred thing, a burden placed by the Dream upon the strongest and bravest of my children.
    Avatar of the Tree: In your Dream, you fought an Elder Dragon face-to-face. Only two of my children have had such a dream. You, and Caithe.
    Avatar of the Tree: All sylvari fight the dragon's servants, the undead, but I believe you will face Zhaitan itself. I also believe you will prevail.

    The Pale Tree states that only Caithe and the sylvari PC had a Wyld Hunt to kill Zhaitan. But witnessing the Shadow of the Dragon != a Wyld Hunt to kill Zhaitan.

    In addition to that in-game source, there's also this:

    The sylvari are a young race, yet they face challenges from within and without. A rare few sylvari have seen the shadows of the Elder Dragons in the Dream, warnings of the danger that menaces the awakened world. As a result, the sylvari perceive the global threat posed by the Elder Dragons more clearly than the other races. Undead minions of Zhaitan crawl from the Sea of Sorrows to despoil sylvari land with alarming frequency.

    Yet the minions of the Elder Dragon are only one threat among many. There are sylvari who seek the shadow within the Dream and who explore the darker side of their personalities. These merciless Nightmare Court sylvari seek to add their nightmares to the Pale Tree with each act of cruelty and evil in the hope of leading all sylvari into the darkness.
    [...]
    Your story begins in the Dream itself, before you awake. If you successfully confront the shadow within the Dream, you will awaken, like all sylvari, in the Caledon Forest, under the Pale Tree. A new world of adventure, beauty, and danger awaits you!

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/sylvari/

    So it's not exactly common, but it's not so unique that only two ever witnessed the Shadow of the Dragon.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @zencow.3651 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Although there are Sylvari that have had 2 and more Wyld Hunts which are the special tasks from the Dream: The Sylvari Player Character and Caithe.

    Another special thing about Caithe and the Sylvari player character(s) is that they are the only ones who had a Wyld Hunt that involves was hinted by confronting the shadow of the dragon directly in the Dream.

    This is untrue. A lot of sylvari witnessed the Shadow of the Dragon in the Dream (source). However, only Caithe and the PC had a Wyld Hunt to slay an Elder Dragon - other sylvari only have Wyld Hunts to fight their corruption, champions, and/or minions in general.

    Though the PC is even more unique in that their Wyld Hunt changed from killing Zhaitan to killing Mordremoth. According to Trahearne and the PC, it wasn't a new Wyld Hunt but the same one returning, which would indicate that unlike Caithe, the PC's Wyld Hunt is more "kill Elder Dragons currently and actively threatening the Pale Tree/Dream of Dreams/Tyria" (wonder if they got one to kill Kralkatorrik yet...).

    Isn't weird, though?

    I mean why didn't the Dream of Dreams warn the Sylvari that killing Dragons is wrong? Why there wasn't any Sylvari that got such a Dream?

    Maybe it was never wrong to kill the Dragons after all?

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Maybe it was never wrong to kill the Dragons after all?

    Maybe someone hadn't come up with that storyline yet.

    Anyway, the Pale Tream/Dream doesn't know more than the Sylvari collectively know, and the Sylvari didn't know any more than the other races that killing dragons was harmful.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Maybe it was never wrong to kill the Dragons after all?

    Maybe someone hadn't come up with that storyline yet.

    Anyway, the Pale Tream/Dream doesn't know more than the Sylvari collectively know, and the Sylvari didn't know any more than the other races that killing dragons was harmful.

    But the Pale Tree knew that the Glint's Egg was important, and can't fall into the wrong hands. So basically... The Pale Tree had the knowledge of this powerful object, and later in the trailer Caithe says: This Egg could be the key to defeat the Dragons (Tangled Paths).
    The Pale Tree gives Sylvari the knowledge about the world they are going to, but the knowledge of the Forgotten was sealed from the Pale Tree, from the Dream of Dreams, because the Pale Tree was pretty sure that we HAVE to kill Zhaitan, and there is no reason not to. So she didn't know about the consequences of this action. So it kinda leads me to this thought that the Pale Tree has an access to some interesting and impressive things, but not to everything, she seems like a mist, you can see it, but when you enter it, it goes further away from you- she has this knowledge, but when you are getting closer to her you get no clear answer/no answer at all.

    Just a small out of topic thing: what if we would have taken the Egg before Caithe... Would the Egg connect with us back then in the Silverwastes in the episode: Tangled Paths?

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Maybe it was never wrong to kill the Dragons after all?

    Maybe someone hadn't come up with that storyline yet.

    Anyway, the Pale Tream/Dream doesn't know more than the Sylvari collectively know, and the Sylvari didn't know any more than the other races that killing dragons was harmful.

    But the Pale Tree knew that the Glint's Egg was important, and can't fall into the wrong hands. So basically... The Pale Tree had the knowledge of this powerful object, and later in the trailer Caithe says: This Egg could be the key to defeat the Dragons (Tangled Paths).
    The Pale Tree gives Sylvari the knowledge about the world they are going to, but the knowledge of the Forgotten was sealed from the Pale Tree, from the Dream of Dreams, because the Pale Tree was pretty sure that we HAVE to kill Zhaitan, and there is no reason not to. So she didn't know about the consequences of this action. So it kinda leads me to this thought that the Pale Tree has an access to some interesting and impressive things, but not to everything, she seems like a mist, you can see it, but when you enter it, it goes further away from you- she has this knowledge, but when you are getting closer to her you get no clear answer/no answer at all.

    Just a small out of topic thing: what if we would have taken the Egg before Caithe... Would the Egg connect with us back then in the Silverwastes in the episode: Tangled Paths?

    Caithe was an associate of Glint, couldn't the Tree/Dream have learned about the eggs from her?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 17, 2018

    Ogden also knew about the egg, and the Priory knew about the All, but nothing suggests they knew that the world would die if too many Elder Dragons were killed without replacements.

    Though Ogden's words during Hidden Arcana also suggests that he's been working with others (that includes the Pale Tree) which have been working towards Glint's Legacy so he should have known about killing Elder Dragons being bad... Well, not the first time Anet wrote into new story directions without considering older scenarios. coughdragonweaknessesandzhaitancough

  • @perilisk.1874 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Maybe it was never wrong to kill the Dragons after all?

    Maybe someone hadn't come up with that storyline yet.

    Anyway, the Pale Tream/Dream doesn't know more than the Sylvari collectively know, and the Sylvari didn't know any more than the other races that killing dragons was harmful.

    That's not entirely true. There've been a few times when the Dream's popped out things that couldn't have come from the sylvari- the vision of the future from A Light In The Darkness, for instance, or the fact that the sylvari are linked to Mordremoth. Where that information does come from is an open question- the mind of Mordremoth? The soul of Tyria? The Mists? Until ANet decides the question's worth exploring, narrowing down an answer isn't going to be possible.

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    Caithe was an associate of Glint, couldn't the Tree/Dream have learned about the eggs from her?

    Unlikely. Destiny's Edge, including Caithe, if I recall correctly, are quite candid about not knowing that any of the eggs had survived... and given how Caithe reacted, if she had known, I expect she would've gone after it much sooner. There's also the matter of the vision including Tarir, which nobody outside the inner jungle and the Glint's Legacy conspiracy seemed to know about.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

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