[Suggestion] Balancing mesmers — Guild Wars 2 Forums

[Suggestion] Balancing mesmers

viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
edited January 26, 2019 in Mesmer

From a mesmer main point of view about PvP :
Goals are :

  • reduce the gap between specs and core.
  • reduce mindless efficient gameplay.
  • keep mesmer specificity.
  • reduce overall illusions spam.
  • There is nerf, there is up but with a post number refine, it adress most common players issues and improve tactic gameplay.

Old version :

@viquing.8254 said:
# Traits
## Domination
Shattered Concentration : 2 boons removed instead of 1 (due to clone production reduction.).
Furious interruption : 1 sec icd instead of 3 (split for PVE if there are problem with this.).
## Duel
Critical infusion : back to 5 sec vigor or make every class 3 sec duration.
Evasive mirror : increase the icd to 2 sec instead of 1,5 because it give too easy reflect chain.
## Chaos
Mirror of Anguish : make it pop a charge of 1,5sec distortion ready because a full reset of distortion is too strong IMO.
## Inspiration
Restorative Mantras : make the heal dependant of the mantra cooldown time and activate on mantra use instead of cast.
Protected Phantasms : phantasms give mesmer aegis after they get destroyed.
Add somewhere a trait about glamours skills !
## Illusions
nothing
## Chronomancer
Delayed Reactions : reduce the icd (split for PVE is issues.).
All's Well That Ends Well : Increase well's radius to 360.
Chronophantasma : phantasms land 2 attacks before becoming a clone. No longer pop 2 phantasms.
## Mirage
Mirage Cloak : Reduce mirage cloak duration to 0.75 sec instead of 1 sec.
Speed of Sand : Increase the superspeed duration to 1.25 sec instead of 1 sec.
Dune Cloak : make mirage mirror bombs who trigger when a ennemy run into it and apply them bleed,cripple, damage instead of when mesmer run into it. create a mirage mirror when evade.

# Skills
## Greatsword
Mind Stab : Remove 3 boons, does damage per boons removed.
Illusionary Wave : make it bump people on downstate like many other class can do.
Split Surge : halve might and vulnerability duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.
## Staff
Phantasmal Warlock : summon only one illusion instead of two.
Chaos Armor : clean one condi on activation.
Chaos Vortex : halve duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.
## Scepter
Ether Bolt, Ether Blast, Ether Clone : increase damage coef.
Illusionary Counter : Reduce base damage, create only one clone.
Counterspell : add 1 bounce.
Confusing Images : make damage increasing each hit. (example : 10-20-30-40-50-60-70. or every two hit : 10-10-20-20-30-30-40 NB: value aren't factual.)
Ether Barrage : reduce the number of hit to 3, increase the mesmer damage.
## Sword MH
Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.
Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)
Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage.
Illusionary Leap : give me https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_of_Faith . More seriously : double the clone life or give him 1 sec evade.
## Pistol
nothing
## Sword OH
Illusionary Riposte : reduce the damage.
Counter Blade : add damage when interrupt.
Phantasmal Swordsman : Condensate the number of attacks.
## Focus
Temporal Curtain : remove the after cast as long as we are in a meta where many class have instant hard CC aoe or increase the wall duration to 6 sec.
Phantasmal Warden : can he not get killed himself by hitting a war with retaliation ? Increase damage coefficient and (increase phantasm HP or condensate the number of hits (while conserving the bubble duration.)).
## Torch
nothing
## Shield
Echo of Memory : can we have a utilitary phantasm or a dps phantasm but not a 3 in 1 phantasm ?
Tides of Time : can we drop the wall from behind like deflecting shot ?
## Axe
Lingering Thoughts : increase the forward distance to 400. (more way to counter but more usefull, also less spammy.)
Axes of Symmetry : remove the break targeting or the evade.
Imaginary Axes : halve clone torment duration.
## Shatters
Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)
Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. (Involves redoing PVE chrono balance.)
## Heal
Mantra of Recovery : increase the healing coefficient on Power Return, make the cast trigger runes effects. (centaur...)
## Signets
Signet of Illusions : bring back some illusion health increase.
Signet of Domination : make it compete with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Binding_Shadow .
## Mantra
Mantra of Pain : 10 sec cooldown, 10 might(10sec),Power Spike do same things as now but add burn and bleed to justify the CD increase.
Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead.
## Manipulation
Arcane Thievery : why 2 sec aftercast with Master of Manipulation ?
## Glamour
Null Field : increase the CD and increase boons/conditions removed.
Feedback : heal mesmer when a projectile is reflected.
Portal Entre : Bring back 60 sec duration but add 30 sec CD if portal Exeunt is used.
## Illusions
Decoy : remove the cancel activation time effect.
Phantasmal Defender : I really prefer the old version who reduce damage on mesmer.
## Wells
Well of ACtion : pulse 1 sec quickness, 1 sec slow each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec slow.
Well of Calamity : increase damage per tick and final.
Well of Precognition : reduce the CD to 25.
Well of Recall : pulse 1 sec alacrity, 1 sec chill each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec Alacrity.
## Deceptions
Sand through Glass : increase the distance to 600 or reduce the CD.
Crystal Sands : if it's a aoe damage skill, make it does real damage please.
## Elite
Signet of Humility : add a moa form training in heart of the mist. Reduce the CD.
Time Warp : make it blockable, reduce the CD.
Jaunt : remove ammo on it. If it's a damage skill, increase the direct damage and condition duration. If it's a mobility skill, remove the confusion&damage, increase the range to 900.


Updated version :

Traits

Domination

Shattered Concentration : 2 boons removed instead of 1 (due to clone production reduction.).
Furious interruption : 1 sec icd instead of 3 (split for PVE if there are problem with this.).

Duel

Critical infusion : back to 5 sec vigor or make every class 3 sec duration or reduce the ICD.
Duelist Discipline : @Solori.6025 suggest to lower the bleed from phantasms from 100% to 50% increase bleed duration from 3s to 6s. Less burst, more damage over time.
Evasive mirror : My suggestion was to increase the icd to 2 sec instead of 1,5 because it give too easy reflect chain. @tinyreborn.1938 suggest to increase it to 5 sec icd but it will a dead trait then. Maybe start by a 2 or 3 sec icd to see what happpened before doing too much.

Chaos

Mirror of Anguish : make it pop a charge of 1,5sec distortion ready because a full reset of distortion is too strong IMO. Or increase the CD to 90.

Inspiration

Restorative Mantras : make the heal dependant of the mantra cooldown time and activate on mantra use instead of cast.
Protected Phantasms : phantasms give mesmer aegis after they get destroyed. Contrary to @Solori.6025, I didn't think it would be op because it compete with the condiclear trait.
Add somewhere a trait about glamours skills !

Illusions

nothing

Chronomancer

Delayed Reactions : reduce the icd (split for PVE is issues.).
All's Well That Ends Well : Increase well's radius to 360.
Chronophantasma : phantasms land 2 attacks before becoming a clone. No longer pop 2 phantasms. Or let the mesmer do the skills of the phantasm or give phantasm a 1 sec invul to make sure they land the second attack. But no longer pop 2 phantasms to trigger every phantasms/illusions on pop effects twice! = no more abyssal gap between core and chrono because chrono can extrapolate core mecanics.

Mirage

Mirage Cloak : Reduce mirage cloak duration to 0.75 sec instead of 1 sec. Have to test it in combinaison with speed of sand change.
Speed of Sand : Increase the superspeed duration to 1.25 sec instead of 1 sec.
Dune Cloak : make mirage mirror bombs who trigger when a ennemy run into it and apply them bleed,cripple, damage instead of when mesmer run into it. create a mirage mirror when evade.

Skills

Greatsword

Mind Stab : Remove 3 boons, does damage per boons removed.
Illusionary Wave : make it bump people on downstate like many other class can do.
Split Surge : halve might and vulnerability duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.

Staff

Phantasmal Warlock : summon only one illusion instead of two. Balance then the alone phantasm. => illusions fiesta isn't fun for anyone.
Chaos Armor : clean one condi on activation.
Chaos Vortex : halve condi duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack. = the opponent have to care more about mesmer attacks than clone attacks.

Scepter

Ether Bolt, Ether Blast, Ether Clone : increase damage coef.
Illusionary Counter and counterspell : Reduce base damage, create only one clone. Rework counterspell to be more impactfull. It suffer the same problem as Illusionary Riposte : the block hit the mesmer target and not the guys who trigger it. So the idea is to make the active part more impactfull (in term of damage) than the block part.
Confusing Images : make damage increasing each hit. (example : 10-20-30-40-50-60-70. or every two hit : 10-10-20-20-30-30-40 NB: value aren't factual.) It will do the same damage as now but just give the opponent 0.5 sec more time to react before eating the full damage. It's optional.
Ether Barrage : reduce the number of hit to 3, increase the mesmer damage. = less projectile festa, the opponent have to care more about mesmer attacks than clone attacks.

Sword MH

Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.
Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)
Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage(of course keep the current blur.)
Illusionary Leap : give me https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_of_Faith . More seriously : double the clone life or give him 1 sec evade.

Pistol

nothing

Sword OH

Illusionary Riposte and Counter Blade: reduce the damage on Illusionary Ripost, increase the damage on Counter Blade. The main idea with illusionary riposte and counter blade is to end the easy 3-4 k instant 900 range because it pop on mesmer target not on the guy who triggered it. So weak the block and upgrade the active part of this skill. We can even think of the active be some gapcloser or repositionnement skill.
Phantasmal Swordsman : Condensate the number of attacks. One hit as before mean it will fail on many aegis/blind but static attack chain mean it will do only average 2 hits on the 5 hits chain. This phantasm is also very telegraphied.

Focus

Temporal Curtain : remove the after cast as long as we are in a meta where many class have instant hard CC aoe or increase the wall duration to 6 sec.
Phantasmal Warden : can he not get killed himself by hitting a war with retaliation ? Increase damage coefficient and (increase phantasm HP or condensate the number of hits (while conserving the bubble duration.)).

Torch

nothing

Shield

Echo of Memory : increase the aoe of the fantasm attack.
Tides of Time : make it castable in all directions.

Axe

Lingering Thoughts : rework. My suggestion was to make it a more efficient gap closer.
Axes of Symmetry : rework. I suggest to remove the break targeting or the evade because they are too much redondant. Maybe remove the evade on this skill to keep the detarget mirage signature and put some think on lingering thoughts to compensate the loss of the evade. Dunno what would be better but actually even if the damage output of this skill isn't that good, there is a conception problem on it IMO.
Imaginary Axes : halve clone torment duration. + from 3 torments for 8 sec make it 2 torment for 12 sec (1 torment for clone then.). This skill is the main damage output of mirage actually and the visibility of the projectile isn't that good.

Shatters

Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. Involves redoing PVE chrono balance. But then mesmer balance will be released from chrono exponential core skill use. (and a max 8 sec health and position back will also be a good skill. Way less balance issue and not dead skill either.)

Heal

Mantra of Recovery : increase the healing coefficient on Power Return, make the cast trigger runes effects. (centaur...)

Signets

Signet of Illusions : bring back some illusion health increase or something but the passive is meh.
Signet of Domination : make it compete with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Binding_Shadow .

Mantra

Mantra of Pain : 10 sec cooldown, 10 might(10sec),Power Spike do same things as now but add burn and bleed to justify the CD increase. We disagree about this in the discussions but I didn't find it sane to have a gameplay based on 1 spammable skill.
Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead. Contrary to @Solori.6025, I think a hard CC after a 2.25 cast time will never be op.

Manipulation

Arcane Thievery : why 2 sec aftercast with Master of Manipulation ? (aka why when we use this skills with master of manipulation, the reflect pop 3 sec later ?)

Glamour

Null Field : as long as powercreep exist, it would be good to rework it a little (add 1 tic or 2 for example.).
Feedback : heal mesmer when a projectile is reflected. (just for funny test and because with this kind of utility sustain, many builds can pop out.)
Portal Entre : Bring back 60 sec duration but add 30 sec CD if portal Exeunt is used.

Illusions

Decoy : remove the cancel activation time effect. (Aka don't get rupt when you are doing something.)
Phantasmal Defender : I really prefer the old version who reduce damage on mesmer.

Wells

In general about well, if they put the raduis increase suggestion in All's Well That Ends Well trait, it will probably be better to first test it with no change.
Well of Action : pulse 1 sec quickness, 1 sec slow each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec slow.
Well of Calamity : increase damage per tick and final.
Well of Precognition : reduce the CD to 25. Some find it fine as it is.
Well of Recall : pulse 1 sec alacrity, 1 sec chill each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec Alacrity.

Deceptions

Sand through Glass : increase the distance to 600 or reduce the CD.
Crystal Sands : if it's a aoe damage skill, make it does real damage please.

Elite

Signet of Humility : add a moa form training in heart of the mist. Reduce the CD or revert nerfs (no more double moa with chrono F5.).
Mass invis : think about the synergy with master of manipulation.
Time Warp : increase the duration or decrease the CD. (no more double with chrono F5.)
Jaunt : remove the damage and condi, revert the ammo and CD nerfs.

Comments

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019

    Echo of Memory : can we have a utilitary phantasm or a dps phantasm but not a 3 in 1 phantasm ?

    Its highest cooldown on block in entire game? 35 seconds ?Its base damage with power amulet 975 . Its crit 2k on light golem...EVEN MORE its the only 1 phantasm that can be EVADED to other counterplays above. If anything the shield phantasm need a buff, not nerf and make 100% spawn regardless of dodge or not.

    Tides of Time : can we drop the wall from behind like deflecting shot ?

    Just revert all nerfs and make it being castable in all directions with 1/2s cast time. Shield skills have insane long CDs ,thats not even funny

    Lingering Thoughts : increase the forward distance to 400. (more way to counter but more usefull, also less spammy.)

    This skill need buff or rework...so bad it is... reason why its got a nerf to hush crybabies

    Axes of Symmetry : remove the break targeting or the evade.

    If you will remove evade, remove all evades on every ranger weapon please ,and thief spammable evades as well, I'm sure they have more than mesmer. Im all for removing every single evade from every existing weapon ,lets stop this evade spam ?

    Signet of Humility : add a moa form training in heart of the mist. Reduce the CD.

    Make it match rampage cd. 72s cd pls

    Evasive mirror : increase the icd to 2 sec instead of 1,5 because it give too easy reflect chain.

    5s icd
    Smol addition:
    Axe ambush -> from 3 torments for 8s make it 2 torments for 12s . Less burst more damage over time if not cleansed . BAM-> Less burst damage and would make mirage stronger in LONGER fight as they said in last update while did nothing towards this

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    Its highest cooldown on block in entire game? 35 seconds ?Its base damage with power amulet 975 . Its crit 2k on light golem...EVEN MORE its the only 1 phantasm that can be EVADED to other counterplays above. If anything the shield phantasm need a buff, not nerf and make 100% spawn regardless of dodge or not.

    I wasn't clear : make it dps phantasm so reduce utility effect but make it does real damage or make it utility phantasm so drop damage and make it does real utility effect.
    The actual problem like with many of other skills is that they do many things bad instead of doing one good.
    Agree for the 100% pop.

    This skill need buff or rework...so bad it is... reason why its got a nerf to hush crybabies

    That's why with a longer range it can be used as a gap closer. (And btw every mirage use it under mirage cloak.)

    If you will remove evade, remove all evades on every ranger weapon please ,and thief spammable evades as well, I'm sure they have more than mesmer. Im all for removing every single evade from every existing weapon ,lets stop this evade spam ?

    I'm just pointing that evade and target break are supposed to do the same thing : temporize (evade > break target yeah.). So why put 2 of this in a single skill ?

    Evasive mirror : increase the icd to 2 sec instead of 1,5 because it give too easy reflect chain.

    5s icd

    At last with 2 sec icd the previous mirror didn't proc the next and the mesmer need to use an evade.

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    Its highest cooldown on block in entire game? 35 seconds ?Its base damage with power amulet 975 . Its crit 2k on light golem...EVEN MORE its the only 1 phantasm that can be EVADED to other counterplays above. If anything the shield phantasm need a buff, not nerf and make 100% spawn regardless of dodge or not.

    I wasn't clear : make it dps phantasm so reduce utility effect but make it does real damage or make it utility phantasm so drop damage and make it does real utility effect.
    The actual problem like with many of other skills is that they do many things bad instead of doing one good.
    Agree for the 100% pop.

    Its obvious :>

    This skill need buff or rework...so bad it is... reason why its got a nerf to hush crybabies

    That's why with a longer range it can be used as a gap closer. (And btw every mirage use it under mirage cloak.)

    Only reason to use axe 2 because you have absolutely nothing to move urself forward abit ,clone spawn unreliable, damage from skill is trash, effect from skill is trash and need to be melee and if u ever use it ,you have to burn DODGE which I dont want to do to, to cover useless trash skill that does nothing. No thanks!

    If you will remove evade, remove all evades on every ranger weapon please ,and thief spammable evades as well, I'm sure they have more than mesmer. Im all for removing every single evade from every existing weapon ,lets stop this evade spam ?

    I'm just pointing that evade and target break are supposed to do the same thing : temporize (evade > break target yeah.). So why put 2 of this in a single skill ?

    Porting melee range to die from random attack ,you want it?Why you dont like evade spam removal from the game? Mirage lose way less than ranger and thief in that regard
    Distarget is 1 of features mirage offer,currently only IA and axe do it

    Evasive mirror : increase the icd to 2 sec instead of 1,5 because it give too easy reflect chain.

    5s icd

    At last with 2 sec icd the previous mirror didn't proc the next and the mesmer need to use an evade.

    Only 5 seconds or even 10 , its proc OFF EVERY single EVADE from weapon too , a ii d s

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 8, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    From a mesmer main point of view about PvP :

    Goals are :

    • reduce the gap between specs and core.
    • reduce mindless efficient gameplay.
    • keep mesmer specificity.
    • reduce overall illusions spam.

    There is nerf, there is up but with a post number refine, it adress most common players issues and improve tactic gameplay.

    Traits

    Domination

    Shattered Concentration : 2 boons removed instead of 1 (due to clone production reduction.).
    Furious interruption : 1 sec icd instead of 3 (split for PVE if there are problem with this.).

    I can dig it.

    Duel

    Critical infusion : back to 5 sec vigor or make every class 3 sec duration.
    Evasive mirror : increase the icd to 2 sec instead of 1,5 because it give too easy reflect chain.

    Also good, though if they insist on the 3s I would lower the ICD to 7s

    Chaos

    Mirror of Anguish : make it pop a charge of 1,5sec distortion ready because a full reset of distortion is too strong IMO.

    I would actually just increase the ICD to 90s like almost every other passive trait.

    Inspiration

    Protected Phantasms : phantasms give mesmer aegis after they get destroyed.

    That could be a little to strong, but would need to be tested.

    Add somewhere a trait about glamours skills !

    ^

    Chronomancer

    Delayed Reactions : reduce the icd (split for PVE is issues.).
    All's Well That Ends Well : Increase well's radius to 360.
    Chronophantasma : phantasms land 2 attacks before becoming a clone. No longer pop 2 phantasms.\

    I wonder if it would be possible to let the mesmer do the skills of the phantasm?
    As they are now phantasm's can be killed with all the AoE spread, So a resummon was done so they can at least start the second attack.
    Would probably be better to give them a 1s invuln after the initial strike to make the trait worthwhile.

    Mirage

    Mirage Cloak : Reduce mirage cloak duration to 0.75 sec instead of 1 sec.

    This is a bad idea, It was bad in testing, will be bad again. Though if they added a small movement dash to the dodge I would say this would be a good change.
    Actually I would much rather they did that- Add a dash component or a distance component to Mirage cloak at the expense of .25s duration.

    Speed of Sand : Increase the superspeed duration to 1.25 sec instead of 1 sec.

    If these two were going hand in hand .25s isn't enough to justify moving 200m

    Dune Cloak : make mirage mirror bombs who trigger when a enemy run into it and apply them bleed,cripple, damage instead of when mesmer run into it. create a mirage mirror when evade.

    This is a really interesting idea I would say bleed,cripple, and weakness. Would make sand through glass and actual relevant utility. Right now that thing is trash.

    Skills

    Greatsword

    Mind Stab : Remove 3 boons, does damage per boons removed.

    I like.

    Illusionary Wave : make it bump people on downstate like many other class can do.

    For the LOLS

    Split Surge : halve might and vulnerability duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.

    good change.

    Staff

    Phantasmal Warlock : summon only one illusion instead of two.

    You would need to buff the warlock and possibly speed up the attack.

    Chaos Armor : clean one condi on activation.

    Nice- would make chaos armor a lot better if they added aegis to it, and took it off of chaos storm- and added another condi in its place, could trade the confusion on chaos armor.

    Chaos Vortex : halve duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.

    It's a condi weapon. I don't think it needs more power. But lowering the condi output would be really nice.

    Scepter

    Ether Bolt, Ether Blast, Ether Clone : increase damage coef.

    Again this is a condi weapon. It doesn't need super high damage coef.'s

    Illusionary Counter : Reduce base damage, create only one clone.

    Increase the CD to 10s untraited, Lower the amount of torment from 5 to 3. in pvp only- Bring it in line with other condition applications

    Counterspell : add 1 bounce.

    good

    Confusing Images : make damage increasing each hit. (example : 10-20-30-40-50-60-70. or every two hit : 10-10-20-20-30-30-40 NB: value aren't factual.)

    This is a condition weapon at its core. Lower the damage coef. Add torment- If you get hit with a full channel you end up with 7 stacks of confus. 5 stacks of torment.
    I don't think a weapon that has a block AND applies conditions should also have one of the highest channeled damage coef. in the game. It should stay as a condi weapon, it doesn't need the damage it has now.

    Ether Barrage : reduce the number of hit to 3, increase the mesmer damage.

    I think this is fine as is, So I would pass on this suggestion.

    Sword MH

    Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.
    Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)

    I think the weapon is fine as is. Wouldn't say no to more boon removal though.

    Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage.

    No. This is a terrible change and does nothing for the weapon.
    Now if you want to redesign blurred frenzy to work like unrelenting assualt I would be all for it. But this change to retail is a hard pass, and a hard no.

    Illusionary Leap : give me https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Leap_of_Faith . More seriously : double the clone life or give him 1 sec evade.

    Would be better if this worked like mirage advance.

    Pistol

    nothing

    I have something. Duelist Discipline-> Lower the bleed from phantasms from 100% to 50% increase bleed duration from 3s to 6s ( I realize this is a trait, shoulda mentioned it up top)

    Sword OH

    Illusionary Riposte : reduce the damage.

    I think the damage is fine..It's a power weapon.....

    Counter Blade : add damage when interrupt.

    They have a trait for that....

    Phantasmal Swordsman : Condensate the number of attacks.

    Would be better if they just reverted the change and made it strike once like it did before.

    Focus

    Temporal Curtain : remove the after cast as long as we are in a meta where many class have instant hard CC aoe or increase the wall duration to 6 sec.
    Phantasmal Warden : can he not get killed himself by hitting a war with retaliation ? Increase damage coefficient and (increase phantasm HP or condensate the number of hits (while conserving the bubble duration.)).

    Torch

    nothing

    Shield

    Echo of Memory : can we have a utilitary phantasm or a dps phantasm but not a 3 in 1 phantasm ?

    With the nerfs this phantasm received it's fine as is. But I would not be opposed to losing the protection on summon and would rather gain it on successful block.

    Tides of Time : can we drop the wall from behind like deflecting shot ?

    I think it's fine as is...Though I wouldn't be opposed to having the old tides iteration back.

    Axe

    Lingering Thoughts : increase the forward distance to 400. (more way to counter but more usefull, also less spammy.)
    Axes of Symmetry : remove the break targeting or the evade.

    Both of these are fine as they are.
    Only change to Axes of Symmetry would be to lower the amount of confusion the player does from 6 to 3 for 6s

    Imaginary Axes : halve clone torment duration.

    good change.

    Shatters

    Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)

    This shatter is fine as is. So No to this change as you nerf EVERY build that uses the extra damage component for finishing a target.
    Unless you add the damage back to Mindwrack, which would make that shatter extreme. So I would leave these alone.

    Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. (Involves redoing PVE chrono balance.)

    The current iteration of CS is fine. With the change to mimick I don't see how this is an issue. Especially when this skill can be interrupted by a player killing the rift. Which apparently people forget is possible.

    Heal

    Mantra of Recovery : increase the healing coefficient on Power Return, make the cast trigger runes effects. (centaur...)

    Signets

    Signet of Illusions : bring back some illusion health increase.

    I think the signet is fine now. So not really needed change.

    Signet of Domination : make it compete with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Binding_Shadow .

    Lower CD from 45 to 35s

    Mantra

    Mantra of Pain : 10 sec cooldown, 10 might(10sec),Power Spike do same things as now but add burn and bleed to justify the CD increase.

    Lower Might generation would be better.
    This is a power mantra. So no to the burn and bleed ( we don't need more easy access to condi) If you are going to add a 10s CD increase the damage by 20-25%

    Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead.

    ..No..The quickness is fine. Too much CC is not good, and if they buff the dom signet then this honestly is fine as is. Besides you have mantra of distraction for CC. Lets leave it at that.

    Manipulation

    Arcane Thievery : why 2 sec aftercast with Master of Manipulation ?

    Because it is an unblockable boon rip which most people don't see coming and lose 3 boons. It is fine the way it is now.

    Glamour

    Null Field : increase the CD and increase boons/conditions removed.

    Null field is fine as it is. It's competitive without being too restrictive. So no.

    Feedback : heal mesmer when a projectile is reflected.

    No. Not necessary at all

    Portal Entre : Bring back 60 sec duration but add 30 sec CD if portal Exeunt is used.

    I think they should make it 45s, this gives you time to actually make plays instead of being super restrictive like it is now.

    Illusions

    Decoy : remove the cancel activation time effect.

    Decoy needs a CD decrease to 30s other than that it is fine.

    Phantasmal Defender : I really prefer the old version who reduce damage on mesmer.

    Same

    Wells

    Well of ACtion : pulse 1 sec quickness, 1 sec slow each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec slow.

    Good change

    Well of Calamity : increase damage per tick and final.

    I can get behind this, but the CD would need to be increased slightly. To much damage in AoE's isn't really fun. Especially since the well adds weakness and cripple. We don't need more AoE one shots.

    Well of Precognition : reduce the CD to 25.

    This is fine as it is so no. If you want to buff it- increase the duration. Otherwise it's fine.

    Well of Recall : pulse 1 sec alacrity, 1 sec chill each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec Alacrity.

    Would be good.

    Deceptions

    Sand through Glass : increase the distance to 600 or reduce the CD.

    Would rather the CD reduction.

    Crystal Sands : if it's a aoe damage skill, make it does real damage please.

    Would rather it pulse a 3s field then spawn a mirror in the center. Though this skill is more of a pve skill so I dunno what use it could have. You can also side step the shards and take no damage. Kinda funny tbh

    Elite

    Signet of Humility : add a moa form training in heart of the mist. Reduce the CD.

    The amount of tears and hurt feelings from being a KFC special would overload the forums. So I am gonna say no on behalf of the little guy ( but I would totally be ok with this.)

    Time Warp : make it blockable, reduce the CD.

    Time warp is fine as is. So no.

    Jaunt : remove ammo on it. If it's a damage skill, increase the direct damage and condition duration. If it's a mobility skill, remove the confusion&damage, increase the range to 900.

    No to your nerfs for jaunt.
    With the way mirage works currently it should be more for movement and positioning. Remove the damage and condition application. Revert the ammo and CD nerfs.
    We honestly don't need more condition applicants and the damage it did was negligible and not seriously needed.

    Edit:
    A note on the Axes comment.
    As was pointed out. Axe 3 puts you in melee range with a short unspammable evade unlike thief S/d or S/p. I would be all for removing the Evade if they made the skill not put you directly in harms way with the ridiculously start up animation AND aftercast. I would be all for increasing the CD untraited to 12s ONLY IF they revert the damage nerfs the weapon has had.
    As it is now. I think lowering the confusion burst would be more beneficial without utterly killing the weapon.
    (While it is a condition weapon. It is also a melee weapon, and melee > range was the core philosophy of how weapons are balanced in this game.
    Axe was never a power house, but it shouldn't be trash either.)

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:
    Only reason to use axe 2 because you have absolutely nothing to move urself forward abit ,clone spawn unreliable, damage from skill is trash, effect from skill is trash and need to be melee and if u ever use it ,you have to burn DODGE which I dont want to do to, to cover useless trash skill that does nothing. No thanks!

    Problem is that as long as it is amo with short cd it can't be strong. that's why making it gap closer more efficient than now was the idea.
    Also remember that it is a 2 clones pop weapon.

    Porting melee range to die from random attack ,you want it?Why you dont like evade spam removal from the game? Mirage lose way less than ranger and thief in that regard
    Distarget is 1 of features mirage offer,currently only IA and axe do it

    Evade + distarget on the same skill is too much redondant. This skill will be trash with only distarget so remove distarget.

    Only 5 seconds or even 10 , its proc OFF EVERY single EVADE from weapon too , a ii d s

    Yeah but that said, since 2012, it is only actively used in PvP since last 6-8 months. So making it completly useless is nonsense too.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    Protected Phantasms : phantasms give mesmer aegis after they get destroyed.

    That could be a little to strong, but would need to be tested.

    Get in mind that there is no more chronophantasma repop.

    Chronophantasma : phantasms land 2 attacks before becoming a clone. No longer pop 2 phantasms.\

    I wonder if it would be possible to let the mesmer do the skills of the phantasm?
    As they are now phantasm's can be killed with all the AoE spread, So a resummon was done so they can at least start the second attack.
    Would probably be better to give them a 1s invuln after the initial strike to make the trait worthwhile.

    ok for the 1s, the main idea is that they don't trigger the illusions/phantasm effects twice so the gap between core mes and chrono is reduced.

    Mirage

    Mirage Cloak : Reduce mirage cloak duration to 0.75 sec instead of 1 sec.

    This is a bad idea, It was bad in testing, will be bad again. Though if they added a small movement dash to the dodge I would say this would be a good change.
    Actually I would much rather they did that- Add a dash component or a distance component to Mirage cloak at the expense of .25s duration.

    The idea is the combinaison with speed of sand duration increase. It was bad in testing because speed of sand was 0.75 duration not because of mirage cloak duration was 0.75 sec.

    Staff

    Phantasmal Warlock : summon only one illusion instead of two.

    You would need to buff the warlock and possibly speed up the attack.

    Of course it was so obvious that the alone phatasm have to be balanced that I didn't write it :)

    Chaos Vortex : halve duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.

    It's a condi weapon. I don't think it needs more power. But lowering the condi output would be really nice.

    I mean increase slightly the condi duration on mesmer ambush to compensate the halve on clone.

    Scepter

    Ether Bolt, Ether Blast, Ether Clone : increase damage coef.

    Again this is a condi weapon. It doesn't need super high damage coef.'s

    It always was a hybrid weapon.

    Illusionary Counter : Reduce base damage, create only one clone.

    Increase the CD to 10s untraited, Lower the amount of torment from 5 to 3. in pvp only- Bring it in line with other condition applications

    Right, increase a little the CD shouldn't make much hurt. I don't think it was that good to lowered that mush the condi application.

    Confusing Images : make damage increasing each hit. (example : 10-20-30-40-50-60-70. or every two hit : 10-10-20-20-30-30-40 NB: value aren't factual.)

    This is a condition weapon at its core. Lower the damage coef. Add torment- If you get hit with a full channel you end up with 7 stacks of confus. 5 stacks of torment.
    I don't think a weapon that has a block AND applies conditions should also have one of the highest channeled damage coef. in the game. It should stay as a condi weapon, it doesn't need the damage it has now.

    no, no, no it never was a core condi weapon, it always was a hybrid weapon. Increasing damage each hit mean more time reaction for opponents, that's just it.

    Sword MH

    Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.
    Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)

    I think the weapon is fine as is. Wouldn't say no to more boon removal though.

    The AA do meh damage compared to other melee and : other melee class have perma swiftness or put cripple on you so you rarely hit with auto.

    Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage.

    No. This is a terrible change and does nothing for the weapon.
    Now if you want to redesign blurred frenzy to work like unrelenting assualt I would be all for it. But this change to retail is a hard pass, and a hard no.

    Actually blurred frenzy do very bad damage and half of the time do more damage to the owner or allow the ennemy to flee away during the cast.
    How balance the damage so that it does what a 10 sec static spell is supposed to do a bad idea ?

    Illusionary Riposte : reduce the damage.

    I think the damage is fine..It's a power weapon.....

    Counter Blade : add damage when interrupt.

    They have a trait for that....

    The idea is to reduce a free 3-4k easy proc on low cd while giving a skilled way to do damage in compensation.

    Phantasmal Swordsman : Condensate the number of attacks.

    Would be better if they just reverted the change and made it strike once like it did before.

    Too much aegis/blind on many class, that's why a chain is in average better.

    Axe

    Lingering Thoughts : increase the forward distance to 400. (more way to counter but more usefull, also less spammy.)
    Axes of Symmetry : remove the break targeting or the evade.

    Both of these are fine as they are.
    Only change to Axes of Symmetry would be to lower the amount of confusion the player does from 6 to 3 for 6s

    Keep in mind that it is a 2 clone generation weapon. And about Axes of Symetry, I answered above to @tinyreborn.1938 .

    Imaginary Axes : halve clone torment duration.

    good change.

    Shatters

    Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)

    This shatter is fine as is. So No to this change as you nerf EVERY build that uses the extra damage component for finishing a target.
    Unless you add the damage back to Mindwrack, which would make that shatter extreme. So I would leave these alone.

    This shatter is fine but too linear in his effects, it can be improved with this kisscool effect.

    Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. (Involves redoing PVE chrono balance.)

    The current iteration of CS is fine. With the change to mimick I don't see how this is an issue. Especially when this skill can be interrupted by a player killing the rift. Which apparently people forget is possible.

    It is a issue because it create a gap with core elites.

    Mantra of Pain : 10 sec cooldown, 10 might(10sec),Power Spike do same things as now but add burn and bleed to justify the CD increase.

    Lower Might generation would be better.
    This is a power mantra. So no to the burn and bleed ( we don't need more easy access to condi) If you are going to add a 10s CD increase the damage by 20-25%

    This is a damage mantra so adding condi didn't seem weird. And the ICD is to finish the monokey gameplay.

    Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead.

    ..No..The quickness is fine. Too much CC is not good, and if they buff the dom signet then this honestly is fine as is. Besides you have mantra of distraction for CC. Lets leave it at that.

    Did you ever see this mantra used in PvP ?
    We don't need quickness after the cast but before to cast.

    Manipulation

    Arcane Thievery : why 2 sec aftercast with Master of Manipulation ?

    Because it is an unblockable boon rip which most people don't see coming and lose 3 boons. It is fine the way it is now.

    I mean why the reflect of master of manipulation came 2 seconds after using this skill ? how can you time a reflect with it ?

    Null Field : increase the CD and increase boons/conditions removed.

    Null field is fine as it is. It's competitive without being too restrictive. So no.

    Null field is only used when you need extra ether zone to jump in. His effect remain the same since ... long time whereas condi application and boon application get powercreep.

    Feedback : heal mesmer when a projectile is reflected.

    No. Not necessary at all

    Would you actually use feedback in PvP ? me no.
    Would you envisage burn a utilitary slot for it if it procure little sustain ? me maybe.

    Portal Entre : Bring back 60 sec duration but add 30 sec CD if portal Exeunt is used.

    I think they should make it 45s, this gives you time to actually make plays instead of being super restrictive like it is now.

    The idea is that it can be used to do 1 portal back than have a high CD.
    But at least to not make it a dead skill as now.

    Decoy : remove the cancel activation time effect.

    Decoy needs a CD decrease to 30s other than that it is fine.

    Signet of midnight : you start stomping, you activate signet, you stomp.
    Decoy : you start stomping, you activate decoy, it rupt stomp.
    It's not fine as it is actually.

    Phantasmal Defender : I really prefer the old version who reduce damage on mesmer.

    Same

    Wells

    Well of ACtion : pulse 1 sec quickness, 1 sec slow each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec slow.

    Good change

    Well of Calamity : increase damage per tick and final.

    I can get behind this, but the CD would need to be increased slightly. To much damage in AoE's isn't really fun. Especially since the well adds weakness and cripple. We don't need more AoE one shots.

    it's a 3 sec telegraphied burst in a little aoe, it must do something if someone sleep in it.

    Time Warp : make it blockable, reduce the CD.

    Time warp is fine as is. So no.

    I didn't saw time warp in PvP, so how it is fine as is ?

    A note on the Axes comment.
    As was pointed out. Axe 3 puts you in melee range with a short unspammable evade unlike thief S/d or S/p. I would be all for removing the Evade if they made the skill not put you directly in harms way with the ridiculously start up animation AND aftercast. I would be all for increasing the CD untraited to 12s ONLY IF they revert the damage nerfs the weapon has had.
    As it is now. I think lowering the confusion burst would be more beneficial without utterly killing the weapon.
    (While it is a condition weapon. It is also a melee weapon, and melee > range was the core philosophy of how weapons are balanced in this game.
    Axe was never a power house, but it shouldn't be trash either.)

    Dunno, confusion application from axe isn't already that good (usually I just don't attack during the 3 sec if I get hit by this.).

  • Okay, now do boonbeast.

  • incisorr.9502incisorr.9502 Member ✭✭✭

    so buff sword nerf scepter? sounds biased

    scepter doesn't need nerfs

    staff is the part where mesmer gets a lot of free condis w/o doing anything but staff is already not that great

    condi (mirage) is fine as it is , some other classes need nerfing instead

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Porting melee range to die from random attack ,you want it?Why you dont like evade spam removal from the game? Mirage lose way less than ranger and thief in that regard
    Distarget is 1 of features mirage offer,currently only IA and axe do it

    Evade + distarget on the same skill is too much redondant. This skill will be trash with only distarget so remove distarget.

    Then you run the risk of going away from the theme that mirage was made around. Also I think I see where the issue is. Anet doesn't balance things based on their similarities or how close in use the specs would be. Every spec has a theme and identity. You wont change that.
    But what you can propose is that within that theme things are in line with the game as a whole. While keeping the theme present.

    @Solori.6025 said:

    Protected Phantasms : phantasms give mesmer aegis after they get destroyed.

    That could be a little to strong, but would need to be tested.

    Get in mind that there is no more chronophantasma repop.

    I'm not just thinking about chrono phantasma. I'm thinking about the class and the interaction with both Mirage and Core.
    This would has a probability of being too strong. given that phantasms can be summoned every 15-20s
    The uptime would begin to directly compete with guardian, and we would never hear the end of it.
    Maybe add an ICD of 30s?
    Otherwise this has the potential to be a really bad thing and very much too powerful.

    Chronophantasma : phantasms land 2 attacks before becoming a clone. No longer pop 2 phantasms.\

    I wonder if it would be possible to let the mesmer do the skills of the phantasm?
    As they are now phantasm's can be killed with all the AoE spread, So a resummon was done so they can at least start the second attack.
    Would probably be better to give them a 1s invuln after the initial strike to make the trait worthwhile.

    ok for the 1s, the main idea is that they don't trigger the illusions/phantasm effects twice so the gap between core mes and chrono is reduced.

    >
    You may want to propose more things to make core desirable. Right now Core has some fundamental issues that wont be solved nerfing everything around it. Rather the issues it has need to be addressed.

    Mirage

    Mirage Cloak : Reduce mirage cloak duration to 0.75 sec instead of 1 sec.

    This is a bad idea, It was bad in testing, will be bad again. Though if they added a small movement dash to the dodge I would say this would be a good change.
    Actually I would much rather they did that- Add a dash component or a distance component to Mirage cloak at the expense of .25s duration.

    The idea is the combinaison with speed of sand duration increase. It was bad in testing because speed of sand was 0.75 duration not because of mirage cloak duration was 0.75 sec.

    Considering that you don't have the omni directional option to dodge and gain distance, the 1s was warranted and superspeed wont make up for the loss of that. It should be redesigned, and then nerfed. Or left alone.

    Staff

    Phantasmal Warlock : summon only one illusion instead of two.

    You would need to buff the warlock and possibly speed up the attack.

    Of course it was so obvious that the alone phatasm have to be balanced that I didn't write it :)

    This is the pvp subsection, you can't assume people want to logically rebalance. People would rather see the Mesmer deleted than balanced. So I would get in the habit of writing the obvious. Something to consider for the future.

    Chaos Vortex : halve duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.

    It's a condi weapon. I don't think it needs more power. But lowering the condi output would be really nice.

    I mean increase slightly the condi duration on mesmer ambush to compensate the halve on clone.

    I don't think that is necessary, we have enough condi.

    Scepter

    Ether Bolt, Ether Blast, Ether Clone : increase damage coef.

    Again this is a condi weapon. It doesn't need super high damage coef.'s

    It always was a hybrid weapon.

    Was it? I figured staff acted more like a hybrid weapon given what it offered vs scepter. But we will have to agree to disagree here.

    Illusionary Counter : Reduce base damage, create only one clone.

    Increase the CD to 10s untraited, Lower the amount of torment from 5 to 3. in pvp only- Bring it in line with other condition applications

    Right, increase a little the CD shouldn't make much hurt. I don't think it was that good to lowered that mush the condi application.

    Considering what the skill offers and the CD of it. Comparatively, a reduction would be healthy to bring it in line with other weapons and skills with Similair benefits and CD.

    Confusing Images : make damage increasing each hit. (example : 10-20-30-40-50-60-70. or every two hit : 10-10-20-20-30-30-40 NB: value aren't factual.)

    This is a condition weapon at its core. Lower the damage coef. Add torment- If you get hit with a full channel you end up with 7 stacks of confus. 5 stacks of torment.
    I don't think a weapon that has a block AND applies conditions should also have one of the highest channeled damage coef. in the game. It should stay as a condi weapon, it doesn't need the damage it has now.

    no, no, no it never was a core condi weapon, it always was a hybrid weapon. Increasing damage each hit mean more time reaction for opponents, that's just it.

    hmm. Maybe. We would have to see. It may work out with your suggestion.

    Sword MH

    Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.
    Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)

    I think the weapon is fine as is. Wouldn't say no to more boon removal though.

    The AA do meh damage compared to other melee and : other melee class have perma swiftness or put cripple on you so you rarely hit with auto.

    Mesmer can also put cripple on a player and has access to plenty of cleansing if that is a concern. Besides that doing a quick gloss over of the damage coef. Mesmer sword has one of the highest finishing, and comparable starting to every sword on other classes as far as AA's go.

    Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage.

    No. This is a terrible change and does nothing for the weapon.
    Now if you want to redesign blurred frenzy to work like unrelenting assualt I would be all for it. But this change to retail is a hard pass, and a hard no.

    Actually blurred frenzy do very bad damage and half of the time do more damage to the owner or allow the ennemy to flee away during the cast.
    How balance the damage so that it does what a 10 sec static spell is supposed to do a bad idea ?

    Blurred Frenzy is a punishment skill. Part defense part offense. Can be used to add sustainability and do damage. What you are proposing to do. Is gut that aspect of the weapon for a strippable and corruptable boon, while giving it more damage that could then be interrupted, while keeping the mesmer static in one place. You may as well redesign the skill because that is terrible.

    Illusionary Riposte : reduce the damage.

    I think the damage is fine..It's a power weapon.....

    Counter Blade : add damage when interrupt.

    They have a trait for that....

    The idea is to reduce a free 3-4k easy proc on low cd while giving a skilled way to do damage in compensation.

    You would have to buff the back-end pretty significantly then to compensate. Again it's a power weapon, and comparatively to other combat blocks.
    It's in line.

    Phantasmal Swordsman : Condensate the number of attacks.

    Would be better if they just reverted the change and made it strike once like it did before.

    Too much aegis/blind on many class, that's why a chain is in average better.

    Chain would be great if the phantasm followed the target and attacked. You can move away or kill it. Then it does no damage.
    But this will be another thing we can agree to disagree on.

    Axe

    Lingering Thoughts : increase the forward distance to 400. (more way to counter but more usefull, also less spammy.)
    Axes of Symmetry : remove the break targeting or the evade.

    Both of these are fine as they are.
    Only change to Axes of Symmetry would be to lower the amount of confusion the player does from 6 to 3 for 6s

    Keep in mind that it is a 2 clone generation weapon. And about Axes of Symetry, I answered above to @tinyreborn.1938 .

    It is a 2 clone generation as long as you dont get stunned or have the wonderful interaction of it not spawning a clone because you got sidestepped, or somehow find yourself out of range at the end.

    Imaginary Axes : halve clone torment duration.

    good change.

    Shatters

    Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)

    This shatter is fine as is. So No to this change as you nerf EVERY build that uses the extra damage component for finishing a target.
    Unless you add the damage back to Mindwrack, which would make that shatter extreme. So I would leave these alone.

    This shatter is fine but too linear in his effects, it can be improved with this kisscool effect.

    If it isn't broke don't fix it. Time and energy could be used elsewhere.

    Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. (Involves redoing PVE chrono balance.)

    The current iteration of CS is fine. With the change to mimick I don't see how this is an issue. Especially when this skill can be interrupted by a player killing the rift. Which apparently people forget is possible.

    It is a issue because it create a gap with core elites.

    It's the theme of the specialization. Also not an issue. What's the theme of Core Mesmer. If we figure that out, wecan make improvements to it.

    Mantra of Pain : 10 sec cooldown, 10 might(10sec),Power Spike do same things as now but add burn and bleed to justify the CD increase.

    Lower Might generation would be better.
    This is a power mantra. So no to the burn and bleed ( we don't need more easy access to condi) If you are going to add a 10s CD increase the damage by 20-25%

    This is a damage mantra so adding condi didn't seem weird. And the ICD is to finish the monokey gameplay.

    I wouldn't add condi to a power mantra. It's been a power damage mantra since its inception, Only causing an issue with its spammable might generation.

    Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead.

    ..No..The quickness is fine. Too much CC is not good, and if they buff the dom signet then this honestly is fine as is. Besides you have mantra of distraction for CC. Lets leave it at that.

    Did you ever see this mantra used in PvP ?
    We don't need quickness after the cast but before to cast.

    Then I would add it on activation.
    And no I didn't use this in Spvp ( though I did in WvW) As I found the slot could be used for something better.

    Manipulation

    Arcane Thievery : why 2 sec aftercast with Master of Manipulation ?

    Because it is an unblockable boon rip which most people don't see coming and lose 3 boons. It is fine the way it is now.

    I mean why the reflect of master of manipulation came 2 seconds after using this skill ? how can you time a reflect with it ?

    Oh..yea the interaction with the trait is weird totally agree. Though they also need to fix it so it doesn't screw up Mass Invis.
    Though they could probably switch the categories and make MI a glamour.

    Null Field : increase the CD and increase boons/conditions removed.

    Null field is fine as it is. It's competitive without being too restrictive. So no.

    Null field is only used when you need extra ether zone to jump in. His effect remain the same since ... long time whereas condi application and boon application get powercreep.

    Considering the fact that every thing got powercreep how is changing a skill to have a higher CD going to help? It would be more beneficial and healthy for everything in the game if the powercreep with condies and boons was simply addressed, instead of compounding problems on top of it.

    Feedback : heal mesmer when a projectile is reflected.

    No. Not necessary at all

    Would you actually use feedback in PvP ? me no.

    I use this in WvW, and adding healing to it would make it pretty powerful...
    On second thought. Sure.. lets add healing to it.

    Portal Entre : Bring back 60 sec duration but add 30 sec CD if portal Exeunt is used.

    I think they should make it 45s, this gives you time to actually make plays instead of being super restrictive like it is now.

    The idea is that it can be used to do 1 portal back than have a high CD.
    But at least to not make it a dead skill as now.

    That's fair. I would like to see incremental increases to its duration though. As that is easier for the 3 people working on spvp balance to logically do.

    Decoy : remove the cancel activation time effect.

    Decoy needs a CD decrease to 30s other than that it is fine.

    Signet of midnight : you start stomping, you activate signet, you stomp.
    Decoy : you start stomping, you activate decoy, it rupt stomp.
    It's not fine as it is actually.

    AHHH that's what you meant. OK
    It functions similair to thief black powder i believe, though I don't see a reason to not make it function as the signet.
    You will get complaints though.

    Phantasmal Defender : I really prefer the old version who reduce damage on mesmer.

    Same

    Wells

    Well of ACtion : pulse 1 sec quickness, 1 sec slow each tic. The last tic pulse 3 sec quickness, 3 sec slow.

    Good change

    Well of Calamity : increase damage per tick and final.

    I can get behind this, but the CD would need to be increased slightly. To much damage in AoE's isn't really fun. Especially since the well adds weakness and cripple. We don't need more AoE one shots.

    it's a 3 sec telegraphied burst in a little aoe, it must do something if someone sleep in it.

    It should, but adding more powercreep isn't the answer. Would prefer it had something different at the end instead of just an AoE field ( which could be 360 with your change) with high damage, that will be put on the chopping block from the tears ..

    Time Warp : make it blockable, reduce the CD.

    Time warp is fine as is. So no.

    I didn't saw time warp in PvP, so how it is fine as is ?

    Time Warp was a staple in tournaments early on. The utility that it brought to the team was undeniable.
    You could possibly lower the CD, but the slow application synergizes with the already niche slow through time build.
    I don't see how a skill that does no damage but adds an unblockable slow is a problem.
    Why do you think it is?

    A note on the Axes comment.
    As was pointed out. Axe 3 puts you in melee range with a short unspammable evade unlike thief S/d or S/p. I would be all for removing the Evade if they made the skill not put you directly in harms way with the ridiculously start up animation AND aftercast. I would be all for increasing the CD untraited to 12s ONLY IF they revert the damage nerfs the weapon has had.
    As it is now. I think lowering the confusion burst would be more beneficial without utterly killing the weapon.
    (While it is a condition weapon. It is also a melee weapon, and melee > range was the core philosophy of how weapons are balanced in this game.
    Axe was never a power house, but it shouldn't be trash either.)

    Dunno, confusion application from axe isn't already that good (usually I just don't attack during the 3 sec if I get hit by this.).

    You would be absolutely surprised at how many people do.
    People spamming autos aside.
    We need to address the powercreep that is the condi application of Condi mirage.
    I think lowering the condition applied, and shifting that loss to power damage is a good start. Then raising the CD to 12s untraited which would make the player choose between the Axes trait or desert distortion would be healthy and would promote diversity within the line. This also gives you the option of what type of sustain you want. Since the devs said

    We want mirages to excel in longer combat engagements.

    It would be great to know What Core Mesmer is supposed to Excel at.
    What is their role?

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Shatters

    Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)

    This alone creates an even wider gap between power and condi where Condi gets to apply stacks and pressure on all 4 shatters, and Power after a change like this would have 1; now with a shatter lacking any scaling for it's damage, and not much else beyond phantasms as a follow up.

    Also OH Sword's Illusionary Riposte is fine. I wouldn't be opposed to phantasm changes though.

  • rework mesmers near non existing boonshare to make chrono support great again ! ( pvp build )

    Nerf is over the hill !

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @incisorr.9502 said:
    so buff sword nerf scepter? sounds biased
    scepter doesn't need nerfs

    Actually scepter is easy to perform and the block is really strong in the sense that it proc the damage and torment on your target and not on the guy who hit you during block. (Aka you can't realisticly evade the counter by not attacking the mesmer.)

    condi (mirage) is fine as it is , some other classes need nerfing instead

    I'm not talking about fine or not in the global meta, I'm talking about gameplay and fine in the mesmer world considering specs and core. (Btw fine in meta result just in ajusting number.)

    @Solori.6025 said:

    @Solori.6025 said:

    Protected Phantasms : phantasms give mesmer aegis after they get destroyed.

    That could be a little to strong, but would need to be tested.

    Get in mind that there is no more chronophantasma repop.

    I'm not just thinking about chrono phantasma. I'm thinking about the class and the interaction with both Mirage and Core.
    This would has a probability of being too strong. given that phantasms can be summoned every 15-20s
    The uptime would begin to directly compete with guardian, and we would never hear the end of it.
    Maybe add an ICD of 30s?
    Otherwise this has the potential to be a really bad thing and very much too powerful.

    It compete with the condi clear trait.

    Chronophantasma : phantasms land 2 attacks before becoming a clone. No longer pop 2 phantasms.\

    I wonder if it would be possible to let the mesmer do the skills of the phantasm?
    As they are now phantasm's can be killed with all the AoE spread, So a resummon was done so they can at least start the second attack.
    Would probably be better to give them a 1s invuln after the initial strike to make the trait worthwhile.

    ok for the 1s, the main idea is that they don't trigger the illusions/phantasm effects twice so the gap between core mes and chrono is reduced.

    >
    You may want to propose more things to make core desirable. Right now Core has some fundamental issues that wont be solved nerfing everything around it. Rather the issues it has need to be addressed.

    When you have spec who can exponentially use core mechanics, it's directly correlated, there is something to be done. It's not about nerfing, give chronophantasma other things if it's weak, the main idea is to decorrelate a GM spec trait with core mechanics.

    Mirage

    Mirage Cloak : Reduce mirage cloak duration to 0.75 sec instead of 1 sec.

    This is a bad idea, It was bad in testing, will be bad again. Though if they added a small movement dash to the dodge I would say this would be a good change.
    Actually I would much rather they did that- Add a dash component or a distance component to Mirage cloak at the expense of .25s duration.

    The idea is the combinaison with speed of sand duration increase. It was bad in testing because speed of sand was 0.75 duration not because of mirage cloak duration was 0.75 sec.

    Considering that you don't have the omni directional option to dodge and gain distance, the 1s was warranted and superspeed wont make up for the loss of that. It should be redesigned, and then nerfed. Or left alone.

    We really need to test it, I am convinced that it was the superspeed duration and not the evade frame who made it bad in testing.

    Chaos Vortex : halve duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.

    It's a condi weapon. I don't think it needs more power. But lowering the condi output would be really nice.

    I mean increase slightly the condi duration on mesmer ambush to compensate the halve on clone.

    I don't think that is necessary, we have enough condi.

    This is a really telegraphied obvious projectile ambush.

    Sword MH

    Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.
    Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)

    I think the weapon is fine as is. Wouldn't say no to more boon removal though.

    The AA do meh damage compared to other melee and : other melee class have perma swiftness or put cripple on you so you rarely hit with auto.

    Mesmer can also put cripple on a player and has access to plenty of cleansing if that is a concern. Besides that doing a quick gloss over of the damage coef. Mesmer sword has one of the highest finishing, and comparable starting to every sword on other classes as far as AA's go.

    Mesmer have to build up around cleanse if they want to, our cripple is far away from other melee class.
    Mesmer AA have relatively same coef/damage as other exept that :
    mesmer full chain : 2.48.
    rev full chain : 2.05.
    war full chain : 1.85.
    ranger full chain: 2.04.
    thief full chain: 1.88.
    ele fire full chain : 2.44.
    The 3rd mesmer chain do relatively same damage as other with boon.
    In practise, the slowness of the chain make it nearly impossible to hit with the 3rd.

    Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage.

    No. This is a terrible change and does nothing for the weapon.
    Now if you want to redesign blurred frenzy to work like unrelenting assualt I would be all for it. But this change to retail is a hard pass, and a hard no.

    Actually blurred frenzy do very bad damage and half of the time do more damage to the owner or allow the ennemy to flee away during the cast.
    How balance the damage so that it does what a 10 sec static spell is supposed to do a bad idea ?

    Blurred Frenzy is a punishment skill. Part defense part offense. Can be used to add sustainability and do damage. What you are proposing to do. Is gut that aspect of the weapon for a strippable and corruptable boon, while giving it more damage that could then be interrupted, while keeping the mesmer static in one place. You may as well redesign the skill because that is terrible.

    The offense part is ridiculous.
    Actually it is part time defense skill.

    Illusionary Riposte : reduce the damage.

    I think the damage is fine..It's a power weapon.....

    Counter Blade : add damage when interrupt.

    They have a trait for that....

    The idea is to reduce a free 3-4k easy proc on low cd while giving a skilled way to do damage in compensation.

    You would have to buff the back-end pretty significantly then to compensate. Again it's a power weapon, and comparatively to other combat blocks.
    It's in line.

    Nop, none other combat block do 3-4k at 900 range on a 15 sec CD.
    That said, Damage on rupt is redondant with trait, maybe make counter blade do some mesmer repositionning could me interesting.

    Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. (Involves redoing PVE chrono balance.)

    The current iteration of CS is fine. With the change to mimick I don't see how this is an issue. Especially when this skill can be interrupted by a player killing the rift. Which apparently people forget is possible.

    It is a issue because it create a gap with core elites.

    It's the theme of the specialization. Also not an issue. What's the theme of Core Mesmer. If we figure that out, wecan make improvements to it.

    That's been said since chrono release and in every other game who provide this kind of full reset skills that it will create impossible balance issues.
    Reset the life and endurance while no decap point is already strong as change and fit the theme.
    It's a waste of time making improvements on core mes if a spec can double use all core skill.

    Mantra of Pain : 10 sec cooldown, 10 might(10sec),Power Spike do same things as now but add burn and bleed to justify the CD increase.

    Lower Might generation would be better.
    This is a power mantra. So no to the burn and bleed ( we don't need more easy access to condi) If you are going to add a 10s CD increase the damage by 20-25%

    This is a damage mantra so adding condi didn't seem weird. And the ICD is to finish the monokey gameplay.

    I wouldn't add condi to a power mantra. It's been a power damage mantra since its inception, Only causing an issue with its spammable might generation.

    Ok but I remain disagree, the goal is to not having a somehow monokey gameplay and pain can be multiple source.

    Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead.

    ..No..The quickness is fine. Too much CC is not good, and if they buff the dom signet then this honestly is fine as is. Besides you have mantra of distraction for CC. Lets leave it at that.

    Did you ever see this mantra used in PvP ?
    We don't need quickness after the cast but before to cast.

    Then I would add it on activation.
    And no I didn't use this in Spvp ( though I did in WvW) As I found the slot could be used for something better.

    Same, I get convinced that a cc at the end of the 2.25 sec cast would have better use in PvP match than quickness.

    Time Warp : make it blockable, reduce the CD.

    Time warp is fine as is. So no.

    I didn't saw time warp in PvP, so how it is fine as is ?

    Time Warp was a staple in tournaments early on. The utility that it brought to the team was undeniable.
    You could possibly lower the CD, but the slow application synergizes with the already niche slow through time build.
    I don't see how a skill that does no damage but adds an unblockable slow is a problem.
    Why do you think it is?

    Yeah, but it was used with chrono, cough cough, what I'm just talking about F5. Think balance with no double core ulti.

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Shatters

    Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)

    This alone creates an even wider gap between power and condi where Condi gets to apply stacks and pressure on all 4 shatters, and Power after a change like this would have 1; now with a shatter lacking any scaling for it's damage, and not much else beyond phantasms as a follow up.

    Not really, since few patchs now, only F2 do good condi application. We are far from the time were every Fx do many confusion and torment.
    Power can get ammo on F1 as condi can get few torment/confusion if all traits take in duel/illu.
    But I get it that it's fine as it is and don't need to be changed.

    Also OH Sword's Illusionary Riposte is fine. I wouldn't be opposed to phantasm changes though.

    Answered above, it's a free 3-4k 900 range damage on a 15 sec CD.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    I'm reading through this but at a glance:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Illusionary Wave : make it bump people on downstate like many other class can do.
    Illusionary Counter : Reduce base damage, create only one clone.
    Axes of Symmetry : remove the break targeting or the evade.
    Portal Entre : Bring back 60 sec duration but add 30 sec CD if portal Exeunt is used.
    Signet of Humility : add a moa form training in heart of the mist. Reduce the CD.
    Time Warp : make it blockable, reduce the CD.

    Thumbs up

    Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage.

    thumbs down. No mesmer is going to run a rooting skill that isn't an evade, and that utility is necessary for a melee based mainhand. It's fine as is.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Solori.6025Solori.6025 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Mirage Cloak : Reduce mirage cloak duration to 0.75 sec instead of 1 sec.

    This is a bad idea, It was bad in testing, will be bad again. Though if they added a small movement dash to the dodge I would say this would be a good change.
    Actually I would much rather they did that- Add a dash component or a distance component to Mirage cloak at the expense of .25s duration.

    The idea is the combinaison with speed of sand duration increase. It was bad in testing because speed of sand was 0.75 duration not because of mirage cloak duration was 0.75 sec.

    Considering that you don't have the omni directional option to dodge and gain distance, the 1s was warranted and superspeed wont make up for the loss of that. It should be redesigned, and then nerfed. Or left alone.

    We really need to test it, I am convinced that it was the superspeed duration and not the evade frame who made it bad in testing.

    Agreed with testing. Though at this point with all of the QQ, if it isn't redesigned and just nerfed then the entire spec dies, because of how it was made. it will only ever be good or bad. No real room for an in between.

    Chaos Vortex : halve duration for clones, increase for mesmer attack.

    It's a condi weapon. I don't think it needs more power. But lowering the condi output would be really nice.

    I mean increase slightly the condi duration on mesmer ambush to compensate the halve on clone.

    I don't think that is necessary, we have enough condi.

    This is a really telegraphied obvious projectile ambush.

    Telegraphed sure.
    But this comes in multiple directions, and depending on how skilled the player is. You can guarantee that the enemy will be hit by at least one or more of these .
    As I said earlier. We don't need more conditions, I think what we have now is probably too powerful comparatively across the game ( with the exception of necro)

    Sword MH

    Mind Slash, Mind Gash : add 1 more vulnerability stack.
    Mind Spike : dispell 1 more boon. (get the 3rd chain in PvP is nearly impossible btw.)

    I think the weapon is fine as is. Wouldn't say no to more boon removal though.

    The AA do meh damage compared to other melee and : other melee class have perma swiftness or put cripple on you so you rarely hit with auto.

    Mesmer can also put cripple on a player and has access to plenty of cleansing if that is a concern. Besides that doing a quick gloss over of the damage coef. Mesmer sword has one of the highest finishing, and comparable starting to every sword on other classes as far as AA's go.

    Mesmer have to build up around cleanse if they want to, our cripple is far away from other melee class.
    Mesmer AA have relatively same coef/damage as other exept that :
    mesmer full chain : 2.48.
    rev full chain : 2.05.
    war full chain : 1.85.
    ranger full chain: 2.04.
    thief full chain: 1.88.
    ele fire full chain : 2.44.
    The 3rd mesmer chain do relatively same damage as other with boon.
    In practise, the slowness of the chain make it nearly impossible to hit with the 3rd.

    Yes the chain is slow. But so is the speed of Every other sword chain in the game...
    It's in line.

    Blurred Frenzy : make blur invul to retaliation or increase the damage.

    No. This is a terrible change and does nothing for the weapon.
    Now if you want to redesign blurred frenzy to work like unrelenting assualt I would be all for it. But this change to retail is a hard pass, and a hard no.

    Actually blurred frenzy do very bad damage and half of the time do more damage to the owner or allow the ennemy to flee away during the cast.
    How balance the damage so that it does what a 10 sec static spell is supposed to do a bad idea ?

    Blurred Frenzy is a punishment skill. Part defense part offense. Can be used to add sustainability and do damage. What you are proposing to do. Is gut that aspect of the weapon for a strippable and corruptable boon, while giving it more damage that could then be interrupted, while keeping the mesmer static in one place. You may as well redesign the skill because that is terrible.

    The offense part is ridiculous.
    Actually it is part time defense skill.

    Illusionary Riposte : reduce the damage.

    I think the damage is fine..It's a power weapon.....

    Counter Blade : add damage when interrupt.

    They have a trait for that....

    The idea is to reduce a free 3-4k easy proc on low cd while giving a skilled way to do damage in compensation.

    You would have to buff the back-end pretty significantly then to compensate. Again it's a power weapon, and comparatively to other combat blocks.
    It's in line.

    Nop, none other combat block do 3-4k at 900 range on a 15 sec CD.
    That said, Damage on rupt is redondant with trait, maybe make counter blade do some mesmer repositionning could me interesting.

    I would be all for a making the block a detarget and shift similar to Illusionary Ambush. If that was added to sword. I would then increase the CD of the utility to 25s.
    This gives core mes access to a feature that honestly should have been what mes had on weapons to begin with.
    With that in mind I wouldn't mind trading some stealth for similar detarget and shuffle mechanics. As I think that should be more the mesmers general mechanic.

    Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. (Involves redoing PVE chrono balance.)

    The current iteration of CS is fine. With the change to mimick I don't see how this is an issue. Especially when this skill can be interrupted by a player killing the rift. Which apparently people forget is possible.

    It is a issue because it create a gap with core elites.

    It's the theme of the specialization. Also not an issue. What's the theme of Core Mesmer. If we figure that out, wecan make improvements to it.

    That's been said since chrono release and in every other game who provide this kind of full reset skills that it will create impossible balance issues.
    Reset the life and endurance while no decap point is already strong as change and fit the theme.

    Wait let me get this straight. You would rather Chrono reset health and endurance. Rather than make a separate instance of skill CD?

    It's a waste of time making improvements on core mes if a spec can double use all core skill.

    Not all core skills. But that logic doesn't make sense when mirage exist. And does better than chrono in power and condi roles. It doesn't get to double down on utilities. The ability Chrono has is interesting. But not a reason to nerf it for core when core has no real identity and has fundamental issues. I would go so far as to say it is one of the core specs that needs some serious R and D

    Mantra of Pain : 10 sec cooldown, 10 might(10sec),Power Spike do same things as now but add burn and bleed to justify the CD increase.

    Lower Might generation would be better.
    This is a power mantra. So no to the burn and bleed ( we don't need more easy access to condi) If you are going to add a 10s CD increase the damage by 20-25%

    This is a damage mantra so adding condi didn't seem weird. And the ICD is to finish the monokey gameplay.

    I wouldn't add condi to a power mantra. It's been a power damage mantra since its inception, Only causing an issue with its spammable might generation.

    Ok but I remain disagree, the goal is to not having a somehow monokey gameplay and pain can be multiple source.

    Ok we will agree to disagree here.

    Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead.

    ..No..The quickness is fine. Too much CC is not good, and if they buff the dom signet then this honestly is fine as is. Besides you have mantra of distraction for CC. Lets leave it at that.

    Did you ever see this mantra used in PvP ?
    We don't need quickness after the cast but before to cast.

    Then I would add it on activation.
    And no I didn't use this in Spvp ( though I did in WvW) As I found the slot could be used for something better.

    Same, I get convinced that a cc at the end of the 2.25 sec cast would have better use in PvP match than quickness.

    I think more CC would only add to the growing issue of power creep. And it would compete with the CC mantra we have.
    Now we could add the float on cast to the Mantra of distraction. That would be funny. Op but funny

    Time Warp : make it blockable, reduce the CD.

    Time warp is fine as is. So no.

    I didn't saw time warp in PvP, so how it is fine as is ?

    Time Warp was a staple in tournaments early on. The utility that it brought to the team was undeniable.
    You could possibly lower the CD, but the slow application synergizes with the already niche slow through time build.
    I don't see how a skill that does no damage but adds an unblockable slow is a problem.
    Why do you think it is?

    Yeah, but it was used with chrono, cough cough, what I'm just talking about F5. Think balance with no double core ulti.

    See notes about chrono above.

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Shatters

    Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)

    This alone creates an even wider gap between power and condi where Condi gets to apply stacks and pressure on all 4 shatters, and Power after a change like this would have 1; now with a shatter lacking any scaling for it's damage, and not much else beyond phantasms as a follow up.

    Not really, since few patchs now, only F2 do good condi application. We are far from the time were every Fx do many confusion and torment.
    Power can get ammo on F1 as condi can get few torment/confusion if all traits take in duel/illu.
    But I get it that it's fine as it is and don't need to be changed.

    Also OH Sword's Illusionary Riposte is fine. I wouldn't be opposed to phantasm changes though.

    Answered above, it's a free 3-4k 900 range damage on a 15 sec CD.

    Compare it to guardian focus block for offhand with similar damage. The guardian focus can break for 5-6k and all you have to do is pop it port and let it explode. It has a similar (same?) Cool down. Difference is the range. But as said above I would trade the damage on block for an Illusionary Ambush type of skill. This adds a weapon to compete with torch and helps core with viable weapon options

    Tingle my stingleberry

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭

    Its a suicide into retal enemies while you do no damage and rooting yourself for 1s , its time to unroot this thing or buff damage a bit and make it hit only 4 hits (like PW)
    Sw3 is worthless trash because illusion getting instantly erased (because its HP is about 2k) or its just bugs and didnt port u anywhere
    Its not fine
    Aaaaand arguing with this 2 ... Its like 1 say TW must be kitten and unusable because ...No idea why tbh . Why mesmer elites must be garbage once again ?
    And another dude want to keep perma reflect on mirage for projectile immunity without a single window for counterplay ,I have no words

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @Solori.6025 said:

    Continuum Split : make this skill just usable to reset mesmer life because is too hard to balance core skills around when you have one who can double all of them : increase the duration from 1,5 to 2 sec per illusions, this skill only revert previous health and endurance. No longer prevent capture-point contribution. (Involves redoing PVE chrono balance.)

    The current iteration of CS is fine. With the change to mimick I don't see how this is an issue. Especially when this skill can be interrupted by a player killing the rift. Which apparently people forget is possible.

    It is a issue because it create a gap with core elites.

    It's the theme of the specialization. Also not an issue. What's the theme of Core Mesmer. If we figure that out, wecan make improvements to it.

    That's been said since chrono release and in every other game who provide this kind of full reset skills that it will create impossible balance issues.
    Reset the life and endurance while no decap point is already strong as change and fit the theme.

    Wait let me get this straight. You would rather Chrono reset health and endurance. Rather than make a separate instance of skill CD?

    F5 just work on health and endurance yes while during longer per clone.

    Mantra of Concentration : Remove quickness on cast. Add 1 sec float effect on ennemy, 240 radius instead.

    ..No..The quickness is fine. Too much CC is not good, and if they buff the dom signet then this honestly is fine as is. Besides you have mantra of distraction for CC. Lets leave it at that.

    Did you ever see this mantra used in PvP ?
    We don't need quickness after the cast but before to cast.

    Then I would add it on activation.
    And no I didn't use this in Spvp ( though I did in WvW) As I found the slot could be used for something better.

    Same, I get convinced that a cc at the end of the 2.25 sec cast would have better use in PvP match than quickness.

    I think more CC would only add to the growing issue of power creep. And it would compete with the CC mantra we have.
    Now we could add the float on cast to the Mantra of distraction. That would be funny. Op but funny

    Doing a CC after a 2.25 sec cast time will never be op

    @tinyreborn.1938 said:

    Its a suicide into retal enemies while you do no damage and rooting yourself for 1s , its time to unroot this thing or buff damage a bit and make it hit only 4 hits (like PW)
    Sw3 is worthless trash because illusion getting instantly erased (because its HP is about 2k) or its just bugs and didnt port u anywhere
    Its not fine
    Aaaaand arguing with this 2 ... Its like 1 say TW must be kitten and unusable because ...No idea why tbh . Why mesmer elites must be garbage once again ?
    And another dude want to keep perma reflect on mirage for projectile immunity without a single window for counterplay ,I have no words

    Who is the one who extrapolate, the one who propose to remove the perma evade with a 2 sec ICD or the one who want a dead trait with 5 sec ICD ?

  • tinyreborn.1938tinyreborn.1938 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 9, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Who is the one who extrapolate, the one who propose to remove the perma evade with a 2 sec ICD or the one who want a dead trait with 5 sec ICD ?

    Its not OP on core ,its not op on chrono but its absurdly broken on mirage.
    5s icd sounds more than reasonable. 2s duration 3s your reflect is down . This way projectiles HAVE A CHANCE TO LAND.
    Meanwhile your suggestion does nothing 2s icd 2s duration ,chain evades every 2s to achieve perma reflect ,projectile builds still cant do s**t. Nice try to keep this trait that nullify all projectile builds without any investment

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    Actually it is perma reflect because the icd is fewer than the miror duration.
    2 sec icd mean that once the miror end, you can land projectile.
    5 sec duration mean eveyone go on blind on shatter.
    And stop saying I want to keep a trait that nullify builds without investment please, I'm the first in this forum suggering increasing the ICD (or I miss a post.).

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 10, 2019

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Shatters

    Cry of Frustration : remove the direct damage. Make the confusion duration and number of stacks dependant of the number of clone like Mind Wrack. (example : 1 clone : 1 confusion stack, long duration -> 3 clones : 3 confusion stacks/clones, low duration.)

    This alone creates an even wider gap between power and condi where Condi gets to apply stacks and pressure on all 4 shatters, and Power after a change like this would have 1; now with a shatter lacking any scaling for it's damage, and not much else beyond phantasms as a follow up.

    Not really, since few patchs now, only F2 do good condi application. We are far from the time were every Fx do many confusion and torment.
    Power can get ammo on F1 as condi can get few torment/confusion if all traits take in duel/illu.
    But I get it that it's fine as it is and don't need to be changed.

    Also OH Sword's Illusionary Riposte is fine. I wouldn't be opposed to phantasm changes though.

    Answered above, it's a free 3-4k 900 range damage on a 15 sec CD.

    It did change yes. With Cry of Pain now pumping most of the confusion into Cry of Frustration. However Maim the Disillusioned still stacks torment for every shatter, and every close ranged shatter that blinds drops another 2 stacks of confusion. This is still better than the proposed "1" Shatter that would only do damage for power after removing damage from Cry of Frustration, and would only allow Mind Wrack more usage when slotting into a line that competes with Dueling and Domination both required on power builds given either the state of the meta, or being locked into those options from recent nerfs.

    I would not be opposed to taking it out if we gained options through traits to restore raw damage values to shatters, and possibly giving more options as well. For instance: Confounding Suggestions giving a 0.6 coefficient to Diversion, and Shattered Concentration restoring the 0.38 to cry of frustration.
    Giving the option to power, and keeping it out of reach for condi builds. (Just spit balling; numbers for Diversion would need to be adjusted)
    Maybe drop both into Rending Shatter?

    Also Riposte it's not "free" you can counter without blowing a dodge by simply hitting "stow weapon", or just not attacking, or poke it from outside 900 range.
    It's only "free" If you brazenly attack and disregard your opponents options. No good player does this.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @Daishi.6027 said:
    Also Riposte it's not "free" you can counter without blowing a dodge by simply hitting "stow weapon", or just not attacking, or poke it from outside 900 range.
    It's only "free" If you brazenly attack and disregard your opponents options. No good player does this.

    As long as it pop on mesmer target and not on the guy who trigger the block, like scepter, it is free. And 900 range in PvP is near max range fighting around points.
    The only class who can realisticly "stow weapon" and not attacking to counter this block is warrior.

  • EpicTurtle.8571EpicTurtle.8571 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 13, 2019

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    As long as it pop on mesmer target and not on the guy who trigger the block, like scepter, it is free. And 900 range in PvP is near max range fighting around points.

    The only way you'll get this is if you get ANet to remove the skill retargeting option from the game. Which is very very unlikely to happen.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @EpicTurtle.8571 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    As long as it pop on mesmer target and not on the guy who trigger the block, like scepter, it is free. And 900 range in PvP is near max range fighting around points.

    The only way you'll get this is if you get ANet to remove the skill retargeting option from the game. Which is very very unlikely to happen.

    That's why I suggest to improve the active effect instead of the block.

    I update the first post with players remarks and suggestions and more explanations.

  • Awful alteration of a mirage! 24k DPS on golem :(
    I wonder if Anet will fix the situation?
    Or mirage is now only pvp class :(

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited January 29, 2019

    @melrokk.5938 said:
    Awful alteration of a mirage! 24k DPS on golem :(
    I wonder if Anet will fix the situation?
    Or mirage is now only pvp class :(

    Dunno, but it's actually a PvP discussion.
    Btw I think PvE balance is more about ajusting number (split from PvP). Even with my F5 change.

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