Making traps worth taking. (and fix bugs)

First of all, i love playing a trapper thief (or trap ranger). Its just my style of playing. I like it for trying to trick people to walk over them, when it works its like.. "oooh yeah, got him!". Well I suppose thats what it would be under normal circumstances.However thief traps lack a lot of things in my opinion.Let me first start by telling the real bugs in them (they have probably already been posted somewhere, but they have been here since launch so...)I only play wvw so keep that in mind!

1. Needle trap: when placed, and walked over by a dolyak caravan, the trap always springs, but 50 percent of the time it doenst do its condi application. (mostly dolyaks that arent aggresive towards you and are just delivering goods to towers)
2. Ambush trap: when walked over, a thief assists you. There is a male and a female version. The male also uses black powder once as a skill. This is a combo field. But if you blast it (for example shortbow skill 2) it doesnt provide stealh. You get the combo text "Area Stealth" but it doesnt work.
3. Shadow trap: well i guess this is known by all, but man... a LOT of the times the porting just doesnt work. Last time i used "destroy shadow trap" it didnt even move me a single bit. I wasnt inside a tower or so, just in a wvw camp.Maybe make it a teleport instead of shadow step and only use walls from towers, keeps, castle to block the teleport (but certainly not some none flat terrain).

Now, after fixing these bugs, its time to make traps a little better.

1. Needle trap AND tripwire: They have a trap radius of 900x130. I think the radius should be increased to 1000x130. And when it procs the "damage radius" should increase to something like 1200x150.
2. Ambush trap: The thief attacks kinda slow, and hasnt got a lot of health. Increase both. Also the cooldown at 35 seconds is to high to be competitive with other skills.
3. Shadow trap: First of all, laying down this trap should also be a stunbreaker. Secondly, at the moment when you lay down the trap it has a 45 seconds cooldown. Then you have to lure someone in the trap, wich cost even more time. Finally when you got one you can use the skill. But the timer resets again to 45 seconds, even if the trap was laying there for 30 seconds.So there are 3 options: Dont reset the cooldown OR lower the cooldown (25 seconds for example) OR a combination of both.
4. Something for all traps: if someone just evades over a trap (dodge rolling or using a skill that evades), i dont think the trap should also trigger, it should just remain were it is (untriggered).

I really dont think that these changes make traps superior. To be somewhat competitive with other skills, i think this is the minimum that should be done. Ofcourse their are other ideas possible but this is just my opinion.

Also, some other ideas:

1. Give something extra to the trait "deadly trapper": Placing traps is 50% faster OR maybe even 1 second of aegis while placing the trap.
2. I miss an elite trap. Maybe make thieves guild a trap instead of deception?
3. Most classes have some sort of acces to reveal stealth. But the master of stealth, the thief, doenst. If someone walks over a trap they should be revealed. (Also on ranger or guardian trap on the first tick), you just know he is there so...

IMO, the Thief traps should trigger 3 times before going away. No other changes needs to be done.

What about a reduction in cool down if a trap was triggered by an evade/invul/etc (not by normal means).

@Maliken.5630 said:

I am happy you are trying to improve Trapper build and I am happy you run it i am proud of you.BUT dude those improvement ideas are ridiculous.We won't get reduced CD since we already got trait for that it would get broken. We won't get increased dmg cuz ppl would start crying Trapper Thief is too OP and we would get nerfed to worse state than is current one. And we also don't want that type of attention.Also the increased effective range of Trap is just very bad idea.Traps can be dodged through. So lets say you place a nice trap on a choke point. It covers it whole so nobody can pass. GG ez kill.Unfortunatelly you are not the only one who read the update notes abuot Traps getting increased range. Ppl already know it and for causion dodge through choke points.Now the trap would cover only half of it. So if he would miss he won't trigger it you can attack him and push him to your trap.If the trap covers whole choke point tho and he dodges through it he will trigger it and won't get dmg. And that is something you can't afford as a Trapper.I actually don't believe I am saying this but I agree with @Sir Vincent III.1286BUT ONLY PARTIALLY!!!!!!!!!I like the idea of multiple Trap effectivness BUT not that way.If you place a trap and someone triggers once he won't return to that place so soon so the fact it could be triggered 3 times wouldn't be that handy.ALSO Trappers main focus in to place traps strategically, the way enemy stepped on them so more area you cover the better.Which brings me to upgraded idea of our beloved VinnieDon't make traps be able to get triggered 3 times BUT make Traps an ammo utility.Lets say since we don't want it to be spammed. We can place 2 maybe 3 traps if Anet would be VERY generous the way you can cast Distracting Daggers nowYou place lets say Tripwire or Needle Trap and in up to 5 sec CD you can place another one.Each trap has its own CD as well. So if we consider Tripwire has 25 sec original CD (traited 20) You can place Tripwire. In 5 sec you can place your second (in next 5 third if we are being generous) and you can place another one when the first one will get refreshed which is 20 sec again. Traps get deleted from their previous location as they are now so if ur 1st trap didn't get triggered it will disapear and you will place it again elsewhere.This way Trapper could cover more area which would increase its effectiveness w/o making it either too OP or medling with traits/CDs

That is what I would have done as an old school seasoned Trapper.

what's this silly sauce

@Jack Redline.5379 said:make Traps an ammo utility.

might cause issues with Shadow Trap

@derd.6413 said:might cause issues with Shadow Trap

okay Shadow trap might be exception that one can get like 5-10 sec cd reductioni was talking mainly about offensive traps. I see what you mean.

Shadow trap can be handled by simply having the utility icon flip while triggered, so that for some time the icon triggers the shadowstep instead of laying down a new trap.

I haven't heard of thief traps in these forums in forever, so I really don't think some small improvements could cause them to become broken good.

@Skotlex.7580 said:Shadow trap can be handled by simply having the utility icon flip while triggered, so that for some time the icon triggers the shadowstep instead of laying down a new trap.

both shadow traps get triggered at the same time. now what?

I thought the idea was to only enable one trap of each type to be out, placing a second one destroys the first one (following @Jack Redline.5379 idea up there). Because we don't want a trapper filling a room with a dozen traps.

@Skotlex.7580 said:I thought the idea was to only enable one trap of each type to be out, placing a second one destroys the first one (following @Jack Redline.5379 idea up there). Because we don't want a trapper filling a room with a dozen traps..@"Jack Redline.5379 said:We can place 2 maybe 3 traps if Anet would be VERY generous the way you can cast Distracting Daggers now

Okay, I misread. In which case that's one trap that wouldn't make much sense on an ammo system. :P

@derd.6413 said:

@Skotlex.7580 said:I thought the idea was to only enable one trap of each type to be out, placing a second one destroys the first one (following @Jack Redline.5379 idea up there). Because we don't want a trapper filling a room with a dozen traps..@"Jack Redline.5379 said:We can place 2 maybe 3 traps if Anet would be VERY generous the way you can cast Distracting Daggers now

Wait Derd i also said there is CD between them just like on Distracting daggers. I said like 5 seconds but it can be clearly more. But since i was talking of ammo skill i would like it to become more room filling. If we dont want to overdo it lets go with it like thisExample : Needle trap now has 2 applications each divided by 8 sec cd and each of them having 30 sec cd recharge like it is now the damaging effect remain same (with Deadly trapper it is 24 sec afai)Same would go for all other traps with exception of Shadow trap.It is different because unlike other traps it doesnt cause dmg and is more of an utility with rly too long CD lets say it has okay-ish benefit. So i would only chop down cd by 8 sec which would make it 37 sec CD for one cast of the trap (approximatelly 30 sec with Deadly Trapper) same effect.Any trapper can go with max 2 traps in his utility set maybe one on his heal if they want to run the Trappers respite. You could use one condi cleanse = signet of agility which is btw very game friendly for all thieves atm.And this way it would be max 4 traps, 2 if you would equip one Trap on ur utility and the other utilities would be something else. This way you either have 1 trap or 2 tops. Which rly isnt much. It can be managable in battle yes. But it can only get you that far. No room for more improvement since the Trapper wont get you further with this set up.

ALSO EDIT

I said the first trap would get deleted yes.But only if you would already placed the second one.Explanation1st trap was put downCd passes2nd trap is put downcd passes and 1st trap skill is reacharged1st trap wasnt triggered yet and you want to place another trapYou place trapThe first one which wasnt triggered gets deleted and replaced the 2nd one remains on its place untill you again place 2nd trap if one already there wasnt triggered yet.

Maybe sounds a bit complicated but i can imagine it working. Its rly easy imo :)

We can lay down 2noodle trapps at the same time right now - with heal skill, soit is max 4 trapps. However! With so many cleanses, I like an idea to put more traps. Noodle deal dmg within so long time and usually last no longer then 1/4 of total duration. Ok - after that You can always spam 4 on d/p but you know, its more then suicide. Currently ranger (in druid spec) as traper deal much more dmg (vs single and AoE) which is very easy to land.

@Jack Redline.5379 said:

If you place a trap and someone triggers once he won't return to that place so soon so the fact it could be triggered 3 times wouldn't be that handy.

Not that handy based on your ever narrow view of the game. If you Tripwire someone on top of a Needle Trap, they will trigger the 2nd Needle Trap and 2nd Tripwire when they get up and tried to move, up to the 3rd trigger.

The ammo system is clunky especially when handling CDRs. The trap setup also adds delays that lowers DPS.

@Sir Vincent III.1286 said:I wont argue with you win i shaped what you came up with and you can either reshape it in ur own form and see if ppl agree or disagree with mine and do nothing. I care about the ppl who agree.