Advice from a long time WvW veteran.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

[Elf Lord.8962]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

[Elf Lord.8962]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

[Elf Lord.8962]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

bye bye then =) you shouldnt force youself to play if your not having fun.

i myself played swtr, and wow. and i have multiple games from other platforms from rpg to chess. my wife and i still play diablo 3 and i still pop in for starcraft league every now and then.

[Elf Lord.8962]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

bye bye then =) you shouldnt force youself to play if your not having fun.

i myself played swtr, and wow. and i have multiple games from other platforms from rpg to chess. my wife and i still play diablo 3 and i still pop in for starcraft league every now and then.

I have played since the very beginning, and in WvW, I am one off those who been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the DVD, and whatever, and well the current crowd do not know how to play efficiently, and achieve with 20, what they cannot achieve with 60. I have seen all the META's come and go - oh well - guess it is time ...

Then told I am an ass for telling them otherwise.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

bye bye then =) you shouldnt force youself to play if your not having fun.

i myself played swtr, and wow. and i have multiple games from other platforms from rpg to chess. my wife and i still play diablo 3 and i still pop in for starcraft league every now and then.

I have played since the very beginning, and in WvW, I am one off those who been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the DVD, and whatever, and well the current crowd do not know how to play efficiently, and achieve with 20, what they cannot achieve with 60. I have seen all the META's come and go - oh well - guess it is time ...

Then told I am an kitten for telling them otherwise

well, ppl will do what they want. and if they dont learn from repeated wipes, they're probably not really meant for wvw.

it is easy for me, but, to others it is not. and those who find it easy is simply good at other games too.

[nthmetal.9652]

@"Sovereign.1093" said:well, ppl will do what they want. and if they dont learn from repeated wipes, they're probably not really meant for wvw.

it is easy for me, but, to others it is not. and those who find it easy is simply good at other games too.

There's only so much you can do by learning. Fighting 50 man with 20 is very hard. It's impossible if the 50 somewhat know what they're doing. You'll probably not be able to beat them, if they have a giuld group in their middle, which is reasonably good. No matter how much you learn, you more likely will not be able to dent them, no matter what you do.If the enemy is similar sized or only a little bigger, then superior performance will win the day, but more often than not, factors outside your control are more important.

I'm not stating this as a good thing or a bad thing. It's just how WvW is these days.

Also for repeated wipes allowing you to learn something, the game would have to provide the means by which you are able to learn. All you get from the game itself in terms of analyzing your last combat is the combat log, and I doubt that tells you even half of what you need to know. The game does little to help there, though. If ArenaNet were reading this, this is something they should think about. The games gives you too little information to learn by - in general all over the game, but especially in WvW. You can't even see how well you are performing on the class you are just now playing without the help of outside tools.You can't tell how dangerous a situation is. Step into an AoE. If you do it alone, you know what it does. If you do it with 20 other players, is the AoE dangerous? How dangerous are stacked AoEs? It's a gamble! How is anyone supposed to properly learn from that?

So, the game doesn't teach you nearly enough through its own means. You'd actually need mentors. You need third party tools and people with knowledge and experience in the game to teach you.A good mentor should be open-minded. They should teach you how to be good on your profession, because more often than not you might first need to open a player's mind to the options and what works well in WvW and what does not. Simply telling someone "your class is mot meta, don't bother" isn't going to achieve much. Teaching like that is basically slamming a door into people's faces, totally disregarding their choice in characters.I doubt you could get someone's attention like that.Once their attention is ensured however, a mentor could work toward explaining the meta, why it exists, why it is the way it is, and thus why it would be better to pick, for example, a revenant over a ranger if you want to zerg. Or why a support firebrand is so important. Or a healscrapper.

It's not only the players refusing to learn, it's also the game itself and the mentors. We're all part of the problem. Just blaming the casuals is only looking at a small part of the problem.

[Sovereign.1093]

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@"Sovereign.1093" said:well, ppl will do what they want. and if they dont learn from repeated wipes, they're probably not really meant for wvw.

it is easy for me, but, to others it is not. and those who find it easy is simply good at other games too.

There's only so much you can do by learning. Fighting 50 man with 20 is very hard. It's impossible if the 50 somewhat know what they're doing. You'll probably not be able to beat them, if they have a giuld group in their middle, which is reasonably good. No matter how much you learn, you more likely will not be able to dent them, no matter what you do.If the enemy is similar sized or only a little bigger, then superior performance will win the day, but more often than not, factors outside your control are more important.

I'm not stating this as a good thing or a bad thing. It's just how WvW is these days.

Also for repeated wipes allowing you to learn something, the game would have to provide the means by which you are able to learn. All you get from the game itself in terms of analyzing your last combat is the combat log, and I doubt that tells you even half of what you need to know. The game does little to help there, though. If ArenaNet were reading this, this is something they should think about. The games gives you too little information to learn by - in general all over the game, but especially in WvW. You can't even see how well you are performing on the class you are just now playing without the help of outside tools.You can't tell how dangerous a situation is. Step into an AoE. If you do it alone, you know what it does. If you do it with 20 other players, is the AoE dangerous? How dangerous are stacked AoEs? It's a gamble! How is anyone supposed to properly learn from that?

So, the game doesn't teach you nearly enough through its own means. You'd actually need mentors. You need third party tools and people with knowledge and experience in the game to teach you.A good mentor should be open-minded. They should teach you how to be good on your profession, because more often than not you might first need to open a player's mind to the options and what works well in WvW

and what does not

. Simply telling someone "your class is mot meta, don't bother" isn't going to achieve much.

Teaching like that is basically slamming a door into people's faces

, totally

disregarding

their choice in characters.I doubt you could get someone's attention like that.Once their attention is ensured however, a mentor could work toward explaining the meta, why it exists, why it is the way it is, and thus why it would be better to pick, for example, a revenant over a ranger if you want to zerg. Or why a support firebrand is so important. Or a healscrapper.

It's not only the players refusing to learn, it's also the game itself and the mentors. We're all part of the problem. Just blaming the casuals is only looking at a small part of the problem.

i am not blaming casuals. but they should atleast learn fast that.they can't 1v50. or siege v 50.

you ask for help, join groups, and grow. those who prefer to be soloists wouldnt bother with others and enjoy duels, single caps.

also 20 would choose to fight 50 only in chokes. with pugs using siege, and using invis.

and you can always test the backline of 50 to see if they strong. once you can't deant it. the best choice is to drop suply traps, call for help, and run away.

but if you really want to make it difficult for the 50, harrass their commander thru focus. i get that a lot, and it is effective. even if my team is only 10+

an experienced commander would know after 2 tries, the scenario.

[Elf Lord.8962]

When fighting 50 with 20, the commander, needs to know what he can expect from his squad, the squad must know what the commander, prefers, and they must pick the spot and fight on their terms, not the opposition's terms. The moment you fight on their terms, you have lost it.

Equal numbers, you can swing it, if caught out of position if you have a good commander, and a disciplined group, that can hold together.

[Elf Lord.8962]

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

bye bye then =) you shouldnt force youself to play if your not having fun.

i myself played swtr, and wow. and i have multiple games from other platforms from rpg to chess. my wife and i still play diablo 3 and i still pop in for starcraft league every now and then.

I have played since the very beginning, and in WvW, I am one off those who been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the DVD, and whatever, and well the current crowd do not know how to play efficiently, and achieve with 20, what they cannot achieve with 60. I have seen all the META's come and go - oh well - guess it is time ...

Then told I am an kitten for telling them otherwise

well, ppl will do what they want. and if they dont learn from repeated wipes, they're probably not really meant for wvw.

it is easy for me, but, to others it is not. and those who find it easy is simply good at other games too.

They do what they want, basically because they do not have faith in the ability of the squad, and or commander.

Back in the day, we would check which commander was running, and bring what we knew fitted.

You don't trust the squad, or the commander, then you bring a build, that you believe gives you the best chance, regardless of the commander or squad. Way it works.

Back in the day, we had guilds that daily demonstrated that their method worked. And off duty guild members made up the majority of the zerg.

Today you have a bunch of clueless hopefuls, running after a commander. And the commander preys he gets a solid core group, to keep him alive, and that the zerg at least sticks to him mostly.

Hell for both the zerg, and the commander.

No one wins, not the zerglings, not the commander, not the server, they all losers.

[Sovereign.1093]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

bye bye then =) you shouldnt force youself to play if your not having fun.

i myself played swtr, and wow. and i have multiple games from other platforms from rpg to chess. my wife and i still play diablo 3 and i still pop in for starcraft league every now and then.

I have played since the very beginning, and in WvW, I am one off those who been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the DVD, and whatever, and well the current crowd do not know how to play efficiently, and achieve with 20, what they cannot achieve with 60. I have seen all the META's come and go - oh well - guess it is time ...

Then told I am an kitten for telling them otherwise

well, ppl will do what they want. and if they dont learn from repeated wipes, they're probably not really meant for wvw.

it is easy for me, but, to others it is not. and those who find it easy is simply good at other games too.

They do what they want, basically because they do not have faith in the ability of the squad, and or commander.

Back in the day, we would check which commander was running, and bring what we knew fitted.

You don't trust the squad, or the commander, then you bring a build, that you believe gives you the best chance, regardless of the commander or squad. Way it works.

Back in the day, we had guilds that daily demonstrated that their method worked. And off duty guild members made up the majority of the zerg.

Today you have a bunch of clueless hopefuls, running after a commander. And the commander preys he gets a solid core group, to keep him alive, and that the zerg at least sticks to him mostly.

Hell for both the zerg, and the commander.

No one wins, not the zerglings, not the commander, not the server, they all losers.

luckily we dont have that in nsp. its just us, so we had to work hard to get where we are.

so when my guild mates go offline, i know its nearing the end of the raid.

[Redavv.2643]

WVWVW mode could easily stand as a single feature in a MMO Game a constant map in battle, you could add all those pve features in there, like crafting your armor. food. siege weapons, etc etc. There are ways to make a profit from this cause moste gamers when they fight they want to look cool also so cosmetics and quality of life items would sell easily from the gemstore. They could also add areas with materials to gather, Imagine how cool it would be that you will need to fight over an area of rich elder wood nodes for example :D ,ofcourse this is not for everyone but i would certainly spend a lot of time there

This kind of gameplay will create a strong community and guilds that would defend their cities etc etc.

The mechanics are there, i have no problem with players that enjoy the pve side of GW2 good for them. But they could have had an wvw only servers

[Knighthonor.4061]

Hey nothing personal OP but none of you are ever clear on what exactly you all want other the unrealistic subjective/Non tangible request like better balance, like in the Swagger thread.You are never going to get balance in a mode like this. No population balance and not class balance. It's not going to happen because of the uniqueness of the classes. A Mesmer is never going to be equal to a Revenant, for example.

That leads back to my first point. What exactly do you all want? You all don't want anything that has a NPC, you all don't want new sieges, you all don't want new form of dedicated healers, you all don't want new rules on how WvW play. So what is it you all want?

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@"Lightsbane.9012" said:you (had) one of the most unique game modes on the mmorpg market for five years running. One of the most dedicated communities that built their own story with their own accomplishments and heroism in battle. Yet you do not seem to love WvW like I do, ArenaNet. It disappoints me as a gamer. WvW is still dripping with potential and you leave it in the dust for nonsensical beyond easy pve content. I, like probably many others, like a challenge with my video games, otherwise there is no fun in it. Fighting AI is not a challenge. Fighting mobs that do not move are not a challenge, no matter how or where you fight them. Once you know their mechanics, you win. You cannot do this with players, especially a large group of organized players. Why do you neglect WvW? Do you not realize how big the WvW playerbase is? Do you not realize how many people play your game JUST for WvW?

Let's talk about the maps. Desert borderland is an experiment that should've been a jungle map instead. I mean, thieves hiding in bushes, rangers sniping from tree tops, not to mention edge of the mists which would've been much better off as the fourth map instead of a wait for queue to pop zone. You have so much space to work with in what we, the players of your game, can see alone. The mass of land/misted out areas surrounding eternal battlegrounds. The mass of water in the middle of nearly all of it, it just feels like you've run out of passion for what caused me to fall in love with your game. Why don't you put any focus into this game mode? Why? As a fellow artist I can't imagine why you don't put more work and love into this. Let me tell you, If i am not sketching, painting, lifting, or doing my other day to days, I am here, at home, gaming. What you had with Wvw was something i always wanted, the open world pvp, the objective based combat, the free flowing movement of an army at battle, and how skill and discipline will always beat a meta, every single day. Yet the game mode has stagnated beyond the point of no return, I believe. Unless something drastic happens, unless you have some massive map in the works for a new expansion, I don't know how much longer it has. and it pains me to say that, it really does. I love this game, I love the classes, and at this point my advice to you is to watch the Wvw forum like it's your duty. Take note of what the players are saying, and do things based off of that within reason. You give everything to the pve players as if they do not already have it, and give us nothing. When does wvw get the same respect as living story?

I'll be honest, but i'm afraid of Anet touching anything about wvw just because they have a tendency to screw up things that are doing perfectly fine on their own...Mounts was a huge double edge sword, i don't think we fully understand what consequence it's had on the game mode...but in my opinion it hasn't been much of a success.

I believe that there needs to be new content. problem is what could we possibly add to wvw before it makes the gamemode too complicated/convoluted?

I think a lot of us like to fight on new maps, but the design of their "current" new maps are too complicated...that's why not many people like the desert BL...There's too much STUFF and it's hard to navigate because of how vertical, and maze-like it is... I can't make heads or tails out of air keep, i don't even know what it's supposed to look like other than that it's a bunch of stairs and palm trees.

I think WvW would like more rewards...but we kinda already get pretty nice rewards...pips, loot bags, legendary back and ascended armor...

So what can we add? what's there to be changed? It's really uncertain what WvW needs to keep it fresh. Like you said, the player to player fights are what keep WvW a unique encounter all the time.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@zinkz.7045 said:

@"Paradoxoglanis.1904" said:The only half decent wvw mmo of its kind, amazing combat system, huge potential for a strong competitive game with no competition from other game studios, and the entire game is focused around solo story based pve. Yes wvw has a small but relatively stable population now, but most gw2 players never play wvw or pvp. The game had its chance and they blew it.

People claim that WvW cant make money, yet somehow other competitive games can make ridiculous amounts, anet just never added anything to wvw that could bring in revenue. For starters, the game is largely based around guild vs guild combat, whether its a guild leading a pug group around taking keeps, or a gvg focused fight guild. Add custom guild camp, tower, keep, siege skins to the gem store. Customizable guild cosmetic gear, unique guild finishers, pick nearly anything that lets guilds stand out from others and people will pay time and money for that. Give guilds/servers a reason to win the weekly matchup and people will become more competitive and feel a sense of pride for the group they represent. Its ridiculous to think that wvw couldnt be more than a niche gamemode when so many ideas for content have never been attempted.

They could monetize it better, but that is all. As a competitive game mode it is a joke just like every other attempt at RvR, which ultimately is why all these types of games die off after a couple of years.

Good, fun PvP requires competition, WvW lacks the mechanisms to provide that in every aspect.

When it comes to "winning" the matchup (PPT) no one sane cares or has ever cared, because a 24/7 game mode, where the teams are different sizes, with different coverage and "gameplay" that is more boring than PvE (PvDoor, avoid fights, jump maps, etc) makes "winning" meaningless and the "gameplay" dull.

Same thing for fights, a guy roaming who has played 10k hours jumping on a guy in a zerg build or a guy who has played 100 hours or a guy who is 70 years old, etc is dull trash tier PvP, same for large scale, no good tryharding with whatever meta cheese, all on TS/Discord and having nothing to fight, because every dumb tryhard is on two servers, so other comms just log off after a couple of fights.

RvR is a flawed game mode, that basically only appeals to bads who are fine with trash tier "PvP" and trash tier gameplay, which is why it is dead in the handful of games that even bother to try it (and they only try because of rose tinted DAoC spectacles some devs are wearing).

They would have been better off going with battlegrounds, that way casual players could face casual players, guilds could face guilds (and actually have some sort of competitive ladder / league) and the quality of PvP would be better and more fun plus it would have been way easier to add content to and keep things fresh.

I have to agree with this. Should have gone with one big large scale Old AV type of Faction VS Faction pvp instance. This three server open world Sim just didn't cut it beyond the early prerelease hype. The game don't even have group roles and damage reduction stat specific to pvp.

[Knighthonor.4061]

@XenesisII.1540 said:Dunno how you can state that when they had spvp to do exactly all that and still failed.

SPvP was pretty much Arena esport. Even Blizzard regretted going that route and abandoning the old Battleground model. Can't balance around small scale pvp with a class system. That's why Esport in MMOs tend to always fail unless it doesn't use a standard RPG class system.

The SPvP for years pretty much ran the same exact game mode just with different backgrounds maps. Far different from what Vanilla Wow did in which each mode was actually different with different objects from each other. SPvP was straight up failure. The Anti Wow mentality going around back pre Vanilla GW2 blinded people from this reality and 7 years later our egos still prevents us from admitting this and addressing these problems. Some of which are hard-coded into the game.

WvW was hyped to be this big new 3 Faction PvPvE game mode but has hype died and population dropped the server identity had to also go and we got the megaserver. This why players in WvW really have no Faction pride now, especially after having to do this server link up system they currently have. Once again took way too long for developers to admit that player factions was a better route to go than the server pride model.

Also the lack of Trinity play a role here as well. Note that all those other RvR MMos have group Trinity roles. They there for a reason. Healers help prolong the fights and create strategies and tactics. Right now it's all just one big DPS fest. The WvW support builds aren't real healers that can counter the heavy zerg damage. Which brinds me to my next point is that WvW doesn't even provide players with the needed passive damage reduction. In WoW you had Resilience as a stat to bring down those massive PvE damage numbers when fighting against players. We on the other hand have to rely on a useless Toughness stat and protection Boon which is temporary, can be removed or corrupted and obviously not good enough.

There is so much wrong with WvW that many vets here honestly don't want to admit to, and really to blinded by their Fandom to even see what the problem is. WvW was a very hyped up feature. It had many people excited to play it. So there has to obvious be a reason why the actual gameplay had the opposite effect on long term players. Most WvW vets here would rather we ignore the reason most of those other players left. How does that make WvW better and more populated?

[Knighthonor.4061]

I had to rant.But note in the above rant I wasn't off topic and I wasn't intentionally being rude to anybody. Just putting that out there to be clear

[nthmetal.9652]

@"Knighthonor.4061" said:Also the lack of Trinity play a role here as well. Note that all those other RvR MMos have group Trinity roles. They there for a reason. Healers help prolong the fights and create strategies and tactics. Right now it's all just one big DPS fest. The WvW support builds aren't real healers that can counter the heavy zerg damage. Which brinds me to my next point is that WvW doesn't even provide players with the needed passive damage reduction. In WoW you had Resilience as a stat to bring down those massive PvE damage numbers when fighting against players. We on the other hand have to rely on a useless Toughness stat and protection Boon which is temporary, can be removed or corrupted and obviously not good enough.

Don't agree. We do have specific roles in GW2 in general; they are just assigned differently. We do have desginated healers in WvW. That we don't have enough damage reduction, that damage and protection are so "binary" in their nature (you either get damaged A LOT QUICKLY or NOT AT ALL) is a huge problem. The lack of a holy trinity is not relevant to this problem IMO. The current lack of class variance in the meta is a problem. The combat system could do with a big overhaul. It would be better to adress (many of) the current problems on a general level - the combat system - instead of the professions.For example: What if AoE stacking was suddenly way less effective, because it would yield diminishing returns? BAM, the current AoE meta would have to change drastically without ever touching the professions. On the other hand: If you only touch scourge, who says that not some other AoE caster class will replace them? (also if you touch Scourge, you basically have to touch FB, if you do that, you might have to touch all the damage-dealing classes, etc.)

This goes hand it hand with something else: The meta is static, it isn't changing, it isn't changing enough to lead to any real gameplay changes and zerg composition changes.

You know, there's (at least) one game developer out there, who runs the same game since 2013, they run one game, they can live off it, and they win players: Grinding Gear Games with Path of Exile. What they do is, they have seasons and with each season you start anew, and they introduce new features and remove old features. They change the game (and not just the classes) with these features.

Now obviously you cannot apply this kind of logic to GW2 as a whole (or maybe you can, if you're clever about it. Not sure), but you could apply it to WvW. It is ideal for this kind of thing: We have resets every week, so we basically always start anew anyways. We have new linkups every 2 months. It would be easy (just from a conceptual point of view, not from a development time of view) to phase in new features every ~16 weeks and remove other features. You could keep changing the WvW game and keep it interesting. Keep the game interesting, keep the game changing, change is life, life is change.

[kash.9213]

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

bye bye then =) you shouldnt force youself to play if your not having fun.

i myself played swtr, and wow. and i have multiple games from other platforms from rpg to chess. my wife and i still play diablo 3 and i still pop in for starcraft league every now and then.

I have played since the very beginning, and in WvW, I am one off those who been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the DVD, and whatever, and well the current crowd do not know how to play efficiently, and achieve with 20, what they cannot achieve with 60. I have seen all the META's come and go - oh well - guess it is time ...

Then told I am an kitten for telling them otherwise

well, ppl will do what they want. and if they dont learn from repeated wipes, they're probably not really meant for wvw.

it is easy for me, but, to others it is not. and those who find it easy is simply good at other games too.

They do what they want, basically because they do not have faith in the ability of the squad, and or commander.

Back in the day, we would check which commander was running, and bring what we knew fitted.

You don't trust the squad, or the commander, then you bring a build, that you believe gives you the best chance, regardless of the commander or squad. Way it works.

Back in the day, we had guilds that daily demonstrated that their method worked. And off duty guild members made up the majority of the zerg.

Today you have a bunch of clueless hopefuls, running after a commander. And the commander preys he gets a solid core group, to keep him alive, and that the zerg at least sticks to him mostly.

Hell for both the zerg, and the commander.

No one wins, not the zerglings, not the commander, not the server, they all losers.

Most of us pubs trust the ability of nearly all of our commanders, but it's hard when you have limited play time and spotty afk to be locked into a squad and voice coms, plus you take the hint that they want a different class or whatever.

[Elf Lord.8962]

@kash.9213 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@Sovereign.1093 said:

@Elf Lord.8962 said:

@nthmetal.9652 said:

@Dhemize.8649 said:But it's not; at least to those who already left because of [various reasons]. Having a tournament tryhard mode won't convince people to come back to this slop.

There's a revolutionary idea: How about those people just ... shut up? If someone's already left and isn't coming back anyway, their whining has nothing to do with their current experience anymore, obviously.

I'm having fun in WvW and judging by our server TS, I'm far from the only one. Judging from the team- and mapchat, too. I'm not saying it's perfect, but there's fun to be had. I can only recommend for ppl to join their server TS, look for a guild with a regular presence on TS, and especially join comms on TS.

You are fortunate to have people on your server who can type and use Team and Map chat, I have been on for hours and get 3 lines in the whole period .

Seems Discord, Team Speak, or similar, are the communication Gods, these days.

its not new, it has always been the major reason for vets to socialize thru those external communication system.

Not new, but the tendency to totally ignore the other communication channels is just going from bad to worse.

Then you wonder time to time, why no one new joins. They cannot if the road there has be severed, then it is impossible for them to travel it. So we just loose, and loose again - ah well ... , so it goes.

i dont wonder because there are those who take time to join. and those who do not, the best i can offer it to not bad mouth them. i like to do my best at the moment, and i expect the same from my guild. hence why i maintain my 10 man core. any more than that, i can't really make meaningful connections. my 10 and others who join us can fight 15 or 20 or 25. thats how effective the voice com is. there is just no better way, unless you seat across each other.

You happy with your 10 man group, enjoy. The remaining 50 have no value to you - awesome - exclude them. Have fun when they are no longer there.

well its not my problem if they want to do their own thing. i can respect that. and those 50 should be able to handle their own. im happy just having my 3 man team too. we know what we can do. we know what we cant. and i am not obligated to carry anyone in this game.

and if the 50 want to join us, ive never turned anyone away. whether im in eu or na. there's only one server i left.

I am on the point of leaving so, shortly it will not matter, just a little while and I'll have my Eternity, then I am done. Bye Bye GW2.

bye bye then =) you shouldnt force youself to play if your not having fun.

i myself played swtr, and wow. and i have multiple games from other platforms from rpg to chess. my wife and i still play diablo 3 and i still pop in for starcraft league every now and then.

I have played since the very beginning, and in WvW, I am one off those who been there, done that, got the T-shirt, the DVD, and whatever, and well the current crowd do not know how to play efficiently, and achieve with 20, what they cannot achieve with 60. I have seen all the META's come and go - oh well - guess it is time ...

Then told I am an kitten for telling them otherwise

well, ppl will do what they want. and if they dont learn from repeated wipes, they're probably not really meant for wvw.

it is easy for me, but, to others it is not. and those who find it easy is simply good at other games too.

They do what they want, basically because they do not have faith in the ability of the squad, and or commander.

Back in the day, we would check which commander was running, and bring what we knew fitted.

You don't trust the squad, or the commander, then you bring a build, that you believe gives you the best chance, regardless of the commander or squad. Way it works.

Back in the day, we had guilds that daily demonstrated that their method worked. And off duty guild members made up the majority of the zerg.

Today you have a bunch of clueless hopefuls, running after a commander. And the commander preys he gets a solid core group, to keep him alive, and that the zerg at least sticks to him mostly.

Hell for both the zerg, and the commander.

No one wins, not the zerglings, not the commander, not the server, they all losers.

Most of us pubs trust the ability of nearly all of our commanders, but it's hard when you have limited play time and spotty afk to be locked into a squad and voice coms, plus you take the hint that they want a different class or whatever.

Much truth in that as well ...