Dedicated roles?

[Drakz.7051]

Those values died with the release of HoT and raids partially because Anet let it happen and partially because of the community and meta.

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Drakz.7051" said:Those values died with the release of HoT and raids partially because Anet let it happen and partially because of the community and meta.Seriously, with HoT they introduced Druid - an elite spec built around healing. It wasn't just "letting it happen". They encouraged it.

[Brynioch.1873]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Drakz.7051" said:Those values died with the release of HoT and raids partially because Anet let it happen and partially because of the community and meta.Seriously, with HoT they introduced Druid - an elite spec built around healing. It wasn't just "letting it happen". They encouraged it.

Can we stop the druid hate already? It got beaten to death already and only exists as a spirit and might slave in PvE with the worst healing of all supporters. The spec is dead in PvP and WvW for a long time now.

Tempest was also initially a support spec that could heal around the same as a druid and is now the pinnacle of healing. It just got overloaded with damage with HoT release because 'Ele mains' felt discriminated when their Elite Specialisation dealt less damage than core builds. It was just better at damage than healing so nobody used it as a support.

If druid had never existed tempest would have taken that place and we would be in the same situation.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Miellyn.6847 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Drakz.7051" said:Those values died with the release of HoT and raids partially because Anet let it happen and partially because of the community and meta.Seriously, with HoT they introduced Druid - an elite spec built around healing. It wasn't just "letting it happen". They encouraged it.

Can we stop the druid hate already? It got beaten to death already and only exists as a spirit and might slave in PvE with the worst healing of all supporters. The spec is dead in PvP and WvW for a long time now.I don't hate the druid (i actually quite like that espec and consider it one of the best espec jobs by Anet - a true sidegrade, that expands the class capabilities without being a direct upgrade to what the class was able to do already, like many of the other ones). I merely point out that it was designed as a heal spec. It's more than just a healing traitline (like it's the case for water ele or ventari revenant) - the whole espec class mechanic (celestial avatar) is built around healing. I'm not going to judge that design decision. I'm not going to comment how it turned out. I'm just pointing out that it cannot be seen as anything but a push to create a dedicated healer role. And of course we've had the pulsing damage in raids making sure that a constant healing would be necessary, just in case noone would take the hint. It's not like it was the community's doing, and Anet merely allowed it to happen - they clearly

intended

this to happen.

Notice, that it doesn't have anything to do with the druid specifically. If not the druid, it would have been (like you said) the tempest. Or the Ventari. Since Anet wanted this to happen, they would have made sure that at least one of the healing options would be good enough to not be ignored.

[Hugs.1856]

Having set roles is a healthy design choice because it allows variety in playstyles, team interactions and a better sense of identity.

Plus, players will always go for the perceived fastest and safest route, which will lock down a meta.

The real issue is about the roles themselves - do they promote a fun and engaging experience- and the efficiency gap between the different setups - you don't need a healer in fractals but it makes pugging that much smoother-

[mercury ranique.2170]

@perilisk.1874 said:

@"mercury ranique.2170" said:When it comes to winning, you need to do two things (individual or as a team). 11: stay alive2: deal damage.The issue is that for the first it is a goal that you can reach and then it is done. The second is that you never deal enough damage as faster killing means more efficiency. So it is always good to have as less heal/support/tank as is needed to survive and the rest focusses on dps. This is how it goes in any game. It is nearly impossible to break with this without changing the goal of the fight. One way to so this is with damage avoidance techniques. Dodge/rolling certain red circles and making this more challenging is one way to do it, but with a risk to turn the fight in a sort of jumping puzzle concept.So in short, trinity in itself exist due to effectiveness in a fight and is unavoidable. It can be dimmed, but outcancelling is not possible.

There's no reason they can't change the goals of the fight, though, or kinda-sorta do it through encounter design.

For example, you could theoretically make a boss invulnerable to players, and players have to trigger phases where an NPC pounds the boss while increasing waves of adds try to kill the NPC -- the longer it holds out, and the more offensive boons on it, the more damage done to the boss.

Or, as a non-boss encounter, just have a "hold out until the cavalry arrives" scenario.

In either case, DPS helps relieve the pressure, but it doesn't actually win the day. Of course, those fights will still have a meta, but it might at least be a different one.

You actually make my point, there are many tricks to work around the simple kill and do not get killed base. But in the end, they are tricks and without structurally changing the goal of the game (PvE), it will always be tricks.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

This game is driven by metas. And right now the meta is how you described. It will change. There is no dedicated rolls in gw2