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What did he mean by this XD

Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited February 6, 2020 in Mesmer

@Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

Mesmer:

In this update we are making some changes to the greatsword and domination trait line in order to provide a more reliable baseline ranged damage build or mesmer. We are removing the Confounding Suggestions trait which has been problematic to balance in the past due to its power level and adding in a new trait Vicious Expression which plays better with the Domination line's boon removal. Finally we are changing the Mirage Elusive Mind to no longer break stuns as we feel that the necessity of including exhaustion as a balancing factor has made it too binary as a choice.

  • Elusive Mind: This trait no longer stunbreaks or inflicts exhaustion. Increased the number of conditions cleansed from 1 to 3 in PvE, and to 2 in PvP and WvW.

Feels like vindication.
Mesmers are too nice in the community we need to punch back and call out terrible mistakes by the devs.
So hears to you Anet for not listening.
And then listening.
Even if this isnt enough.

Maybe if mesmers stopped being so nice and pushed back more we can fix chaotic interruption too.

For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

Comments

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I dont see any problem shere
    developer clearly stated that " provide a more reliable baseline ranged damage build or mesmer. "
    build OR mesmer, its very clearly written that mesmer is not allowed to have reliable baseline ranged damage build.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2020

    as we feel that the necessity of including exhaustion as a balancing factor has made it too binary as a was a mistake and effectively deleted the trait as a viable choice.

    Even then they go with the most boring solution to slap on an extra condi cleanse.

    If the endurance wasn't dropping to 50, this would probably be too powerful in terms of condi cleanse - even with 1 condi it was very strong before exhaustion for the cleanse alone, nevermind stunbreak.

    It still doesn't solve anything.

    IH is still necessary to do any decent damage, and the whole Mirage traitline is still an incoherent mess.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    they can make it cleanse 10 conditions for all I care, still would be unusable becouse mirage is trash without IH

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    they can make it cleanse 10 conditions for all I care, still would be unusable becouse mirage is trash without IH

    Im pretty sure the other guy agrees with you atleast i do.

    I was here defending Elusive mind 2 years ago against the irrational mesmer hate but it seems to me in my premature exit many of the mesmers on the forums either quit or gave up, Do not worry fellow mesmer i am back and with your help and the help of other mesmers if they should choose to enter the fold we will undo the unbelievably bias changes Anet has made to the class.

    But we have to cry and fight as much or maybe even harder then the other classes on the forums it will not be easy but we can fix this.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh yeah I agree with both of you. :)

    I just can't be bothered to spend the effort writing much anymore when it's clear neither mesmer nor gw2 as a whole is ever going to be in the positive state it could have been in.

    Keeping an eye in here in case there's some miraculous series of patches this year that rekindles some sense of fun and satisfaction, though expectations are low.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 6, 2020

    To be fair it's not really the fault of the mesmer forum haters as a lot of the hate posts were legitimate issues that even a lot of mesmer players agreed with and tried offering up real solutions but anet kept nerfing around the issue's over and over solving little each time resulting in the mess now. How long have mesmer mains been saying IH is OP and needs changed and that their tired of their class being mutilated as anet dances around it? Been yrs no? Now u lose a dodge for kitten sakes.
    Maybe next ull get a max of one clone for ur ambush lol.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It just comes down to the fact that developers dont like mesmer. Just read guard patch notes on general forums, just buffs buffs and buffs.
    When mesmer has something naughty it gets compleatly removed or overnerfed to kitten. other classes can enjoy overtuned things all they want with no nerfs whatsoever.
    chrono has lost time, ele has lightning rod. LT removed from the game, LR wasnt even nerfed. not in a big patch.
    CI removed from the game.
    Portal overnerfed ( for good reason I believe but the point still stands )
    Chrono gutted.
    the only thing they hate as much as mesmer seems to be druid lol

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It just comes down to the fact that developers dont like mesmer. Just read guard patch notes on general forums, just buffs buffs and buffs.
    When mesmer has something naughty it gets compleatly removed or overnerfed to kitten. other classes can enjoy overtuned things all they want with no nerfs whatsoever.
    chrono has lost time, ele has lightning rod. LT removed from the game, LR wasnt even nerfed. not in a big patch.
    CI removed from the game.
    Portal overnerfed ( for good reason I believe but the point still stands )
    Chrono gutted.
    the only thing they hate as much as mesmer seems to be druid lol

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    they can make it cleanse 10 conditions for all I care, still would be unusable becouse mirage is trash without IH

    When pof released (almost) everyone played EM instead of IH, in fact, some people even said IH wasn't good.
    Now with the huge amount of nerfs to mirage yes, no IH would hurt the already pathetic mesmer sustain damage.
    But who cares about IH and EM when with only one dodge, you can't even manage it and have to spam it in order to be effective.

    The degenerate

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    It just comes down to the fact that developers dont like mesmer. Just read guard patch notes on general forums, just buffs buffs and buffs.
    When mesmer has something naughty it gets compleatly removed or overnerfed to kitten. other classes can enjoy overtuned things all they want with no nerfs whatsoever.
    chrono has lost time, ele has lightning rod. LT removed from the game, LR wasnt even nerfed. not in a big patch.
    CI removed from the game.
    Portal overnerfed ( for good reason I believe but the point still stands )
    Chrono gutted.
    the only thing they hate as much as mesmer seems to be druid lol

    Never attrbute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

    // Yanim

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    It just comes down to the fact that developers dont like mesmer. Just read guard patch notes on general forums, just buffs buffs and buffs.
    When mesmer has something naughty it gets compleatly removed or overnerfed to kitten. other classes can enjoy overtuned things all they want with no nerfs whatsoever.
    chrono has lost time, ele has lightning rod. LT removed from the game, LR wasnt even nerfed. not in a big patch.
    CI removed from the game.
    Portal overnerfed ( for good reason I believe but the point still stands )
    Chrono gutted.
    the only thing they hate as much as mesmer seems to be druid lol

    Never attrbute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

    Its not about incompetence, its way past that.
    Its flawed mentality, remember IoL nerf? first thing they wanted to do was nerf it by 60%, becouse its mesmer. If that was any other class it would not even get touched becouse " nobody uses it "
    The more I read the patch the more I realised that all they did was blanked nerf of 30%. And then just overnerfed whatever people complained in their posts.
    shadowsomething whine on sharper immages so it was nerfed by 95%
    someone whine on ToF alot so it got almost double the CD while other skills got 5s extra CD lol.
    PW thief whine and behold extra 1 ini cost, but they forgot to nerf S/D thiefs 3 skill and many other thief skills.

    Thief did get off easy but the devs don't hate mesmer, it has been meta for much of the game's lifespan. Though classes with AI such as mesmer are hard to balance (not just in gw).

    // Yanim

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Greatsword 2 (Mirrorblade) is already 8s cooldown in all modes so there's actually no change there.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    Greatsword 2 (Mirrorblade) is already 8s cooldown in all modes so there's actually no change there.

    its just pve buff, but CD reducing trait is removed so you cant lower it anymore

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Quadox.7834 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    It just comes down to the fact that developers dont like mesmer. Just read guard patch notes on general forums, just buffs buffs and buffs.
    When mesmer has something naughty it gets compleatly removed or overnerfed to kitten. other classes can enjoy overtuned things all they want with no nerfs whatsoever.
    chrono has lost time, ele has lightning rod. LT removed from the game, LR wasnt even nerfed. not in a big patch.
    CI removed from the game.
    Portal overnerfed ( for good reason I believe but the point still stands )
    Chrono gutted.
    the only thing they hate as much as mesmer seems to be druid lol

    Never attrbute to malice what can be attributed to incompetence.

    Its not about incompetence, its way past that.
    Its flawed mentality, remember IoL nerf? first thing they wanted to do was nerf it by 60%, becouse its mesmer. If that was any other class it would not even get touched becouse " nobody uses it "
    The more I read the patch the more I realised that all they did was blanked nerf of 30%. And then just overnerfed whatever people complained in their posts.
    shadowsomething whine on sharper immages so it was nerfed by 95%
    someone whine on ToF alot so it got almost double the CD while other skills got 5s extra CD lol.
    PW thief whine and behold extra 1 ini cost, but they forgot to nerf S/D thiefs 3 skill and many other thief skills.

    Thief did get off easy but the devs don't hate mesmer, it has been meta for much of the game's lifespan. Though classes with AI such as mesmer are hard to balance (not just in gw).

    Being meta durin 4 years over 7 isn't what I call a long life meta in regards to some other class.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    they can make it cleanse 10 conditions for all I care, still would be unusable becouse mirage is trash without IH

    Im pretty sure the other guy agrees with you atleast i do.

    I was here defending Elusive mind 2 years ago against the irrational mesmer hate but it seems to me in my premature exit many of the mesmers on the forums either quit or gave up, Do not worry fellow mesmer i am back and with your help and the help of other mesmers if they should choose to enter the fold we will undo the unbelievably bias changes Anet has made to the class.

    But we have to cry and fight as much or maybe even harder then the other classes on the forums it will not be easy but we can fix this.

    Ummm, but we have cried and fought in the past over these stupid decision over and over and over again. That doesn't help; history shows us this (unless you count complaining about EM being worthless for 2 years a success :/ ) . How long it took for that trait to change just shows us how bad things really are. The devs likely don't even read this section of the forums and even if they did, their actions have repeatedly demonstrated that they either don't care or are incapable. The past shows that the only way to solve this is to shift your focus. If you don't agree with an approach, then for god's sake quite spending money on the product or declare that you won't in the future. If nothing changes then just let good old Darwin's theory do what it does best. I have already deleted gw2 off my computer quite a long time ago and that is all I can do. It doesn't take anyone special to tell that PvP in Gw2 and Gw2 in general isn't doing very good right now and hasn't for some time now. Of course, they would never in a million years admit that balancing decisions had anything to do with it (◔_◔). Even wooden potatoes admitted he had to change things up by now.

    If the opportunity to talk to Anet has already long come to pass, then the best you can do is talk to and support each other instead.
    Buuuuut, for god sakes, quite talking like you think things will change by now just because you only typed some keys on a computer and clicked enter.
    They won't!

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 10, 2020

    @Xstein.2187 said:

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    they can make it cleanse 10 conditions for all I care, still would be unusable becouse mirage is trash without IH

    Im pretty sure the other guy agrees with you atleast i do.

    I was here defending Elusive mind 2 years ago against the irrational mesmer hate but it seems to me in my premature exit many of the mesmers on the forums either quit or gave up, Do not worry fellow mesmer i am back and with your help and the help of other mesmers if they should choose to enter the fold we will undo the unbelievably bias changes Anet has made to the class.

    But we have to cry and fight as much or maybe even harder then the other classes on the forums it will not be easy but we can fix this.

    Ummm, but we have cried and fought in the past over these stupid decision over and over and over again. That doesn't help; history shows us this (unless you count complaining about EM being worthless for 2 years a success :/ ) . How long it took for that trait to change just shows us how bad things really are. The devs likely don't even read this section of the forums and even if they did, their actions have repeatedly demonstrated that they either don't care or are incapable. The past shows that the only way to solve this is to shift your focus. If you don't agree with an approach, then for god's sake quite spending money on the product or declare that you won't in the future. If nothing changes then just let good old Darwin's theory do what it does best. I have already deleted gw2 off my computer quite a long time ago and that is all I can do. It doesn't take anyone special to tell that PvP in Gw2 and Gw2 in general isn't doing very good right now and hasn't for some time now. Of course, they would never in a million years admit that balancing decisions had anything to do with it (◔_◔). Even wooden potatoes admitted he had to change things up by now.

    If the opportunity to talk to Anet has already long come to pass, then the best you can do is talk to and support each other instead.
    Buuuuut, for god sakes, quite talking like you think things will change by now just because you only typed some keys on a computer and clicked enter.
    They won't!

    Many mesmer players quit and nowhere to be found. Zero desire to fix chrono/mirage means they dont care how many would quit/alrdy did (Surprisingly they put a lot of work to rework scrapper and review changes, buff daredevil and pack its traits into minors, I wonder, what made them do it :D )
    Content-shop is still working and making money, thats what matters the most :)

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xstein.2187 said:
    The devs likely don't even read this section of the forums and even if they did, their actions have repeatedly demonstrated that they either don't care or are incapable.

    They read this section or at least they used to (last time they buffed Confounding Suggestions according to the suggestion on the huge mesmer community buffs/nerfs thread) but can't give a kitten about it.
    Nowadays they might come here just for the lulz.

    The degenerate

  • Genesis.5169Genesis.5169 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 11, 2020

    Devs read the forums atleast they used too. But at the very least things are so bad right now the last thing we should do is nothing. So even if its on deaf ears we gotta still try this one dodge on mirage needs to be undone.

    For those on the forums who advocate for the removal of duo queues in Spvp, realize your actions over the past 7 years has destroyed gw2 Spvp and thinking doing the same thing again is a good idea after several years of it not working crazy. Get better at pvp.

  • Odik.4587Odik.4587 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Noodle Ant.1605 said:
    Also devs:

    Bountiful Blades (NEW): Mirror Blades bounces 2 additional times. Phantasmal Berserker summons an additional berserker and they each deal less damage (33% instead of 25% less damage.

    Looks useful on non-GS setups /s.

    Compare this to Fencer's Finesse:

    Explosive Temper (NEW): Explosions grant +20 stacking Ferocity for 10 seconds when they hit (10 stacks max)

    Or check out Honed Axes (free +120 vs +150 stacking w/ correct weapon), it's even getting more effects now too (for reasons unknown).

    Warrior GS trait is now overloaded as fook. 120+120. Thief sword is the same. Stealth dodge on DE. (Weaver had something like this? Cba to look after it). Worth to mention some bloated trait - attackers insight - reset bursts and gives up to 450 stats total and its super easy to get. Some wardefenders be like "its gm trait, it must be overloaded", then I look at mirage/chrono gm minors and be like "wth? Is that a grandmaster traits?" If something they do its fix biggest flaw of mirage evade (by a tiny bit)
    Dont you find funny that drd getting 3 evades and better evades(3) when mirage is getting worse evade and dodge taken away tho?

  • Xaylin.1860Xaylin.1860 Member ✭✭✭

    @Odik.4587 said:
    Dont you find funny that drd getting 3 evades and better evades(3) when mirage is getting worse evade and dodge taken away tho?

    I'd take 50% shorter Shatter-range for 3 dodges anytime ;)

  • As someone who mainly plays solo PvE and open world bosses/events I'm looking at the massive nerf to cripple on greatsword and can't seen anything but a world of pain for kiting with no compensation in survivability. The 2.5s traited cripple is lost on Mirror Blade, Mind Stab, Illusionary Berserker, and Illusionary Wave. Mind Stab gains 5s (currently?) cripple on a 10s time, but doesn't have the bounce range for crippling spread out groups or knockback to get some breathing room. With perfect timing and some willingness to sacrifice DPS & positioning you could get 70%+ cripple on a small set of mobs in an encounter (not players!), now you're not going to hit 50% even if you stand still & spam it. To get close you're going to have to prioritize an ability that either requires very careful aim or using snap targeting over our actual damage-dealing abilities. Was the rationale that it wasn't easy enough to catch mesmers in WvW and they needed to nerf us or is being able to run away and stealth less than a thief somehow the overpowered new meta for PvE?

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    they can make it cleanse 10 conditions for all I care, still would be unusable becouse mirage is trash without IH

    Im pretty sure the other guy agrees with you atleast i do.

    I was here defending Elusive mind 2 years ago against the irrational mesmer hate but it seems to me in my premature exit many of the mesmers on the forums either quit or gave up, Do not worry fellow mesmer i am back and with your help and the help of other mesmers if they should choose to enter the fold we will undo the unbelievably bias changes Anet has made to the class.

    But we have to cry and fight as much or maybe even harder then the other classes on the forums it will not be easy but we can fix this.

    Like that could possibly work, look at how much crying we made after this guys butchered chrono with no reason whatsoever, making it umplayable, and one of the most dull and boring specs to play even in pve, and several months after we got nothing but neglection..

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭

    Worst part is, we can’t do anything about it. ANET doesn’t care if a class isn’t played, as evidenced by Renegade the past 3 years. To them it’s just one less class to worry about balancing, so good for them.
    I tried limiting my dodges to one for the oast few days just to get a feel of it. I gotta say I didn’t feel it too bad on the damage side. But boy does it get cucked when your back is against the wall.

    [HCM] 4 life!

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Worst part is, we can’t do anything about it. ANET doesn’t care if a class isn’t played, as evidenced by Renegade the past 3 years. To them it’s just one less class to worry about balancing, so good for them.
    I tried limiting my dodges to one for the oast few days just to get a feel of it. I gotta say I didn’t feel it too bad on the damage side. But boy does it get cucked when your back is against the wall.

    now combine it with increased cooldowns for scepter 2, axe 3 and staff 2 :D
    add in reductions to protection and regeneration.

  • ArlAlt.1630ArlAlt.1630 Member ✭✭✭
    edited February 21, 2020

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @ArlAlt.1630 said:
    Worst part is, we can’t do anything about it. ANET doesn’t care if a class isn’t played, as evidenced by Renegade the past 3 years. To them it’s just one less class to worry about balancing, so good for them.
    I tried limiting my dodges to one for the oast few days just to get a feel of it. I gotta say I didn’t feel it too bad on the damage side. But boy does it get cucked when your back is against the wall.

    now combine it with increased cooldowns for scepter 2, axe 3 and staff 2 :D
    add in reductions to protection and regeneration.

    Already found work arounds to those, save for the protection, but if the dmg scales down enough, I might not need it that much.

    Edit: That being said, it seems that it will be nigh impossible for Mirage to stay on node. Thief already +1s better. Core power shatter meta?

    [HCM] 4 life!

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭

    @Genesis.5169 said:
    Devs read the forums atleast they used too. But at the very least things are so bad right now the last thing we should do is nothing. So even if its on deaf ears we gotta still try this one dodge on mirage needs to be undone.

    I never said to do nothing. I just said complaining on the forums hasn't been helping.
    Besides, sometimes not doing something can be just as effective, if not more.