Suggestion: Make "Rise!" a core skill

[Legoar.2150]

to push condi scourge, and make death magic more usefull in pve, it would be nice to make "Rise!" a core skill.And before someone complain, when its not a shout but a minion skill or a signet everything would be fine.

[Dadnir.5038]

Well there are a lot of things that are poorly done on the necromancer and it's e-specs... Minions and the distribution of traits effects in death magic are among those things. Personally, I've long lost hope that they will somehow fix those things, they prove time and time again that they aren't interested in fixing and prefer trying their hand in balancing broken things through number tweaks.

Having major traits dedicated to minions without an inate source of minions is a major flaw of death magic and is most likely the underlying reason that lead you to ask for "rise!" to be a core skill. It's understandable, you got traits that have no use without minions, no natural minion's generation, lacklusters core minion skills and, out of the blue, "rise!" that is litterally everything you could ask to complement this traitline in a single skill... That said, giving "rise!" to the core wouldn't change the flaw of death magic, so...

[KrHome.1920]

Get rid of the ugly minions and rework "rise!" to a damage mitigation skill that uses some kind of cool animated shield around the reaper instead.

Reasons: the only reason why we have "rise!" is that anet thought the reaper spec should get a shout that pleases minion master players and that can make some use of the death magic traits. The skilldesign itself is just dumb and the skill has been overnerfed regarding its former purpose (mitigating damage) just because it has too strong synergies with the minion traits.

[Orack.9756]

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well there are a lot of things that are poorly done on the necromancer and it's e-specs... Minions and the distribution of traits effects in death magic are among those things. Personally, I've long lost hope that they will somehow fix those things, they prove time and time again that they aren't interested in fixing and prefer trying their hand in balancing broken things through number tweaks.

Having major traits dedicated to minions without an inate source of minions is a major flaw of death magic and is most likely the underlying reason that lead you to ask for "rise!" to be a core skill. It's understandable, you got traits that have no use without minions, no natural minion's generation, lacklusters core minion skills and, out of the blue, "rise!" that is litterally everything you could ask to complement this traitline in a single skill... That said, giving "rise!" to the core wouldn't change the flaw of death magic, so...

The only thing I don't understand in DM tree is : why carapace give use Toughness while Necro mechanic shroud is about Vitality pool :/I don't have problem with this line otherwise.

[KrHome.1920]

@Orack.9756 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well there are a lot of things that are poorly done on the necromancer and it's e-specs... Minions and the distribution of traits effects in death magic are among those things. Personally, I've long lost hope that they will somehow fix those things, they prove time and time again that they aren't interested in fixing and prefer trying their hand in balancing broken things through number tweaks.

Having major traits dedicated to minions without an inate source of minions is a major flaw of death magic and is most likely the underlying reason that lead you to ask for "rise!" to be a core skill. It's understandable, you got traits that have no use without minions, no natural minion's generation, lacklusters core minion skills and, out of the blue, "rise!" that is litterally everything you could ask to complement this traitline in a single skill... That said, giving "rise!" to the core wouldn't change the flaw of death magic, so...

The only thing I don't understand in DM tree is : why carapace give use Toughness while Necro mechanic shroud is about Vitality pool :/I don't have problem with this line otherwise.DM - besides the minion buffs - is about damage mitigation (protection, toughness, less incoming condi damage via multipliers and cleanses). Vitality does not mitigate damage. It does it in "some" way when you are in core- and reaper-shroud, which lowers your incoming damage, but it is not a mitigation in the first place.

If they continue their agenda to remove toughness from traits (so that the player not accidently becomes the mob tank in pve) then we can expect a replacement of the toughness on carapace with a multiplier - sth. like every carapace lowers your incoming direct damage by 0.5%, up to 15% at 30 carapace.

[Orack.9756]

@KrHome.1920 said:

@Orack.9756 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Well there are a lot of things that are poorly done on the necromancer and it's e-specs... Minions and the distribution of traits effects in death magic are among those things. Personally, I've long lost hope that they will somehow fix those things, they prove time and time again that they aren't interested in fixing and prefer trying their hand in balancing broken things through number tweaks.

Having major traits dedicated to minions without an inate source of minions is a major flaw of death magic and is most likely the underlying reason that lead you to ask for "rise!" to be a core skill. It's understandable, you got traits that have no use without minions, no natural minion's generation, lacklusters core minion skills and, out of the blue, "rise!" that is litterally everything you could ask to complement this traitline in a single skill... That said, giving "rise!" to the core wouldn't change the flaw of death magic, so...

The only thing I don't understand in DM tree is : why carapace give use Toughness while Necro mechanic shroud is about Vitality pool :/I don't have problem with this line otherwise.DM - besides the minion buffs - is about damage mitigation (protection, toughness, less incoming condi damage via multipliers and cleanses). Vitality does not mitigate damage. It does it in "some" way when you are in core- and reaper-shroud, which lowers your incoming damage, but it is not a mitigation in the first place.

If they continue their agenda to remove toughness from traits (so that the player not accidently becomes the mob tank in pve) then we can expect a replacement of the toughness on carapace with a multiplier - sth. like every carapace lowers your incoming direct damage by 0.5%, up to 15% at 30 carapace.

Yeah make sens, would be a good change to ^^

[Dadnir.5038]

@KrHome.1920 said:If they continue their agenda to remove toughness from traits (so that the player not accidently becomes the mob tank in pve) then we can expect a replacement of the toughness on carapace with a multiplier - sth. like every carapace lowers your incoming direct damage by 0.5%, up to 15% at 30 carapace.

Somehow I have the feeling that ANet's dev won't do that. Personally I'd be content if they just make deadly strength remove toughness from carapace in favor of power (I'd be overjoyed if in the process some condition damage are added to carapace when traited with deadly strength ).

[Kodama.6453]

What are you trading for Rise as a core skill?Every elite spec comes with 1 new healing skill, 4 utility skills, 1 elite skill.Making Rise a core skill would give necromancer 1 more core skill than the other classes and reaper having 1 less. Which would be weird.

If you really want to implement that change, then you should suggest which core skill should get reworked into a shout for reapers in exchange.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Kodama.6453 said:What are you trading for Rise as a core skill?Every elite spec comes with 1 new healing skill, 4 utility skills, 1 elite skill.Making Rise a core skill would give necromancer 1 more core skill than the other classes and reaper having 1 less. Which would be weird.

If you really want to implement that change, then you should suggest which core skill should get reworked into a shout for reapers in exchange.

If I've read properly he want to trade the active of one of the signets. Probably the active of SoU which would be a good ridance and it would most likely please the sPvP community to see a rallying skill disappear. (That said, the signet idea might be overpowered granted how signet of suffering work)

[Legoar.2150]

@"Kodama.6453" said:What are you trading for Rise as a core skill?Every elite spec comes with 1 new healing skill, 4 utility skills, 1 elite skill.Making Rise a core skill would give necromancer 1 more core skill than the other classes and reaper having 1 less. Which would be weird.

If you really want to implement that change, then you should suggest which core skill should get reworked into a shout for reapers in exchange.

there are enough skills to trade for and replace it with. activate the new "rise" signet for instance and have the same effect, passive you could get Power - so the Signet of Spite for instance

the signet goes to reaper, a shout which gives you a small power boost for every enemy you hit (not Power Boon)

I Just want to suggest a better option for condi scourge, than for a condi reaper, which nobody plays

[Lahmia.2193]

@"KrHome.1920" said:Get rid of the ugly minions and rework "rise!" to a damage mitigation skill that uses some kind of cool animated shield around the reaper instead.

Reasons: the only reason why we have "rise!" is that anet thought the reaper spec should get a shout that pleases minion master players and that can make some use of the death magic traits. The skilldesign itself is just dumb and the skill has been overnerfed regarding its former purpose (mitigating damage) just because it has too strong synergies with the minion traits.

I miss the old rise, that just spawned a bunch of jagged horrors instead.

[Nimon.7840]

@Legoar.2150Sorry but how should this increase damage for condi scourge? Or anyhow benefit condi scourge? Lifeforce isn't a problem since signet is will there, unless you can get even more lifeforce from the new rise skill you're suggesting.

Maybe if you play deathmagic condi scourge, but then you need several things to line up:

1. A boss that has no toughness mechanic (cause tanking with necro is most of the times a bad idea)
2. Or a tank with incredible high toughness
3. A boss that spawns adds
4. A boss that spawns adds that count towards death Nova trait for summoning jagged horrors

There's a difference between shambling horrors that the shout generates and jagged horrors that the trait and the lich rune generate.