Reimagining Long-Form, Instanced Content: Delves

[Tempest.8479]

Before I begin, I’d like to preface this concept by saying that I’m by no means a person with any game development experience, or someone who would have any clue how difficult a concept like this would be to implement. This is purely a thought exercise that I wanted to share and gather any feedback on. With a new expansion on the horizon, I thought I would try to conceptualize what endgame, instanced content could look like going forward.

The Need for Truly Transitional Endgame

As it stands, it appears that raids are not in active development. The amount of players that actively raid is comparably small, and even without the promise of a new raid coming any time soon, I feel like there are several challenges preventing more of the player base from participating. The concept of strike missions, while an interesting system, is not quite living up to its billing as content designed to transition players into raids.

Even with strikes, I still think that it’s difficult to bridge the gap between players who play the game more casually and those willing to invest the time and effort into a raid. Raids themselves were never really designed with this transition in mind, which has led to an increasing split and animosity between players with different sets of expectations and perceptions of how the game should be played.

Even as strikes try to introduce new players to 10-man content, it can be argued that there is not enough carry-over in the mechanics of a strike boss and a raid boss. It also still does little to address the paradoxical system where players need to already understand how to be good at using their classes in an instanced, raid-difficulty environment without being able to understand what that environment is like until they are already in a raid or strike. With no real in-game way to gradually introduce players to things like enrage timers, tanking in GW2, and actual bosses to test a raid rotation on while familiarizing themselves with different mechanics outside of raid wings themselves, raids will remain inaccessible to a significant amount of the player base. To that end, I sought to create a new method of delivering instanced endgame content that builds mechanics gradually and gives new and veteran players alike, even those who feel that they don’t have the ability to participate in endgame, a way to “graduate” into raiding.

Introducing Delves

Uncover ancient secrets and ruins once thought lost to time, push your way into hostile enemy territory, reconnect with civilizations long isolated, and much more in a new narrative-driven content package that combines and reimagines the best of solo, 5-player, and 10-player instanced content, known as delves.

Mechanically, delves would be split into 3 phases of escalating difficulty. The first would be a solo mission where a player would be pushed to their limits seeking an initial victory as they push into the unknown. The second would be a new take on long-form, 5-player endgame content that repurposes and redefines dungeons in Guild Wars 2. This would culminate in the last phase, a 10-player raid that builds on every experience that came before it.

All three phases would take advantage of modern endgame innovations like the checkpoint mechanic developed for raids. All three would need to be progressed in order for the first time to unlock permanent access to each subsequent phase, even if the story does not progress linearly. Mechanics established in one would carry over and be expanded in the next.1

Phase 1: Solo

This would be players’ initial foray into the delve. Story justifications could include establishing a foothold into hostile territory, discovering ancient ruins and establishing a base camp for further exploration, reestablishing contact with a town/military instillation isolated by a particular conflict, etc. This initial instance would help set a tone for the other 2 phases, while introducing some of the basic mechanics players will need to contend with throughout the delve. Solo instances would be designed to take more experienced players between 15-20 min, and offer a variety of puzzles and combat encounters that make players rethink their builds to overcome a particular obstacle. This could be completed by 1-5 players, but would not really scale up past the initial solo difficulty. A good place to draw inspiration from would be the Darkrime Delves instance in the Visions of the Past: Steel and Fire release imo, just more difficult. Completing this instance for the first time would unlock access to a phase 1 challenge mote, phase 2, permanent access to enter phase 2 from the initial entrance portal, and a waypoint that serves as a staging area for one or both of the next phases.

Normal progression/bonus chests reset dailyChallenge Mote progression/bonus chests reset daily

Phase 2: 5-Player

This would essentially become the revival and repurposing of 5-player dungeons, only reimagined to take advantage of contemporary mechanics and encounter design. This could serve as a continuation of the phase 1 story, an expansion as a result of the events in the previous phase, or even an unrelated story that only becomes available because the area has been secured. The initial mechanics introduced in phase 1 would be carried over and expanded. This phase would also begin to introduce specific combat mechanics that would be used in phase 3. Examples of this could include enrage timers, different split mechanics on boss phases, and specific attacks that could be seen in phase 3. This new dungeon path would be designed to take experienced players between 30-45 min, and would ideally be virtually impossible to complete with less than 5 players. Completing this instance for the first time would unlock access to a phase 2 challenge mote, phase 3, permanent access to enter phase 3 from the initial entrance portal, and a waypoint that would serve as a staging area for phase 3 if the story progresses more linearly.

Normal progression/bonus chests reset every 3 daysChallenge Mote progression/bonus chests reset every 2 days

Phase 3: 10-Player

This would function as a fully-fledged raid wing, complete with integrated raid currency and access from the Lion’s Arch Aerodrome once it’s unlocked. This could serve as a continuation of the phase 1 or 2 story, an expansion as a result of the events in the previous phase, or even an unrelated story branching out from the same phase 1 staging area that only becomes available because the area has been secured. The mechanics introduced in phase 1 and 2 would be carried over and expanded. Examples of this could include two or more different mechanics introduced in separate phase 2 encounters that need to be completed at the same time, an enhanced variation of specific attacks that were introduced in previous phases, and a combination of different puzzle/special action mechanics introduced previously interacting with boss mechanics. The length and difficulty of these encounters would be on par with previous raid wings, usually containing 3-4 bosses, and would ideally be virtually impossible to complete without 10 players. Completing each boss encounter for the first time would unlock a challenge mote.

Normal progression/bonus chests reset weeklyChallenge Mote progression/bonus chests reset every 3 days

Rewards

Note any specific numbers, amounts, or items would be subject to change.

Normal rewards for each phase would include a set amount of standard chests that include 25 silver, item rewards that would scale to the specific phase that was completed, as well as a small chance of obtaining delve-exclusive items.

Each delve would also come with its own currency only obtainable in a bonus chest awarded after the completion of phase 1, and after defeating each boss in phases 2/3. Each bonus chest would contain 50 s - 1 g, item and currency rewards that would scale to the specific phase that was completed, and an enhanced chance to obtain delve-specific items. Bonus rewards would go on cooldown after the first completion, and reset as specified in each phase’s outline. The number of chests would be distributed as follows:

• Phase 1: 1 chest/1 bonus chest upon completion• Phase 2: Phase 1 rewards + 1 chest/1 bonus chest per boss (4-5 normal chests, 4-5 bonus chests total)• Phase 3: Phase 1 rewards + 2 chests/1 bonus chest per boss (7-9 normal chests, 4-5 bonus chests total)

Challenge mode would add 1 standard/bonus chest upon completion of each phase, as well as an additional standard chest per boss in phases 2/3. Challenge mode rewards would not share a cooldown with standard rewards, so it would be possible to obtain both sets of rewards in one day if neither is on cooldown.

Delve and raid-specific currency could be spent at a vendor located at the staging area following phase 1. Earning enough would allow the purchase of:

• A set of stat-selectable, exotic/ascended armor and/or weapons• A set of stat-selectable, exotic/ascended trinkets• A variant of the armor/weapons/trinkets with a delve-exclusive stat combination for gear• A delve-exclusive rune set, sigil, minis, and more

Each of these rewards could be purchased with gold and a specific amount of delve currency, or obtained at a heavy discount by exchanging raid currency as well.

Difficulty/Profitability

As content designed to be completed in sequence with mechanics that gets built upon and expanded as the difficulty increases, the later phases could be seen as being more “accessible” or “less difficult” than a traditional raid because players would be given the opportunity to familiarize themselves with a significant portion of the mechanics as they progress through the delve. I can already see a small group of the best, most coordinated 10-player groups, 5- player groups, and even solo players feeling that there is a lack of challenge in this new version of long-form, instanced endgame content.

This is where challenge motes kicks in. Once unlocked, a challenge mote will redefine most encounters by adding and replacing mechanics that would not only increase the difficulty, but would also be unique to each encounter. That way, players seeking the ultimate challenge can still have the experience of discovering new mechanics and strategies as they engage a boss for the first time.

Challenge motes would also be more restrictive than previous iterations. By opting to use a challenge mote, players would not only be triggering a harder fight, but they would be locked into the specific group size requirements of the phase. This means that a challenge mote could only be completed solo in phase 1, with 5 players in phase 2, and with 10 in phase 3. Additionally, in a move inspired by the final instance of HoT, players would have their downed state disabled. If all party members wipe the encounter would reset. This would make challenge mote delve encounters the new measure for the best players to test their strengths in the highest-stakes environment possible.

With this significantly increased difficulty comes a significant boost to profitability. With lower reset cooldowns on the rewards for challenge mote progression and bonus rewards when compared to the normal versions, those who master them would be able to turn a significant profit. The reward structure incentivizes players to push themselves to the max, but offers a more reliable, albeit slower, path to earn gold, currency, and delve-exclusive items for those who can’t reach the upper echelons of performance.

What About Other Instanced Content?

I think it’s important to note that I would not want this concept to be developed at the expense of the other instanced content in the game currently in active development, namely fractals and strike missions. I think that each serve a purpose in providing players with a more condensed, repeatable version of long-form, instanced content that can be developed much faster. What fractals are to dungeons, strikes are to raids. Therefore, I would see this development as an expansion of a dedicated raid team that could release delves in addition to new fractals and strikes. If that isn’t feasible, then I would want devs to prioritize refining and delivering content within the systems already present in game.

Conclusion

Congrats! Another essay you’ve made it through. Hopefully you’ve given my idea some thought, so I want to know how you feel. Liked my idea? Didn’t like it? Feel like you can salvage parts of it into something that works? Let me know!

TL;DR: In order to bridge the gap between active raiders and the rest of the community, I’m introducing a new concept for instanced endgame content that combines the best of solo, 5-player, and 10-player instances into a single experience called delves. Increasing difficulty and mechanics that would build from one phase to the next would allow all players to gradually familiarize themselves with raiding mechanics and hopefully be more willing to participate in the fully-fledged raid that comprises phase 3.

[Tyncale.1629]

I dislike modern Raiding. You need very specific specs, you have to be on the ball with all kinds of tactics, timing and jumping through hoops, which you can easily screw up and then ruin it for the rest.

For me, raiding in Everquest with my Guild was a social endeavour where I simply had to bring just more DPS to make the Raid possible/easier plus a few easy to understand pointers for certain events during the raid(no pets, watch adds, that sort of thing). The Raid relied on a few excellent players who were more then happy to carry the Raid that way (Tank, Off tanks/back up tank and Clerics) while the rest (me) just added their DPS. What was expected from you was, show up on time, do not go afk and deliver your dps and play out the raid till the end to collect your DKP. Do not do something really stupid. People couldn't care less about your skill set(or rather class) or gear-score. Basically you put in a time commitment, deliver dps and do not do anything really stupid, and you could be part of it.

This was social and relaxed fun for me and I still got to see all those cool Bosses, without the fear of screwing up the Raid, and have a chance on some of the Raid loot. I was also perfectly fine with the concept of the Tanks and Clerics getting first dibs on loot. Maybe this type of raid relied much on the Holy Trinity, though I think dps is still a big thing in any modern Raid too.

I remember the anticipation while gathering in Plane of Tranquility for some cool PoP raid. :) Now it's all work. :/ The original post (which I appreciate) sort off puts the finger on the sore spot here. "Let's train people to do Raids".

TLDR: design Raids for slackers again.

[Astyrah.4015]

being a Path of Exile player first thing i thought of when i read your title was a gauntlet-type/endless dungeon type of instance where you kept pushing the floors/depths and each one gets tougher than the last.

[Incar.7358]

Fantastic read, but I agree with Tyncale.

8 years in and I've only dipped my toes into raiding, deciding that was enough of that. I would love to be able to go in and complete raids - I want that legendary armour and to see all those bosses - but the overly specific build requirements and practice needed (or at least demanded by many other raiders) is a massive no-no for me. I'm a decent enough player, but such rigidity isn't fun. These delves, while reading well, don't sound like a method of remedying those issues (that I have) but rather highlighting them, which doesn't sound appealing. Especially the length of time required to complete something like that end-to-end.

Fully appreciate that people want hardcore content that requires a lot of patience and practice, even at the expense of alienating much of the rest of the playerbase, but that's not why I or many others play at all. It's nice that people are still trying to find a way to 'ease' people like me into it, and the gradually increasing scale and difficulty is sound in theory, but it's always appeared to me that the majority of players in GW2 are more or less casual. Those who want to raid will, and those who don't, won't. Not really a matter of easing them into it.

[Tempest.8479]

@"Tyncale.1629" said:I dislike modern Raiding. You need very specific specs, you have to be on the ball with all kinds of tactics, timing and jumping through hoops, which you can easily screw up and then ruin it for the rest.

For me, raiding in Everquest with my Guild was a social endeavour where I simply had to bring just more DPS to make the Raid possible/easier plus a few easy to understand pointers for certain events during the raid(no pets, watch adds, that sort of thing). The Raid relied on a few excellent players who were more then happy to carry the Raid that way (Tank, Off tanks/back up tank and Clerics) while the rest (me) just added their DPS. What was expected from you was, show up on time, do not go afk and deliver your dps and play out the raid till the end to collect your DKP. Do not do something really stupid. People couldn't care less about your skill set(or rather class) or gear-score. Basically you put in a time commitment, deliver dps and do not do anything really stupid, and you could be part of it.

This was social and relaxed fun for me and I still got to see all those cool Bosses, without the fear of screwing up the Raid, and have a chance on some of the Raid loot. I was also perfectly fine with the concept of the Tanks and Clerics getting first dibs on loot. Maybe this type of raid relied much on the Holy Trinity, though I think dps is still a big thing in any modern Raid too.

I remember the anticipation while gathering in Plane of Tranquility for some cool PoP raid. :) Now it's all work. :/ The original post (which I appreciate) sort off puts the finger on the sore spot here. "Let's train people to do Raids".

TLDR: design Raids for slackers again.

@Incar.7358 said:Fantastic read, but I agree with Tyncale.

8 years in and I've only dipped my toes into raiding, deciding that was enough of that. I would love to be able to go in and complete raids - I want that legendary armour and to see all those bosses - but the overly specific build requirements and practice needed (or at least demanded by many other raiders) is a massive no-no for me. I'm a decent enough player, but such rigidity isn't fun. These delves, while reading well, don't sound like a method of remedying those issues (that I have) but rather highlighting them, which doesn't sound appealing. Especially the length of time required to complete something like that end-to-end.

Fully appreciate that people want hardcore content that requires a lot of patience and practice, even at the expense of alienating much of the rest of the playerbase, but that's not why I or many others play at all. It's nice that people are still trying to find a way to 'ease' people like me into it, and the gradually increasing scale and difficulty is sound in theory, but it's always appeared to me that the majority of players in GW2 are more or less casual. Those who want to raid will, and those who don't, won't. Not really a matter of easing them into it.

So I can definitely appreciate the sentiment here. As someone who considers themselves to be a reasonably good yet casual player who doesn't participate in raids at all, I understand where this is coming from. By the same token, though, I do appreciate that there's other people who really enjoy the way raids work. I actually designed this concept in a way that I thought, selfishly, could help me get to a place where I didn't find them stressful or work anymore. I feel that the amount of mechanics thrown at someone like me all at once is what causes the sensory overload that could ruin a raid for me. But, if I had been dealing with those mechanics slowly over the course of a solo mission and then a 5-player dungeon, most of the work in understanding what I'm looking for and what to avoid would already be taken care of. Barring a few mechanics people would have to learn from the raid bosses themselves, raids would actually become a lot more accessible because most of the stress from essentially being thrown off the deep end would be gone. And if you or you're group is stuck on a particular mechanic? You can likely go back and practice on a smaller-scale encounter where that singular mechanic might be more emphasized.

And if worst comes to worst and you feel the raid still isn't for you, you'd still have a challenging new solo mission and/or a new dungeon experience to group up with a few friends and push yourselves that way. That way new hardcore content could be added without invalidating its difficulty, but without locking people out from experiencing at least part of the story and challenging boss fights, as well as leaving room for everyone to get the rewards. Everybody wins. The way I see it, this concept would be the closest thing to introducing difficulty levels for raids without actually explicitly doing it. Don't feel like playing on the hardest difficulty? No problem. Don't want to gather 10 people? No problem. Don't feel like playing with anyone at the moment? There's still room for you to enjoy new instanced content.

I agree that the rigidity in specific builds tends to be a turn-off for me as well, but I think that could be addressed by the encounters themselves to some extent. I think boss encounters themselves should be designed for more flexibility in what builds and weapons would be best suited to beat them. For example, just the idea of a boss reworking the phase-shifted mechanic from bounties where it would be completely immune to melee damage at certain points would automatically make a bunch of the ranged weapons players are discouraged from using because they aren't good for maintaining group buffs much more viable, and would actually push players to build with more flexibility in mind

[Yggranya.5201]

Raids have always been comparably small and will forever continue to be so. If your idea was solo all the way, and some 5 player max group if you are so inclined, then sure. If it forces grouping (forcing "team work" just doesn't work), then it will be in the exact same position as raids.

[Tempest.8479]

@"Yggranya.5201" said:Raids have always been comparably small and will forever continue to be so. If your idea was solo all the way, and some 5 player max group if you are so inclined, then sure. If it forces grouping (forcing "team work" just doesn't work), then it will be in the exact same position as raids.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. While raids have always been comparably small, my concept would expand what it means to participate in a "raid" by essentially adding a solo raid and 5-player raid that would build on each other and allow for the possibility to be completed sequentially or individually once the subsequent phases have been unlocked. This could allow players normally averse to the concept an opportunity to familiarize themselves with mechanics and ease into a raid. Even if they don't end up feeling up for participating in 10-player content, though, there would still be solo and 5-player content scaled to the difficulty of a raid that players could participate in to test their abilities.

@Incar.7358 said:These delves, while reading well, don't sound like a method of remedying those issues (that I have) but rather highlighting them, which doesn't sound appealing. Especially the length of time required to complete something like that end-to-end.

I also wanted to address this post again, just in case there was any miscommunication. I updated the OP to better reflect the fact that the 3 phases would only need to be completed sequentially the first time in order for a character to permanently unlock access that would allow them to repeat each phase individually.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Incar.7358 said:Fantastic read, but I agree with Tyncale.

8 years in and I've only dipped my toes into raiding, deciding that was enough of that. I would love to be able to go in and complete raids - I want that legendary armour and to see all those bosses - but the overly specific build requirements and practice needed (or at least demanded by many other raiders) is a massive no-no for me. I'm a decent enough player, but such rigidity isn't fun. These delves, while reading well, don't sound like a method of remedying those issues (that I have) but rather highlighting them, which doesn't sound appealing. Especially the length of time required to complete something like that end-to-end.

Fully appreciate that people want hardcore content that requires a lot of patience and practice, even at the expense of alienating much of the rest of the playerbase, but that's not why I or many others play at all. It's nice that people are still trying to find a way to 'ease' people like me into it, and the gradually increasing scale and difficulty is sound in theory, but it's always appeared to me that the majority of players in GW2 are more or less casual. Those who want to raid will, and those who don't, won't. Not really a matter of easing them into it.

If you as a dps hit 20k dps its enough