Revert SB5 ini costs for core thief

[Cynz.9437]

@Filip.7463 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@Kachros.4751 said:

@Filip.7463 said:

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is

not

equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

What is the big difference between core and dd, that core should need buff mobility?

Core doesnt have 3 dodges, or perma swiftness, and overall always did less than DD in every aspect, id like core to keep the initiative from before the nerf if condi thief was slightly changed since its still quite unhealthy.

Why do u need perma swiftness while u have perma teleport?

DD doesnt have perma TP, even if its not massive the perma swiftness is really good which barely any class can have, adding that onto the rest it made DDs mobility unmatchable, im jus comparing the 2 specs.

Sb5 is like perma tpAlso, nearly all other classes have perma swiftness, except necro.

SB5 is not perma TP. The only thing that has perma TP in this game is hackers. SB5 even before nerf was rather costly spell that is why it was mostly used to decaps and nothing else. Your typical core thief build does not have perma swiftness. You get swiftness on steal (10sec on 25 sec CD; using which for swiftness would be absolute waste given it has high opportunity costs) and on consume plasma (assuming your stole one from mesmer). That is hardly perma swiftness. Before xpac many used inf. signet however since everything got bloated with condis you just can't have such luxury anymore. You could technically build for perma swiftness but you would be afk'ing at spawn with such build.

@apharma.3741 said:Theif has always been the most mobile class in the game to the point it's been detrimental to the class as it cannot be this mobile and have winning match ups all over. Infiltrators arrow is 5 years too late in it's nerf but this is not how I would have done it.

Take a page from revenant and add small 2-5s cool downs on weapon abilities, reduce the ini cost so you're not ini starved but likewise can't use every skill without thought. If this game has made anything apparent it is that back to back same skill usage has always been a problem when the skills are good, we see this on mesmer, rev, thief and other classes that had reset mechanics.

Mobility on other classes does need to be toned down a bit, when you can use 2 skills and get to the next node in 3s it's a bit much if you also enjoy very good 1v1 capabilites.

This has been discussed many times. Thing is, sure, they could do it however they would need to buff thief spells for it because many of them are absolutely lackluster on their own. I am not sure it would go so well. Also, i would like to disagree with "without thought" statement. Using every skill without thought on thief means dead thief. Please don't reflect your gameplay on other players.

@apharma.3741 said:Theif has always been the most mobile class in the game to the point it's been detrimental to the class as it cannot be this mobile and have winning match ups all over. Infiltrators arrow is 5 years too late in it's nerf but this is not how I would have done it.

Take a page from revenant and add small 2-5s cool downs on weapon abilities, reduce the ini cost so you're not ini starved but likewise can't use every skill without thought. If this game has made anything apparent it is that back to back same skill usage has always been a problem when the skills are good, we see this on mesmer, rev, thief and other classes that had reset mechanics.

Mobility on other classes does need to be toned down a bit, when you can use 2 skills and get to the next node in 3s it's a bit much if you also enjoy very good 1v1 capabilites.

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@ollbirtan.2915 said:Please, nerf teeef. Thank you!

This unironically, take stealth next.

@"Cynz.9437" said:I can somehow buy why DD or even DE could somehow "deserve" mobility shave (then again in the grand scheme of things it is questionable but it is topic for other discussion) HOWEVER there is absolutely no excuse for core thief mobility/resources to be hurt this badly. So my suggestion is, as long as elite spec is

not

equipped the Infiltrator's Arrow costs are reduced in pvp.

This is right but I want to be nerfed so hard playing the class actively sandbags my team.

You can already do it by playing core :P Join me :)

[Bazsi.2734]

This would set a bad precedent. If thief can have different initative costs tied to elite specialisations, and mirage already has a 50 enudrance penality PVP ONLY... we'd be getting dangerously close to a situation where anyone could demand any change that would tore into whatever little consistency this game has left. You solve this problem by not having 8 initative skills in the game period. Partial revert is worse than nothing, because if a-net grants you this, why would they not partial revert grenade kit for scrapper/core engi etc.... and we'd end up with a game where everything is an exception, a special case, a unique situation, and learning the game would become a long and frustrating experience that way less people would want to do.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Thief as a class has a lot of busted mechanics that lack meaningful counterplay, and is thus highly exploitable at high levels of play. Rather than reworking those bad mechanics anet instead just nerfs thief damage and/or ini costs every patch, making the class feel bad and less fun to play. It's really a shame.

SB5 nerf was probably the most heavy handed of these nerfs in the last year. Here we have shadowarts thief as meta running around, but rather than reworking SA and/or stealth mechanics we get SB5 ini cost nerf. And so the eternal problem of nerfing the wrong things continues until we are eventually left with a game where every class still has the root problems with their design functions for PvP in place, but every skill does 1 damage + has a 300 second cooldown + costs your classes entire resource. gee gee.

[Yasai.3549]

I strongly believe they should just rebalance the skill instead of reverting.

Make it a 600 range with 4 cost.